Carrying in school parking lot as part of job

[n5odj]

I'm a licensed private investigator. Took my handgun carry class today & will soon turn in my application to the state. I am not authorized to carry a weapon under my PI license in Tennessee, but will be with my new CCW permit.

So, my question is this: I often do surveillance from school parking lots, often spending several hours at a time there. Inevitably, I will end up talking to the police. Am I in trouble if I have a handgun in my vehicle in a school parking lot (never taking the gun out of the vehicle)?

Also, what about adjacent states?

I tried to ask this question of my instructor today, but did not get an answer - he just kind of hemmed & hawwed.

Robert

[cadillacdude1975]

the tennessee handgun law is very clear on this issue. you are allowed to have your concealed weapon on you on school property WHILE picking up/dropping off kids at school and the weapon must not be touched or moved in any manner.

you obviously wont be dropping kids off or picking them up so i guess the answer is no. for other states including TN, go here.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/

[n5odj]

Hmmmm. I don't like your answer. Nah, just messing w/ ya'. I do want the truth. Guess I'll just have to stay out of school parking lots. Or, better yet, I can unload the handgun & put it out of reach, in the back of my van. How's that?

Robert

[Fallguy]

Actually cadillacdude1975 combined parts of two different statues about guns in school parking lots or property.

39-17-1310. Affirmative defense to carrying weapons on school property.

It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under § 39-17-1309(a)-(d) that the person's behavior was in strict compliance with the requirements of one (1) of the following classifications:

(4)

A person entering the property for the sole purpose of delivering or picking up passengers and who does not remove, utilize or allow to be removed or utilized any weapon from the vehicle.

Also there is

39-17-1309. Carrying weapons on school property.

© (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any firearm, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. It is not an offense under this subsection © for a nonstudent adult to possess a firearm, if the firearm is contained within a private vehicle operated by the adult and is not handled by the adult, or by any other person acting with the expressed or implied consent of the adult, while the vehicle is on school property.

----------------------

The second half of 39-17-1309©(1) says it's ok if it is in the vehicle and not being handled by you. I'm not sure if it is on your person if you could argue you are not handling it. Also a lot of what may happen next would depend on where you are. PI license or not cops may be fairly suspicious of someone hanging out on school property with a gun.

Edited February 24, 2008 by Fallguy

[n5odj]

Fallguy,

Well, that statute indicates to me that it would be OK. HOWEVER, I deal with a lot of police officers. Some (most) are pretty cool & actually do know the law, while some are just plain horse's butts (think Concord, NC - but that's a whole 'nuther story). I think, just to be safe, I'll toss the unloaded gun into the back, out of reach.

Changing subjects a bit, I'll just vent for a moment. I don't like that TN doesn't allow loaded long guns to be carried. Would be nice to be able to carry a loaded 12 gauge, like I used to in TX.

Robert

[Fallguy]

n5odj

Yep...it's the however part that you mention.

If it's unloaded I'd say you'd have no problem at all.

I also wish TN would do something to address loaded long guns elsewhere besides your own property.

[Guest 270win]

Are private investigators not licensed to carry weapons under the security guard licensing section in TN? I know security guards can carry on school property in a lot of states if it is a part of their job. I would think if you were licensed as a security guard, that would exempt you from some weapons laws while on duty.

[Guest 270win]

I'll add that TN should change the law on loaded long guns. You can carry a loaded long gun in all the states that surround TN without any sort of license. What happened here that cause the legislature to mess things up?

[cadillacdude1975]

jimmy naifeh is what happened to tennessee.

[Fallguy]

Are private investigators not licensed to carry weapons under the security guard licensing section in TN? I know security guards can carry on school property in a lot of states if it is a part of their job. I would think if you were licensed as a security guard, that would exempt you from some weapons laws while on duty.

A private investigator and a security guard are two different things in TN. Also on security guards there are two different types, armed and unarmed. Armed but be certified with the weapon.

62-26-207. Private investigator license — Applicants — Requirements — Apprentice status

Security guards

62-35-106. Qualifications of applicants

62-35-125. Carrying of weapons by guards or officers.

[cadillacdude1975]

now you know why your instructor hemmed & hawwed LOL

[n5odj]

Yes, like Fallguy said, PI & security guard are two different things. Some PIs can carry, if their license is set up that way. Mine is not & that's fine. I don't want to hassle with qualifying every year & all the regulations that go with it.

Robert

[Guest 270win]

So are some PI's in TN licensed as armed guards to carry weapons while on duty? I have heard armed guards have to qualify on the range every year or two years and have to be bonded.

