Copperhead encounter

[Guest mosinon]

Today I was walking with my neighbor, who I'll call Josh because that is his name, on the walking trail that runs behind my house.

About half a mile in we see a smallish snake on the trail. It has the right head shape to be venomous, the right coloring, and it is, in fact, a deadly snake. But it is a small deadly snake, maybe 9 inches long.

In my pocket I am carrying a nice kershaw and, thanks to the recent hail storm, there is no shortage of readily available clubs. The snake just sits there on the trail, moving slowly, so it is an easy kill.

Slow moving snake full of poison? The next move is clear! We stepped over the snake and kept on walking. Nothing bad happened.

[Guest bkelm18]

Copperheads really aren't deadly. They'll just make you wish they were.

[Erik88]

you sure it wasn't a water moccasin?

[Guest mosinon]

you sure it wasn't a water moccasin?

In retrospect I think it was a cobra!

[Guest nicemac]

Copperheads really aren't deadly. They'll just make you wish they were.

Death of Chattanooga Man Bitten by Copperhead Raises Questions|Rob Stadler's Info 2 Go|Atlanta's STAR 94

[Guest bkelm18]

Death of Chattanooga Man Bitten by Copperhead Raises Questions|Rob Stadler's Info 2 Go|Atlanta's STAR 94

Yep, that's my point. Death from a Copperhead bite is extremely rare, almost non-existent. In fact, anti-venom is rarely given due to the side-effects of the anti-venom often being worse than those of the bite itself.

[Troutburger]

How far did the snake chase you down the trail? Are you sure it doesn't know where you live? I bet its getting its posse together for a night time attack...

[JAB]

Yep, that's my point. Death from a Copperhead bite is extremely rare, almost non-existent. In fact, anti-venom is rarely given due to the side-effects of the anti-venom often being worse than those of the bite itself.

Instances of being killed by a mugger in Knoxville may be rare, too, but I prefer not to take chances with that. Instances of private citizens needing a firearm for self defense outside their homes are probably rare but I still plan to renew my HCP when the time comes. Instances of people being killed in home invasions are 'rare' but that doesn't keep us all from having our SD firearms ready, just in case. Personally, I'm not playing around with 'probably' when it is followed closely by the words, "won't kill me."

As I have said, before, I am not going to go out hunting snakes to kill but I'm not shedding any tears over a dead snake, either - particularly a venomous one.

[Murgatroy]

Are you sure it wasn't a black panther?

[Guest mosinon]

Are you sure it wasn't a black panther?

The only reason I'm sure it was not a black panther is because I had my camera with me an could've taken a high res photo. Everyone knows you can't get a hi res photo of a black panther in TN. It violates the laws of physics.

Edited May 3, 2011 by mosinon

[Oh Shoot]

The only reason I'm sure it was not a black panther is because I had my camera with me an could've taken a high res photo. Everyone knows you get a hi res photo of a black panther in TN. It violates the laws of physics.

Few people have extensive enough TN Black Panther research to reach an insight like that.

- OS

[Guest mosinon]

Instances of being killed by a mugger in Knoxville may be rare, too, but I prefer not to take chances with that. Instances of private citizens needing a firearm for self defense outside their homes are probably rare but I still plan to renew my HCP when the time comes. Instances of people being killed in home invasions are 'rare' but that doesn't keep us all from having our SD firearms ready, just in case. Personally, I'm not playing around with 'probably' when it is followed closely by the words, "won't kill me."

As I have said, before, I am not going to go out hunting snakes to kill but I'm not shedding any tears over a dead snake, either - particularly a venomous one.

Ah, well why both are possibilities they are possibilities of different magnitudes. Less than 20 people die of snakebites in the US per year. If you are worried about snakes you are worried about one in 20 million type stuff. If you are worried about those odds, stop bathing, cause the shower will kill you long before a snake does. It just isn't a realistic fear. Though those things creep me out so I get what you are saying.

