Do Glocks Suck or Not

[Guest slow ride]

I reload for all my Glocks, and the non-fully supported chamber isn't an issue.

I don't max my charges out, I load on the mild side, and use a Lee factory crimp die to take out the "bulge".

If the chamber is a problem for some people, there are plenty of great barrel makers that make very accurate alternatives to factory barrels. Lone Wolf Dist, and KKM to name a couple. I've heard that the KKMs are a little more expensive than the Lone Wolf barrels ($200 vs. $100), but sometimes you get what you pay for.

Lone Wolf Dist. carries all of these barrels, and alot more options for people that want to "customize".

[K191145]

I reload for all my Glocks, and the non-fully supported chamber isn't an issue.

I don't max my charges out, I load on the mild side, and use a Lee factory crimp die to take out the "bulge".

If the chamber is a problem for some people, there are plenty of great barrel makers that make very accurate alternatives to factory barrels. Lone Wolf Dist, and KKM to name a couple. I've heard that the KKMs are a little more expensive than the Lone Wolf barrels ($200 vs. $100), but sometimes you get what you pay for.

Lone Wolf Dist. carries all of these barrels, and alot more options for people that want to "customize".

Well I've heard the pros and cons, there is some exposed casing under the rim at the feed ramp on my G21 barrel, and I have shot and keep it loaded with Horaday 230gr +P HPs. I don't recall any warnings about +Ps in the manual.

I tried to take some photo's but my cheap digital camera doesn't take good close ups.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

I reload for all my Glocks, and the non-fully supported chamber isn't an issue.

I don't max my charges out, I load on the mild side, and use a Lee factory crimp die to take out the "bulge".

If the chamber is a problem for some people, there are plenty of great barrel makers that make very accurate alternatives to factory barrels. Lone Wolf Dist, and KKM to name a couple. I've heard that the KKMs are a little more expensive than the Lone Wolf barrels ($200 vs. $100), but sometimes you get what you pay for.

Lone Wolf Dist. carries all of these barrels, and alot more options for people that want to "customize".

This pic will help you discern the difference in chamber support among popular pistols. Look at the 6 o'clock portion of the case...more support = less likelihood of case rupture. Most of the time this happens with reloads but it does happen with factory ammo on occasion. Hence the eternal debate over the value of this feature

This is to show some people on here what you guys are talking about

[Guest Nativoffla]

I have a Glock-34 tactical/practical, that I use for (IDPA) competition shooting. It has never missed a tick, as for a 9mm it's highest marks are accuracy, reliability and has moderate recoil, is inexpensive to shoot (a big plus)

Because of its size 8.15" length makes it impractical for CC, but for home Defense/Duty and Competition it is an Ace. my worth

[Marswolf]

Thanks GLOCKGUY for the photo. Some are a bit confusing because it is hard to pick out unsupported areas from reflections in the feed ramp.

Here are a few more pictures of the feed ramps.

G22

M&P 40

Glock feed ramp blowout.

A few blowouts and bulges.

[Guest TNDixieGirl]

wow, so do those photos represent what is called a design flaw in the glock?

[Im Neero]

It's not really a design flaw. It's on purpose, it helps to ensure reliable feeding. And increases the chance that the gun blows up, but you can't have your cake and eat it too (unless you buy and M&P).

[Marswolf]

Lots of guns, particularly older design guns and small lower pressured round guns, like the P3AT, have a partially supported chamber. With the surface area of the unsupported section and generally less pressure in older rounds, you easily got by with it, even with pretty hot reloads. I have shot some extreme overpressure rounds in my 9mm Beretta 92SB. It was unpleasant but everything held together.

With the development of the 40 S&W, the pressures went up and the unsupported surface area tended to increase with round circumference. The Glock 40s were originally designed as a 9mm and then modified. Compare this to the H&K USP and M&Ps that were basically designed as a 40 and then modified to handle the weaker and smaller 9mm. What was a reasonable design for 9mm is pushing it a bit for 40 S&W. Other manufacturers came up with other ways to ensure feed reliability. Glock, as noted, did modify the ramp a bit sacrificing feed reliability a bit for some safety benefits. They recognized the problem.

I've shot some rather hot rounds in the USP 40 without worry. The round is almost completely supported. That is one reason why I traded in my G23 for a USP 40. Other matters like the ability to de-cock and re-cock SA/DA capability plus some other internal differences make up the other reasons.

