4th amendment under attack in MI

[vontar]

I don't know how Legit this is, however a co worker told me about it at work today and I typed it in google and I got a hit.

Seems, that MI, State Police are violating the Fourth Amendment with out probable cause using a device to search people's smart phones during traffic stops.

Here is the first article I found.

Michigan Police Search Smartphones - Mobiledia

second hit

Michigan: Police Search Cell Phones During Traffic Stops

seems the ACLU is involved.

I just found it on CNET

ACLU: Michigan cops stealing drivers' phone data | Crave - CNET

[Guest monkeyhumper]

Related:

Your iPhone is silently and constantly logging your location

[vontar]

I just went out and mowed the back lawn, push mower, and thought about this some.

Perhaps, we should write our Reps and get a bill started to preempt something like this before they get a thought of it in TN.

[Oh Shoot]

They were just discussing this on Fox News.

Universal sentiment on panel that this would be stopped PDQ. Guess we'll see.

- OS

[greenego]

I haven't heard if anyone refused to give PD their phone. Is there a law that says you have to give it to them?

[Caster]

Like we didn't see this coming eons ago? As personal devices progress and their use lets the public into personal lives, someone has been there the whole time for the purpose of exploiting the information easily taken from them.

[Dolomite_supafly]

There should always be a warrant issued before any type of search is done, this included. If there is reason to believe a crime has been committed it shouldn't be a problem getting a judge sign off on it. Have a judge on call 24/7 to review and then sign off on warrants for every search including those done during traffic stops.

What generally happens though is we are presumed guilty when we will not give up our right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. After all only guilty people have something to hide.

Dolomite

[Guest clownsdd]

If being pulled over by an leo, turn the phone off...end of problem.

[vontar]

If being pulled over by an leo, turn the phone off...end of problem.

I just leave mine in my pocket and don't pull it out.

However, I get the feeling this device might be able to read it at some range.

There should always be a warrant issued before any type of search is done, this included. If there is reason to believe a crime has been committed it shouldn't be a problem getting a judge sign off on it. Have a judge on call 24/7 to review and then sign off on warrants for every search including those done during traffic stops.

What generally happens though is we are presumed guilty when we will not give up our right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. After all only guilty people have something to hide.

Dolomite

I agree with that.

I am going to tread as lightly as I can with this, but I believe if a LEO asks me if they can search my car/truck and I refuse they look hard for a reason if it includes calling out a K9 to walk around. Then all they have to say is the K9 gave a reason to suspect, it would always be their word verse mine. I don't trust the signal of a K9 in all cases.

[Chief07]

I just went out and mowed the back lawn, push mower, and thought about this some.

Perhaps, we should write our Reps and get a bill started to preempt something like this before they get a thought of it in TN.

Good idea. Stupid politicians love to be "me first" to come up with bills. I'm calling my Senator.

[Guest monkeyhumper]

However, I get the feeling this device might be able to read it at some range.

The device MUST be plugged into the phone to slurp the data.

Also, from what I gather, other than proper forensic investigations, they mainly employed the old "You're free to go... but... you know, we've been having lots of {pedos, druggies, killers, jaywalkers} in this area... you don't mind if we search you... do you? I mean... if you aren't a {pedo, druggie, killer, jaywalker}, then you should have nothing to hide, RIGHT?" technique. Which is pure sleazebaggery in my opinion, but who am I.

I'd like to see statistics on how often troopers pulled over those they found attractive, just to see if they had any naughty naughty photos.

That's what I'd do, but I'm a giant pervert.

[vontar]

I'd like to see statistics on how often troopers pulled over those they found attractive, just to see if they had any naughty naughty photos.

That's what I'd do, but I'm a giant pervert.

I get the feeling that is what they want the ACLU to cough up 500,000 dollars for a processing fee for the freedom of information act they filed

As I understand, MI has 5 of these devices.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

It's just plain wrong. Stuff like this is eventually going to get some police types in serious trouble. If

someone is proud to call themselves a policeman and does this, they aren't much upstairs. I'm glad

I don't go to MI. I saw that on FOX yesterday, also, and it appears I won't be getting an iPhone 4

any time soon.

[leroy]

I believe some smart guy with a bit of money will fix all this. This is, in fact, a Fourth Amendment violation and a trashing of the "presumption of innocence" doctrine.

My guess is that this will go away everywhere pretty quick. I believe this is a "just say no" and "wait for the warrant" thing. The law enforcement establishment can push around poor folks and kids; i cant wait for them to latch onto someone who knows better.

Thanks for posting this serious article.

leroy

[RobertNashville]

I think the thing that should be remembered is that it is never wise to consent to any search or to volunteer information to LE. That said, this phone issue is troubling but devices to know exactly were you vehicle has been including date and time of day, etc is even more troubling to me - our laws are woefully behind technology.