[jughead]

a rattlesnake MIGHT not kill u but the tissue loss is quite large on the 2 i have seen

[enfield]

Just for the record, here's a Black Panther:

Don't confuse the two!

[Farman]

How about this Black Momba I found in my yard.

It was actually two Black Kingsnakes that were mating. Love to see these in the yard, they eat rattlers and coppermouths.

[Guest BenderBendingRodriguez]

It was actually two Black Kingsnakes that were mating.

I thought this was supposed to be a family site! Get that filth out of here!

[Caster]

I thought this was supposed to be a family site! Get that filth out of here!

Right, take your reptilian porn to the V forum.

[JAB]

Less than 20 people die of snakebites in the US per year...It just isn't a realistic fear.

Not a realistic fear? Tell that to the 20 people per year (by your own statement) who are 100% dead. That also doesn't take into account injury, medical treatement and so on that might not end in death.

I'm not trying to start a big argument. I just truly cannot understand why people who would not hesitate to swat a mosquito, smash a wasp or crush a tick get all worked up when someone suggests killing a snake - particularly a venomous one.

Maybe I am just particularly annoyed, right now. I went to gather eggs the other day and there were no eggs in the section of the coop where my Bantams are kept. I had missed gathering eggs the day before and the little Bantam hen is a good layer so I was surprised to see no eggs. Then I noticed that not only were there no eggs, the golf balls I keep in the nest boxes (to encourage the chickens to lay there) were also gone from that section. Almost had to be a snake or two that got the eggs - I guess they are starting early this year. At least it (or they) swallowed the golf balls, too - meaning that is probably the end of that (or those) particular egg-stealer(s).

Edited May 3, 2011 by JAB

[hkusp40cal]

Maybe they don't want to get charged with a crime. It is illegal to kill a native snake in TN.

[vontar]

Maybe they don't want to get charged with a crime. It is illegal to kill a native snake in TN.

Only if you don't have a permit to kill them. I am still asking the question, were do you apply for the permit?

Since the law states it is only illegal to kill them with out the permit, it implies there is a permit available.

In Tennessee, it is illegal to harm, kill, remove from the wild, or possess native snakes taken from the wild without the proper permits.

I want one of these permits.

[Guest mosinon]

Not a realistic fear? Tell that to the 20 people per year (by your own statement) who are 100% dead. That also doesn't take into account injury, medical treatement and so on that might not end in death.

I'm not trying to start a big argument. I just truly cannot understand why people who would not hesitate to swat a mosquito, smash a wasp or crush a tick get all worked up when someone suggests killing a snake - particularly a venomous one.

Maybe I am just particularly annoyed, right now. I went to gather eggs the other day and there were no eggs in the section of the coop where my Bantams are kept. I had missed gathering eggs the day before and the little Bantam hen is a good layer so I was surprised to see no eggs. Then I noticed that not only were there no eggs, the golf balls I keep in the nest boxes (to encourage the chickens to lay there) were also gone from that section. Almost had to be a snake or two that got the eggs - I guess they are starting early this year. At least it (or they) swallowed the golf balls, too - meaning that is probably the end of that (or those) particular egg-stealer(s).

Realistic fear doesn't mean it never happens. It means there are a lot of things you should be worried about first. For example, do you drive a car? More deadly than snakes. Take a shower? More deadly than snakes? Get bit by mosquitos? More deadly than snakes. Have a dog? More deadly than snakes.

The point is that the threat is over perceived. If people responded to the threat of dogs the way they responded to the threat of snakes you'd kill your dog. If you responded to the threat of showers the same way you responded to snakes you'd be very stinky.

And my stats were wrong. Only about 6 people die per year from snake bites in the US. And most of those people were trying to kill the snake. The best advice, the safest thing, is to leave the frigging things alone.

On the other hand, if they are stupid enough to eat a golf ball, well, tough on them.