Is the chamber support on a Glock a design flaw? Well, my background is engineering and I don't think it is a major problem on 9mm and 45 ACP. But I do have a problem with it in the 40s. I haven't examined the 357 SIG, so I can't say about it.

Glock says to not use reloads. But H&K says that too. That's very good advice for the Glocks unless you are a careful reloader. But if you do that, Glocks will stay together and feed well. But so will USPs, XDs, SIGs and M&Ps among others with less worry. You can blow them up, but you have to be awfully careless or foolish to do so.

[Guest EasilyObsessed]

Now, I may be wrong, but I think the M&P is made either with or without the takedown latch. I may be completely incorrect on that. I'd like to see Tungsten or other current or former M&P owners chime in. I know that when I looked at some M&Ps, I didn't see that latch. May have just been looking in the wrong place.

There are not any models available without the sear disconnect. You are probably thinking of the magazine disconnect, which is optional.

The sear disconnect is in the same place on every M&P I have owned/seen.

I have disassembled the M&P one of two ways.

1. Clear the gun and lock back the slide. Flip the lever to disconnect the sear. Rotate the takedown lever. Release the slide.

2. Clear the gun and lock back the slide. Rotate the takedown lever. Release the slide. Pull the trigger.

If I can remember, I will experiment tonight and see there are any other ways to break it down. Someone mentioned the slide having to be locked back to flip the takedown lever, and I do not recall this but I will check.

Also, just so as to avoid any confusion...what I am calling the takedown lever is located above the trigger. What I am calling the sear disconnect is the small yellow painted lever located just in front of the sear on the inside of the gun.

[Marswolf]

I guess the real question becomes do you have to lock back the slide to rotate the takedown lever. Looks to me like you do. If you do, there is no reason to pull the trigger before racking the slide.

People get into patterns that they don't think about that much. Rack the slide - pull the trigger - pull the slide back slightly with the right (or left) hand - and push down the slide release thingy. Mindlessly mess up the order of the first two and it goes boom. That's why it happens with experienced users who have done it hundreds of times.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Marswolf

[Mike.357]

People get into patterns that they don't think about that much. Rack the slide - pull the trigger - pull the slide back slightly with the right (or left) hand - and push down the slide release thingy. Mindlessly mess up the order of the first two and it goes boom. That's why it happens with experienced users who have done it hundreds of times.

That IMHO is why people shoot themselves when cleaning Glocks. There was no mention made of dropping the magazine and checking that there is no cartridge in the chamber. Those are steps 1 and 3 in the takedown process.

[Guest SUNTZU]

I have the Glock 21SF. I have about 1000 rounds through it, with no problems. I have to say, I really enjoy this pistol. Do I care if it gets dinged up or scratched? No. I feel comfortable with the safeties, the first of which is me. Do I think that it is the end-all, be-all of handguns? Definitely not. But for my budget, and the reliability I have had in the past with Glock, and discussing the 21SF with Marswolf and deerslayer, I went with it, and am glad I did. I would love to own an H & K, but don't have money to spend on it or a 1911....right now. Anyhoo, thats my two cents.

MMMMM.....Kool-aid.

[K191145]

That IMHO is why people shoot themselves when cleaning Glocks. There was no mention made of dropping the magazine and checking that there is no cartridge in the chamber. Those are steps 1 and 3 in the takedown process.

It's simply a habit of mine to always lock the slide back and visually inspect the chamber, ease the slide back and point it to the floor and pull the trigger before I take it down, of course with no magizine. Even if a round fell off the table and fell into the chamber without me seeing that, all that would happen is that I would make a hole in the floor and ruin a pair of Froot of the Looms.

It's hard to imagine some one shooting themselves but I guess it happens.

[Guest BigJ45]

I voted glocks suck because every time I shoot one the slide lays the web of my hand open and I bleed all over someones gun.

[Marswolf]

Interestingly enough that happened to me once with the G26. I was talking to someone about it the other day. I have no idea why that happened. I just packed up all the guns I had at the range and went home. When stuff like that happens, it's time to stop and think about it.

[Guest Phantom6]

That's the part that gets me riled. Most PD's put out to bid and the lowest bid gets the contract. Often done by the city manager who probably couldn't tell a Glock from his elbow.

Most cops aren't "gun guys", to them the pistol is just another piece of gear on their belt and the one they probably handle the least as well.

