Permit revoked

[Guest rurik]

Got a DUI after police responded to a verbal altercation and was accused of aggravated assault because I had a handgun in view. The charges of possession of handgun while intoxicated were dropped, and the ag assault was dropped to simple. I knew my permit would be suspended, but found out the ADA had included a revocation for life. Is there a way I can have this reversed after my probation for the charges is complete? or am I just out of luck?

Before I get blasted, believe me I regret leaving the house that day, and have already heard all the comments you could hit me with.

[peejman]

Find a good attorney. Decide how much you're willing to spend to have it reversed.

[RobertNashville]

Seems to me that this is an example of what is wrong with the HCP process and why, perhaps, we need what is commonly called "constitutional carry" in Tennessee in addition to (not a replacement of) the HCP proecess.

It shouldn't be up to one DA to effectively suspend and HCP forever and frankly, if someone is otherwise eligible to own a handgun (and as far as I know, these charges would not prevent that) then it should be equally okay to carry a handgun.

I suppose there should be some exceptions but someone who has made a mistake and has "paid his due" shouldn't have to lose a right forever just because of one person's (this ADA) opinion.

Just my $0.02

[MikePapa1]

Did you take a plea? Was it written out? Did the ADA mention the lifetime revocation in open court? When did this happen?

[Guest rurik]

The stipulation that it be a lifetime revocation was written in on the comment section of my court papers. It was a plea bargain, and there was no testimony in open court. As a matter of fact, I never even saw the ADA, it was handled by my attorney.

[Guest 10mm4me]

Well if you agreed to the bargain doesn't seem you have much of a leg to stand on. If you got the $$$ I'm sure someone can get you off somehow though.

[Guest rurik]

There was a miscommunication on the matter. When told I was going to lose my permit, I thought it meant during the probation. I had even received a letter from the state prior to the final plea explaining how to have it re-instated after my obligation to the state was completed. It wasn't until I was leaving court and read the comment section that I realized they had made it permanent.

[Guest rurik]

BTW, it was a misdemeanor conviction for simple assault, and the DUI was misdemeanor as well.

[Stegall Law Firm]

It doesn't seem like a local prosecutor would be able to supercede the power of the Dept. of Safety. Does DOS even know about this so called "lifetime ban"? It sounds like something that could be challenged.

[Guest EyeOfMidnight]

Clearly unconstitutional and violates your right to due process. I hate bureaucracy.

[DaveTN]

Sounds like your attorney made a plea agreement to reduce a felony. Judges aren’t bound by plea agreements; the Judge could have added it.

I would guess you might be able to take your case before whoever hears the DOS cases. But they are going to hear everything that happened. When they hear that are they going to let you keep your permit?

What does you attorney say about whether or not you can appeal the decision?

[Guest rurik]

Should I just apply to have it renewed when it expires next year? My probationary period will have been over for several months.

[Guest clownsdd]

I would be crawling my attorney's backsides.

[Westwindmike]

Seems you had to chose the lesser of two evils. Losing your permit or going to jail for a felony.

[Smith]

So you brandished a gun during a verbal altercation, drove drunk, and agreed to the charges to have them reduced. Now you want all the consequences legally dropped. Interesting.... I'm thinking you are the very kind of person with poor judgment we DON'T want with permits.

Also, you plea bargained the charges down and now want MORE "due process"? You get it once. Not twice. I'm thinking you should be thanking God they dropped the original charges and reduced the ones they carried.

[Guest bkelm18]

I think the lesson here is, "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

[Guest rurik]

Since you are not aware of the circumstances, and seem to want to create your own scenario, I will disregard your comments. The charges were dropped down because they were not valid. The handgun was visible, not being brandished. I admit to the charge of DUI, but not to the extent you seem to imagine. Because of the letter I received from the state after being charged, I understood that my permit would be SUSPENDED, and had no problem with that being part of my obligation. The ADA took it upon himself to add the LIFETIME revocation. Even the county clerk's office supplied me with a receipt showing I had paid all fines and costs, in order to show the State for reinstatement. My lawyer didn't understand that fact either, but it was hand written on the court papers, not an official part of the plea.