Just look at crime of "identity theft"; something almost impossible (or at least difficult) to do not all that long ago but now anyone with a smattering of knowledge and the will to do it can "pretend" to be you and cause you problems that are almost impossible to imagine. This problem exists because of so much "public information" not just available but available online to almost anyone anywhere then added to the mix are lenders/businesses that are so eager to "sell" you their product that they'll do it all online all based on electrons! If they find out later that it wasn't you it's will just be "oops; I'm sorry...then ten years later you have scumbag collectors harassing you to collect the "debts" your ID thief ran up in your name.

Living off the grid (and I don't mean electric grid) seems like a better idea every day.

[bajabuc]

I knew there was a good reason to NOT have a cell. I look at it like this: I have a landline...my computer is attached to it...I screen my calls. Call me, you might get lucky and I'll answer. When I'm driving, out visiting, in a restaurant, playing amateur gunsmith with my toys in my shed...THAT's MY TIME!

People who feel it's MY civic duty to listen to THEIR babble about feeding the poor in other countries don't get past the Hello. It's like I told an insurance agent who was trying to sell me life insurance..."When I'm dead I won't care what she has to do...I'll be dead. If you tell me I'll know, you got it wrong. The bible plainly states "There is no sorrow there"...I WON'T be sorry. And if I don't go there...I'll be too busy to worry about it.

[Steve32]

I thought it's illegal if they do such things without a search warrant.

[Guest Bronker]

I knew there was a good reason to NOT have a cell. I look at it like this: I have a landline...my computer is attached to it...I screen my calls. Call me, you might get lucky and I'll answer. When I'm driving, out visiting, in a restaurant, playing amateur gunsmith with my toys in my shed...THAT's MY TIME!

People who feel it's MY civic duty to listen to THEIR babble about feeding the poor in other countries don't get past the Hello. It's like I told an insurance agent who was trying to sell me life insurance..."When I'm dead I won't care what she has to do...I'll be dead. If you tell me I'll know, you got it wrong. The bible plainly states "There is no sorrow there"...I WON'T be sorry. And if I don't go there...I'll be too busy to worry about it.

Regardless of opinions, this man knows 'freedom'.

[DaveTN]

Give me a freaking break you

They have 5 of these devices for the whole state and they are "using them on traffic stops".

The ACLU doesn't even have any complaints from anyone.

They discovered that the Police have a device that can extract data from a cell phone.... OMG...no good can come of that.

Turn your phones off and wrap them in foil, remove the On-Star and the black box from your vehicles, disconnect your computer from the Internet, and whatever you do don't sign up for any gun forums (your information automatically goes to Homeland Security and you go on a list somewhere)

Or.... you could simply take a deep breath and remove the Tin Foil Hat... it will be okay.:chill:

　

[Guest Overtaker]

You get 3 password attempts on my Blackberry. After the 3rd failed attempt, all data on the device is wiped.

Hopefully this machine uses a brute force attack to crack passwords and not a back door.

[DaveTN]

You get 3 password attempts on my Blackberry. After the 3rd failed attempt, all data on the device is wiped.

Hopefully this machine uses a brute force attack to crack passwords and not a back door.

They just extract the password from you.

[vontar]

After I heard about this, I set a password on my Droid but I am pretty sure it does not wipe data like a good o blackberry.

[Guest friesepferd]

although i certainly dont agree with any kind of search without concent, I certainly wouldnt care if they wanted to get the data off my phone. Theres nothing but some phone numbers and times I called them. Nothing to hide there.

Does anyone have info on whether or not the police actually asked people for their phones or not? Doing it without asking (and without probible cause) is a nono. Doing it with permission.... so what.

[vontar]

although i certainly dont agree with any kind of search without concent, I certainly wouldnt care if they wanted to get the data off my phone. Theres nothing but some phone numbers and times I called them. Nothing to hide there.

Does anyone have info on whether or not the police actually asked people for their phones or not? Doing it without asking (and without probible cause) is a nono. Doing it with permission.... so what.

Well those phones also track were you have been, example the Iphones have files on them that record your GPS tower locations and I don't know how far back that goes. They might use the data from your phone to cross reference to say you were in an area of a crime. Now you have give them consent to search and they linked your GPS phone tower location to a crime that you knew nothing about. Just because you may have been driving though an area at the wrong time.

Example. Not an actually case.

All because you were doing 68 in a 55 and after they gave you a nice warning and you though you were off the hook they said, BTW, we have been having trouble with some bah bah bah in this area would you mind if we check your cell phone to make sure you are not involved, it will only take 2 minutes? and you said sure no problem and then he bid you a good day and you drove off thinking I bet that speeding ticket. 3 days later you might end up being questioned about a crime you know nothing about or worse.

No I am not going to consent to anything like this.

[Guest friesepferd]

well ya. i couldnt concent to it either...

im still wondering if they are asking people or forcing people.

there is nothing wrong with ASKING people if they can search their phones.