It's nonsense to think Glocks must be great because cops use them. A lot of them drive Crown Victorias too.

Well, speaking from a bidding manufacturer's viewpoint you need to understand that even when the City Manager's office is taking care of handling the bid, the bid specifications have to originate somewhere and that is normally with the supervisors of the actual users of the particular tool contract being bid out but otherwise, I couldn't agree more. Even when departments can taylor their bids so that only a specific piece of equipment will fit the bid they often choose Glocks because of the tremendous deals that Glock provides with extra mags, free armorer's schools etc. It is an adequate tool that is dirt cheep and comes with all kinds of "extras".

There are a lot of other firearms purchases I would choose to make first..... like the Beretta M-96 Centurion in .40 with 2 magazines that I just picked up for a song in 98% condition.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Good, Phantom, then you won't need your SeeCamp, when can we meet FTF?

[Guest EasilyObsessed]

If I can remember, I will experiment tonight and see there are any other ways to break it down. Someone mentioned the slide having to be locked back to flip the takedown lever, and I do not recall this but I will check.

Just checked on my M&P9, the slide does have to be locked back to flip down the takedown lever. It cannot be broken down like a Glock by only partially pulling back the slide.

[deerslayer]

Do either of you know how old the Glock is in your pics? Manufacture date, generation two or three? Just curious.

Also, I confirmed today that an M&P CAN be dryfired and then field stripped. However, I also found the sear deactivator that was mentioned earlier. My friend apparently didn't read his owner's manual, and didn't know he could do this. The only problem was that he didn't have anything to do it with except his keys, and they were all too rounded to grip the thing.

[Guest woodsltc]

Bottom line -- Glocks go bang when you pull the trigger. They are not pretty, they don't have a high collectors value, they simply work when you need them.

I like older, blued S&W and Colt revolvers and love to shoot them. But, when something goes "bump in the night" , it's my Glock-23 that I reach for.

Don

[Guest darkstar]

Do either of you know how old the Glock is in your pics? Manufacture date, generation two or three? Just curious.

Also, I confirmed today that an M&P CAN be dryfired and then field stripped. However, I also found the sear deactivator that was mentioned earlier. My friend apparently didn't read his owner's manual, and didn't know he could do this. The only problem was that he didn't have anything to do it with except his keys, and they were all too rounded to grip the thing.

Hey Deer, you can use the little post thing that is attached that changes out the backstrap, turn it a quarter turn and pull out. It's right on the base of the grip....or at least my M&P 45 has that...I'd guess they all have that?

[deerslayer]

Ahh--will investigate tomorrow. Thanks for the tip.

[Im Neero]

Yup, the rod that holds the interchangeable palmswell in is also designed to flip the sear deactivation lever. It's all James bondy and stuff.

[Marswolf]

Do either of you know how old the Glock is in your pics? Manufacture date, generation two or three? Just curious.

I really don't know. I got the pictures from someone else. A big Glock fan here in this area (he carries a 21 SF) told me about the 40 S&W improvement in the Glocks but I don't recall if it was gen 2 or 3. I think 3. My G23 was a gen 3. I have some pictures I took of a G30, but there doesn't seem to be a problem with them in the KaBoom department because of low cartridge pressures.

Back to police departments. Generally the department will put together an approved list. Remember that the cost of the duty weapons generally comes out of the department budget, so it becomes a balancing act of what is acceptable and what you can afford. Glock makes a gun that does the job but is relatively inexpensive to make, so they can give a good price. Many departments allow the officer to buy his own duty handgun if he wishes. Many more USPs show up in those departments. Some small departments don't buy weapons for their officers. Lots of Rugers in those. If I was in one of those departments and on a budget, I'd probably buy an XD.

Apart from cost, Glocks have some other advantages over some other competitors. First is the lack of a manual safety. An officer can absolutely not forget to remove it. I have a friend who is a retired chief. He ordered his department to never set the manual safety on their duty handguns. Another matter is the lack of a hammer that scares the public. For some reason this became a big deal about the time of the Miami shootout. Glock got in the market early with a reliable, economical and non-frightening handgun .I suspect that is why other handguns without hammers, or at least exposed hammers, have increased so much in recent years.

And then there is the social inertia factor. That's a reason departments used 38 special revolvers and 1911s for so long. I suspect that is why a lot of departments still use Glocks.

[Mike.357]

In someones honor I resurrect this thread (thinking about you buddy)