[Guest db99wj]

Funny, the snake argument keeps on going, same arguments everytime. Also, due to increased water levels on this side of the state, a lot more people are coming across snakes in areas that you typically don't see them.

Snakes don't really bother me, I am not a fan of spiders, they are evil, my wife on the other hand......, anyway, we run across a snake or two in our activities and here is what I do, right or wrong. At Reelfoot Lake, my moms house. 95% of the time, the snake in question is non-venomous water snake. We just let them keep on moving, they are typically trying to get away from us, we oblige them. We have been on our beach area and have had them swim within feet of the kids, I just stay calm and let them go on by, no since in panicking my wife or the kids, they will be gone in a few seconds. If I see them coming, we will get them out of the way, or try to convince them to turnaround and go the other way with a boat paddle, spinner bait, stick, etc. They actually say on one of the local area websites that you can catch them, they will try to bite you, like once, then they will be done with that and you can handle them, and that it doesn't hurt that bad. I for one am not a big fan of pain. Anyway.

Out in the woods, like near the Wolf River, Shelby Farms, other trails. We look at them, we watch them, we leave them be. They move on, we move on.

In my yard, this has only happened a few times and we live in a heavily populated neighborhood. Due to small kids and a dumb dog, I will go get the shovel, pick the snake up, usually a garter snake, and dispose of it down in the storm drain. I have killed one, due to it appearing to be a venomous snake. He looked a bit like a copperhead, but he might have just been acting like one, he was a little too aggressive for my taste, so he became food for something else. Right or wrong, I don't know, but for the safety of my kids, I think it was the right decision. If it was a copperhead for example, out in the wild, it would be fun to look at, but I wouldn't dispose of it in that manor, we would just move on.

[JAB]

Maybe they don't want to get charged with a crime. It is illegal to kill a native snake in TN.

I have posted, more than once (and am not going to look it up, again) the section from the TN code annotated which states that it is legal to kill any animal that is on one's property and destroying property. Animals that are considered large game (such as deer, bear, etc.) require a permit. Animals other than large game do not. Therefore, a snake that is in my chicken coop (i.e. on my property) and eating the eggs (destroying property) is legally fair game by my non-lawyer interpretation.

I have also posted, more than once (and am not going to look it up again, either), the section from the TN code annotated which states that it is legal to kill ANY animal, even protected or endangered animals, with no permit or other authorization necessary, if said animal is posing an immediate threat of death or serious, bodily injury to a person. I really don't care what statistics claim, I believe that being bitten by a venomous snake constitutes a threat of death or serious, bodily injury and will respond accordingly. Heck, the law recognizes the validity of use of such force in self defense against fellow humans.

Further, I think there is a big difference in killing a snake, say, on a trail in the Smokies (which is not what I am talking about) and killing a venomous snake in my front yard or a egg-stealing snake in front of my chicken coop. To me, that is a pretty important distinction.

[mightymouse]

First, I want to apologize for reviving an old(er) thread, as I haven't signed on in a few weeks.

I was bit by a copperhead on my left ankle when I was 11, and was told to be thankful I was a chubby kid as they were usually fatal under 75 pounds. I was in Lafayette, TN, my hometown. Dad rushed me to MCGH, who called the paramedics, iced my leg, and sent me to Lebanon. By the time I got to Lebanon, my leg, from the knee down, was swollen to the point it was solid white. The ER doc went off on the paramedics because apparently you are not supposed to ice a snake bite. I was immeately put back in the ambulnce and rushed to Vanderbilt where they monitored the circulation in my leg and could rush me into emergency surgery if the swelling cut off said circulation. Stayed there overnight and would up on crutches until the swelling went down. 22 years later, other than the scars where they lanced the bites for suction, can't tell it happened.

Since then my opinion is the only good snake is a dead one.

[farrar]

my opinion is the only good snake is a dead one.

I wholeheartedly agree with this one.