Training Required (To Say The Least)

[MarkInNashville]

I just saw this on USA(!)carry.com. I think this underscores that while competitive shooting sports do not have anyone shooting back at you that you would certainly be more prepared than this. I pray to God that if I am ever involved in a fire-fight that it does NOT go down like this one (or at least if it does that its not caught on camera !

Tennessee Market Shootout Highlights Need for Training

[JAB]

Well, in the end, the victims were unharmed, the would-be assailants were repelled and any damage done is repairable. Maybe there was a lot of luck involved and maybe not but, all in all, it looks like a good outcome was achieved, lack of training or not. Sure, it wasn't pretty and he didn't exactly come off looking like 'an operator' but the would-be victim got the job done.

I'm not entirely defending everything he did. He seems to have been shooting in the general direction of where his coworker/buddy/whatever was and I guess the shots that went through the windows could have injured someone on the outside (although, honestly, how much energy would those bullets have left after passing through what appears to be security glass?) but I wasn't in the situation and have no idea as to his awareness of his surroundings. Maybe from his angle he could tell that no one was outside the windows and that he wasn't going to shoot the other guy. Either way, 'trained' LEOs, etc. seem to send shots wild pretty often if they are involved in shootouts. So, again, I'd say the guy did pretty well.

Edited May 2, 2011 by JAB

[NRA]

I bet someone s*^t their pants

[Guest Jon]

I think he could have done a much better job but then like the other poster said who knows maybe he did know what he was attempting to do. From the video he kinda looks like he is firing blind from behind his cover. He is lucky no passer by's got hit.

All in all he did get the job done.

[AMSting]

I cannot agree that the ends justify the means. He did survive, and no one got hurt, but there are so many things that should have been done better. It looks like he was not chambered, and when he racked the slide he dropped the mag. Carrying chambered or not is a choice, but practicing racking the slide without dropping the mag is a no-brainer. I also don't see how he could possibly see where he was shooting at least half the time.

I know this sounds like armchair quarterbacking, but this guys needs a lot more practice. I hope I never get into one of these situations, but if I do I expect my practicing to come through.

[JayC]

I cannot agree that the ends justify the means. He did survive, and no one got hurt, but there are so many things that should have been done better. It looks like he was not chambered, and when he racked the slide he dropped the mag. Carrying chambered or not is a choice, but practicing racking the slide without dropping the mag is a no-brainer. I also don't see how he could possibly see where he was shooting at least half the time.

I know this sounds like armchair quarterbacking, but this guys needs a lot more practice. I hope I never get into one of these situations, but if I do I expect my practicing to come through.

I guess carrying without one in the chamber is a choice, but it's a stupid choice If you're not comfortable carrying with one in the chamber you need to get a different gun, or more training. The time needed to rack a slide is too long when you need the gun to go bang... not to mention the gun is useless until you manage to rack it, while possible fighting with bad guys.

As for training, I agree completely... if all you do is go to the range and shoot at paper targets in your aisle, you're not helping yourself prepare for a real fire fight... Most police departments learned this a long time ago.

[Guest mikedwood]

That was pretty bad and unsafe as well. Thankfully no one was hurt or killed.

I would like to say that some, maybe even most people don't want to hit someone else when they shoot. Like in these firefights in war zones where they fight all day 300 or even thousands of people on each side and maybe 3 dead after a days fighting.

It didn't look to me like anyone there actually wanted to shoot anyone else.

Could be 100% wrong just my opinion.

[Caster]

Wow, that's pretty sad. I don't care if he is alive and they left running, that was bad. Flagrant disregard for public safety.

[JAB]

My point is that all the training in the world may or may not help when the excrement hits the rotary cooling device. Remember the Sean Bell shooting in New York? Cops fired off fifty rounds at a car, not at specific individuals, and at least one of those rounds went through the window of a train station a block away and, according to reports of the incident, barely missed a bystander and two Port Authority officers. These were 'trained' LEOs but when the shooting started, they seem to have simply cut loose and started shooting just like the clerk in that store.

Also, remember:

Police Shoot Man 43 Times In Tennessee | News One

(I don't fault the police for shooting the guy - he was begging for it - but 59 rounds fired with 43 hitting the perp equals 16 rounds that did not hit their target and that could well have struck an innocent bystander.)

and this:

Officer shoots at dog, injuring man on porch » The Commercial Appeal

and this:

Reality TV Show Filmed as 7-Year-Old Aiyana Stanley-Jones Was Killed in Detroit Police Raid - ABC News

So, I say that the guy didn't do everything 'right' (in fact, he probably didn't do much of anything technically 'right') and this is definitely a good example of how not to do certain things. Still, he seems to have done at least as well as the 'trained' LEOs in the linked incidents. Heck, unlike the 'trained' LEOs in the incidences in the last two articles linked, at least he didn't injure or even kill an innocent bystander. And the assailants stopped their attack and fled. Therefore, again, I'd say he did okay.

[vontar]

Some times, it comes down to luck that an innocent bystander is not hit. Once fired you own the bullet and are responsible for it. If it goes though a brick wall and hits a bystander, you still own it.

Train, practice, know your weapon.

Plan, plan what you might encounter. Plan for different things that might go down in your common areas, such as your home, place of business and your car. The better you are prepared in places like that, the better you would be able to react in a strange environment as well.

[flyanything]

Complete adrenalin rush. If anyone, besides a seasoned vet is in the same situation, it could go down in a similar fashion. No matter how many times we play certain sanarios out in our heads, in a real life critical situation you will be in a panic. Training,Training, and then a Lot More Training for anyone who carrys a gun in my opinion. Of course correct training is more important, and I've seen my share of so called experts (according to them) training people, who will eventually get someone hurt. If you think your an expert, at least buy a video, and learn something.