[n5odj]

Razorback wrote: "So are some PI's in TN licensed as armed guards to carry weapons while on duty? I have heard armed guards have to qualify on the range every year or two years and have to be bonded."

Sorta. PIs & security guards are two different things, although I believe they are regulated and licensed by the same state agency. Some PIs carry as part of their jobs, but they are not acting as SGs. I do suppose a person could be both a SG & a PI.

Robert

[DaveTN]

Hmmmm. I don't like your answer. Nah, just messing w/ ya'. I do want the truth.

Then go to the States Attorneys Office in the counties where you will be doing this and ask them.

Not trying to be a smart azz, but you are talking about not only losing your carry permit but any other license’s you have.

[Guest Shooting Coach]

If you are going to get a Security Guard or a Private Investigator license and carry your firearm with a Tn Handgun Carry Permit, be warned the carry permit is to carry as an Armed Citizen. The State is very zealous about FEES and licenses. They want your MONEY for their licenses.

If you "obtain or furnish information", you must have the PI license. If you "protect persons or property from criminal activities", this requires a security guard license.

There are numerous hoops to jump through to become either a P.I. or Security Guard in Tn. Make sure you jump through all of them. Failure to do so can get you arrested and charged for "Impersonating a Licensed Professional". Did I mention the State wants your money for licenses? LOL

Check with Commerce and Insurance, Private Investigation and Polygraph Commission, and Private Protective Services BEFORE you do this.

[n5odj]

Shooting Coach,

Yep, I know the state wants its $$$$. I've been a licensed PI for quite a while & am familiar w/ their procedures, etc. Also licensed in OH, NC, SC, GA, WV, VA, KY.

As for carrying while working, the firearm would only be for personal protection and would not be used for protecting property, other people, etc.

Robert

[DaveTN]

I am not authorized to carry a weapon under my PI license in Tennessee, but will be with my new CCW permit.

As for carrying while working, the firearm would only be for personal protection and would not be used for protecting property, other people, etc.

Then no, if you are claiming no legal privilege other than any other HCP holder you can’t carry unless you are picking up or dropping off.

The intent of the law is to outlaw carry on school property. An exception is made so that HCP holders don’t have to disarm while taking their kids to and from school. What you are doing does not fall into that category.

I would guess that if for some reason the Police were made aware of your armed presence they would ask to see something that allows you to carry on school property. It doesn’t sound like you have anything like that.

FELONY. STATE LAW PRESCRIBES A MAXIMUM PENALTY OF SIX (6) YEARS IMPRISONMENT AND A FINE NOT TO EXCEED THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS ($3,000) FOR CARRYING WEAPONS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY.

But again, I would say that since you are risking be charged with a felony and losing any and all licensees you may have; I would want to hear any answer from the person that will be making the decision of whether or not I would be charged.

[Fallguy]

I agree that it would be best to check with the local AG or even ask your state Rep to request an opinon for the State's AG. Mine did this for me once and was easy and fairly quick.

I still feel there are two different situations where it is ok to have a weapon in car on school grounds.

One is picking up and dropping off...T.C.A. 39-17-1310(4) but there there is also T.C.A. 39-17-1309©(1) that says...

It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any firearm, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. It is not an offense under this subsection © for a nonstudent adult to possess a firearm, if the firearm is contained within a private vehicle operated by the adult and is not handled by the adult, or by any other person acting with the expressed or implied consent of the adult, while the vehicle is on school property.

Also it says a violation of 39-17-1309© is a Class B misdemeanor, not a felony.

[Guest 270win]

So, you can possess a firearm anytime in a vehicle, whether or not you are dropping off students on school property, such as when parked and doing business at a school? What is the difference between that and intending to go armed and having it in your vehicle? Is it legal to leave a loaded handgun in the glovebox when you are say going to a ball game at a school or do you have to unload it to remove the intent to go armed part? Very odd wording...curious if a loaded handgun in the glovebox of an unoccuppied vehicle on school property falls under the felony part of the law.

[dralarms]

yep, do it all the time. My suggestion would be to get a quick access lock box for it though.

[strickj]

So, you can possess a firearm anytime in a vehicle, whether or not you are dropping off students on school property, such as when parked and doing business at a school? What is the difference between that and intending to go armed and having it in your vehicle? Is it legal to leave a loaded handgun in the glovebox when you are say going to a ball game at a school or do you have to unload it to remove the intent to go armed part? Very odd wording...curious if a loaded handgun in the glovebox of an unoccuppied vehicle on school property falls under the felony part of the law.

Carrying is just that,carrying.Intent to go armed(the best I can explain)means that you mean to use it while commiting an offence.