[trblmkr13]

I would say based on what I found below on the tn.gov website you will not be able to renew if you plead guilty to DUI

The applicant has not been convicted of the offense of driving under the influence of an intoxicant in this or any other State two (2) or more times within ten (10) years from the date of application and that none of such convictions has occurred within five (5) years from the date of application or renewal.

[Smith]

Since you are not aware of the circumstances, and seem to want to create your own scenario, I will disregard your comments. The charges were dropped down because they were not valid. The handgun was visible, not being brandished. I admit to the charge of DUI, but not to the extent you seem to imagine. Because of the letter I received from the state after being charged, I understood that my permit would be SUSPENDED, and had no problem with that being part of my obligation. The ADA took it upon himself to add the LIFETIME revocation. Even the county clerk's office supplied me with a receipt showing I had paid all fines and costs, in order to show the State for reinstatement. My lawyer didn't understand that fact either, but it was hand written on the court papers, not an official part of the plea.

The scenario was the one you painted. In a court of law or, any time in the future when they look at the paperwork, they will not care to sit down with you as you explain why the charges aren't as bad as they seem. Legally you will not be able to buy a firearm in the future in any case and that will not change. That's just the way it is. There are consequences for YOUR actions and when you got your HCP that should have been covered and listened to. There are cases where HCP holders are unfairly charged or have the law applied incorrectly. This is not one of those.

If you want more legally advice in this arena you need to consult Leonard Embody.

[JeffL]

I would say based on what I found below on the tn.gov website you will not be able to renew if you plead guilty to DUI

The applicant has not been convicted of the offense of driving under the influence of an intoxicant in this or any other State two (2) or more times within ten (10) years from the date of application and that none of such convictions has occurred within five (5) years from the date of application or renewal.

You have to be convicted TWICE, with one of the convictions being within the last 5 years.

[bigwakes]

I would say try to renew as normal and see what happens. Worst they can do is turn you down. If all charges were a misdemeanor than he can still buy a firearm and I agree with Jeff, the law says two convictions. Rurik, you came to the wrong place if you were looking for sympathy.

[Guest Konig]

The scenario was the one you painted. In a court of law or, any time in the future when they look at the paperwork, they will not care to sit down with you as you explain why the charges aren't as bad as they seem. Legally you will not be able to buy a firearm in the future in any case and that will not change. That's just the way it is. There are consequences for YOUR actions and when you got your HCP that should have been covered and listened to. There are cases where HCP holders are unfairly charged or have the law applied incorrectly. This is not one of those.

If you want more legally advice in this arena you need to consult Leonard Embody.

Who is Leonard Embody?????????????

[Guest rurik]

Not at all looking for sympathy, and there is nothing you guys could say that would make me feel any worse than I already do. I readily admit to making mistakes in this matter, and have paid dearly, both in money and shame. I hoped for, and have mostly been given, advice as to what course of action is available to me in the future. My biggest question I guess is can a local ADA add conditions that are not in TCA. There is no felony conviction, and with the exception of domestic assault, stalking and 2nd offense DUI misdemeanors I understand that a plead down charge does not count against you. My convictions were simple assault and 1st offense DUI.

[Jasongar8]

I think the lesson here is, "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

^^^This.^^^

Have you contacted your lawyer? What did he/she have to say about the "lifetime ban"?

[JayC]

Got a DUI after police responded to a verbal altercation and was accused of aggravated assault because I had a handgun in view. The charges of possession of handgun while intoxicated were dropped, and the ag assault was dropped to simple. I knew my permit would be suspended, but found out the ADA had included a revocation for life. Is there a way I can have this reversed after my probation for the charges is complete? or am I just out of luck?

Before I get blasted, believe me I regret leaving the house that day, and have already heard all the comments you could hit me with.

I'm just curious but how exactly did the ADA revocation for life? Did he include it as part of a plea agreement?

I'm just curious how exactly an ADA revoked your HCP permit for life, since there is no way under the law for him to do that, only TDOS can revoke your permit for life against your will in TN. (Obviously if you agreed to it in a plea that would be a different story).

Edit: Never mind, just saw it was part of the plea agreement... Just curious did you completely read the plea agreement before signing it? If so was the HCP part on there or added after you signed?

Edited April 28, 2011 by JayC