M39- 91/30

[bajabuc]

really...isn't a Finn M39 just a sporterized 91/30?...sorta like cutting off the front of a Kar98 stock.

[Guest TnValleyBulletman]

No, these two rifles share the same action and are chambered for the same rd but other than that they are quite a bit different.

[bajabuc]

The actions are Russian the stocks are modified Russian, the barrels are Finn or other manufacturers Triggers are Finn but the guard and mag are Russian. Does "sporterizing by a government" mean it's not sporterized? My ancestry is Finn...during the war Russians were fair game.

Edited May 6, 2011 by bajabuc
just 'cause

[Garufa]

The the only thing Russian on an M-39 is the receiver and bolt.

Finnish M39

[bajabuc]

The Model 1939

Thank you...I stand corrected. I still think they're sporterized Mosins

Edited May 6, 2011 by bajabuc

[Garufa]

Wait 'till you shoot one.

[Jonnin]

The actions are Russian the stocks are modified Russian, the barrels are Finn or other manufacturers Triggers are Finn but the guard and mag are Russian. Does "sporterizing by a government" mean it's not sporterized? My ancestry is Finn...during the war Russians were fair game.

Well take that even deeper... what is "sporterized" anyway? To me, any long gun that is not fully automatic *is* for fun/sporting purposes if we are talking "sporting" vs "military" categories, on the grounds that "sniper" rifles are just uber hunting rifles. A 100 year old military BA gun is... a hunting rifle (a sporting rifle), whether someone has chopped it to pieces or left it alone.

Does it matter who did the chopping? I think it does. Upgrading 10k guns in a warehouse with the same parts and same process to make them modern is a military operation. A guy with a hacksaw, welder, and some spare parts is something else, and the two must be distinguished.

I do not think this is a true sporter (under the term as it is commonly used). Its just one of many examples of a government that has a pile of parts (captured, left over, whatever the source) that were put to good use in a new design --- the same thing happened several times during the world wars and smaller conflicts.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Ok. They are not "sportsterized" per se. What the Finns did is this: They asked themselves who would want to attack them and take over? Obviously, the USSR. Knowing this, they decided to have firearms which would shoot 7.62x54r, instead of another caliber. Hey, why not used captured ammo? So, the Finns, being a part of the former Russian Empire, had older arsenal of 1891 and 1891/10 Mosins. These firearms were reliable. However, trench warfare had proven them too long to use properly (the design was for the older "stand in rank and volley" warfare. In addition, weather created special needs for the military (ski troops.) So. the Finns had to come up with firearms they could produce locally which used Soviet ammo, and better fit their army's needs. In addition, the Finns had little funding to buy or build new arms with. With this in mind, the Finns went on an international buying spree, getting as many old WWI captured Mosins from the likes of France, and other European nations. They were cheap to get.

So. They used the chamber, bolt, and magazine. They made their own designs. The M27, M28, M28/30, and then the M39. The M39 took the knowledge and science of the late 1930's and fused them with a 1891 design. Heavier and stronger barrels, Finn wood stocks (local wood, which would not crack in colder weather), better stock design, better sights, better bayonets, better triggers, and better magazine feeding.

So, in effect, sort of sportsterizing, if you count removing everything but the chamber, bolt, and external part of the magazine as a sportster.

I own a 1981/30 and a M39. The M39 is heavier, the action"smoother," and is far more accurate. If hunting, the M39 would be a quite effective deer gun.

"Does it matter who did the chopping? I think it does. Upgrading 10k guns in a warehouse with the same parts and same process to make them modern is a military operation. A guy with a hacksaw, welder, and some spare parts is something else, and the two must be distinguished."

+1 Jonnin

And considering the paint job on a Mosin in another thread, there is a BIG quality difference between the two...

[1gewehr]

Typically, I think that most people think of a 'sporterized' rifle as one which has had military features removed. The M39 had military features ADDED! One could argue that the Mosin 91/30 is the sporterized rifle as it has no bayonet lug, a lightweight barrel, thin, almost useless handguards, and a more delicate construction.

[StPatrick]

Wait 'till you shoot one.

There is no comparison whatsoever, and that's before you consider that the Finns (and the Belgians, a little bit) built their barrels to handle captured 7.62x54r machine gun ammo, which Mosins could not fire.