Defeating A Vest

[The Rabbi]

I used to poo-poo the idea that an assailant might be wearing a bullet proof vest (or whatever the term of art is today).

But I recently asked a Metro SWAT officer how often he runs into that and the answer was that is isn't uncommon. So, given that the likelihood of any of that is slim, very slim, I wonder what an effective response might be.

For a 9mm, loading the 3rd or 4th round with +P ball should yield good results. You could do something similar with .357mag or .357Sig. For .45acp people are probably sad outta luck.

[Guest someguy12341]

One word for ya - Bayonet.

[The Rabbi]

One word for ya - Bayonet.

My 2 1/2 Smith is defective because they didnt include a lug for the bayonet.

But i have another word: Headshot.

[Guest someguy12341]

Yeah, well, there is that option...

[Guest canynracer]

shoot em in da nutz

[molonlabetn]

^^^^^^^^^^

I'll second the nut-shot... any effort to prevent criminals from breeding is ok by me, plus, that'll be a pretty sure 'one-shot stop'. Head shot rates a close second, if the former doesn't cause immediate cessation of the threat.

[TGO David]

Mozambique Drill.

Shooting them in the pelvic girdle is another great way to drop them but I'm not sold on the idea that it impacts the central nervous system instantaneously enough to immediately halt the threat.

[Cannon Fodder]

Pelvis or hip area.

[Guest bkelm18]

Double tap. One in the nutz, one in the noggin. That way you can be absolutely sure he will either die or be unable to reproduce.

[creeky]

Again... fresh baked DOUBLE chocolate chip cookies.

It'll stop anyone right in their tracks.

[SkWaShDeM]

Or just use that .308 AR-15 you've got in the shop with some 168gr FMJ. That should manage to get through a thug's vest at close range.

In all seriousness though... Mozambique drill.

[strickj]

Im cornfused:confused: if you shoot him in man land,wouldnt you be shooting him in the head

[Cannon Fodder]

Depends on which head he is using to think with.

[strickj]

the same one we all use to think with!

[Guest bulletproof]

shoot em in da nutz

Damn! you beat me to it.

[Guest ETS_Inc]

Two to the chest, one to the head. Of course, if you carry a 5-shot J-frame, you better hope that he doesn't have a vest-wearing buddy or two.

[Magiccarpetrides]

You could just do what I do and carry a FN FiveSeven its proven to Defeat Level II body armor with a trauma plate and makes a nasty wound channel. It also wont overpenetrate like oh say a CZ 52. The 20rds is a nice plus when dealing with people over 250lbs. Fully loaded (20rds) less then 2lbs. Just make sure your using SS192 or SS195 and not the ballistic tipped SS197

[Guest SUNTZU]

In the home, 12 gauge with buckshot to the legs, head, slugs center mass. Outside the home, pelvic area, legs, head. Question to those who know: What will a center mass shot do to someone in class 2 and class 3 body armor? Not the stuff SWAT entry teams use, but police issue with and without trauma plates?

If someone came at me with body armor, get to cover, shoot to slow down, make them seek cover, retreat if possible, I guess.

[Magiccarpetrides]

If you hit anyone with a slug, body armor or not they are going down and fast. You could use a 12 guage with flechette as they would penetrate most any armor up to dragon skin or you could use those wicked "terminator" rounds that fire 2 3/4 oz slugs at once. When thats not practical though the FN is nice or any large caliber handgun should at least put the BG on his a$$.

[molonlabetn]

Level II doesn't include a trauma plate, and none of the commercially available 5.7 ammunition will defeat level III, or anything with a trauma plate.

Even without a vest, I'd be more worried about under-penetration, the tests I have seen show only 4"-6" gel penetration in bare gel. I dunno... unless you've got a rifle, or restricted ammo for the Five-seveN, head shots would still be the most effective.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Maybe im thinking of level III then. If you look at any tests of the 5.7 x 28mm it will defeat bodyarmor with a trauma plate in SS192 and SS195 (only difference is SS195 is lead free). FN of course will not advertise it as such due to the ATF's constant crackdown. That is the ONLY reason they quit importing SS192. you can get more and accurate info from www.fivesevenforum.com The only ammo that sucks is the Hornday SS197 (blue tip) as its only good for plinking and rabbits. Its soft tip wont penetrate much of anything even at 1900fps. Of course it is better for FiveSeven fans that people buy into the AR15 forums slander so that the ATF doesnt crack down on the ammo again. I also own a PS90 which I bought because I thought it was "cool" but I will readily admit that rifle lacking Fully Auto makes it almost worthless compared to an AR15 or AK. For civilian use the FiveSeven pistol is a much more useable/useful platform.

Useful link with 5.7 x 28mm projectile info http://fivesevenforum.net/showthread.php?t=7228

Edited February 25, 2008 by Magiccarpetrides

[Fallguy]

But it's against the law to wear a vest while committing certain crimes. So surely no person committing armed robbery would want another felony charge on them! </sarcasm>

39-17-1323 Commission of certain offenses while wearing a body vest.

[molonlabetn]

All of the reports which I have seen, private and official, have shown that SS192 and SS195 will not penetrate Level III... some will penetrate Level IIIa (which is soft armor), but only under certain conditions.

[Guest canynracer]

But it's against the law to wear a vest while committing certain crimes. So surely no person committing armed robbery would want another felony charge on them! </sarcasm>

39-17-1323 Commission of certain offenses while wearing a body vest.

just the fact that they had to make that a "Law" is dumb...that means some idiot honestly tried to get out of it.... like warning labels... they are only there cause morons do stupid azz chit...the law is even WORDED dumb...like you are gonna say "Hmmmm, I didnt even KNOW I had that on???"

(a) A person commits an offense who knowingly wears a body vest, when acting either alone or with one (1) or more other persons, while committing:

(1) Any felony whose statutory elements involve the use or threat of violence to a human being;

(2) Any burglary, car-jacking, theft of a motor vehicle, or arson; or

(3) Any felony offense involving a controlled substance.

( For purposes of this section, a “body vest” means a bullet-resistant soft armor providing, as a minimum standard, the level of protection known as threat level I which shall mean at least seven (7) layers of bullet-resistant material providing protection from three (3) shots of one hundred fifty-eight-grain lead ammunition fired from a .38 caliber handgun at a velocity of eight hundred fifty feet (850¢) per second.

© The unlawful wearing of a body vest is a Class E felony.

(d) Nothing in this section shall prohibit the possession of a body vest for lawful purposes.

(e) Any sentence imposed under this section shall run consecutively to any other sentence imposed for the conviction of the underlying offense.

[mdmoseley]

They told us in our HCP class that if a chest shot doesn't take him down then shoot for the pelvis. Chances are you will hit the femral artery and they will bleed out before getting to a hospital. Not to mention it's a debilitating shot.