The innapropriate night-time door knock...

[Fallguy]

Hey Guys,

Is it legal to shoot someone standing on the outside of your door?

As others have said the basic answer is, if you are in "reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm." So if they are just standing there, that might be a hard sell. If you have told them to go away and they start trying to break in the door, I wouldn't charge you or convict you of anything, but that's me.

The self-defense law does include an "attached porch" as part of a dwelling and your residence is a dwelling.

39-11-611. Self-defense.

(a) As used in this section, unless the context otherwise requires:

(2)

“Dwelling†means a building or conveyance of any kind,

including any attached porch

, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, that has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed for or capable of use by people;

(3)

“Residence†means a dwelling in which a person resides, either temporarily or permanently, or is visiting as an invited guest, or any dwelling, building or other appurtenance within the curtilage of the residence;

© Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury within a residence, dwelling or vehicle is presumed to have held a reasonable belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury to self, family, a member of the household or a person visiting as an invited guest, when that force is used against another person, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence, dwelling or vehicle, and the person using defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

A good lawyer (of which I'm not one, good or bad...lol) could reasonably argue that a BG on your attached porch was within your dwelling and/or residence. But hopefully it wouldn't get to that point.

Again this is not legal advice, but just what I have been told. If you notice the above statute uses the term force and/or forcibly....my brother the LEO once told me that simply turning the door knob can be considered force. That it doesn't have to mean "breaking down" the door.

[strickj]

so....can we shoot the jehovah's witness guys that always comes when you eating dinner

[Guest Engloid]

While in my home, if I felt the need to always have a gun with me, near me at all times or have various guns hidden throughout the house, I would move to a better zip code.

Aren't those the neighborhoods that criminals prefer to rob?

I don't see many plasma tv's in the ghetto.

[Guest bulletproof]

Remember, it just takes one good kick on most doors to gain entry.

[Guest Engloid]

The self-defense law does include an "attached porch" as part of a dwelling and your residence is a dwelling.

Good point of addtion here. I don't know that many cops would dig deep enough into the law to not charge you with a crime. Hopefully, a jury would back you up on it, if the situation was just.

[Guest Engloid]

Again, I'll ask... why would you open the door when you don't know the person that's outside? I figure I'm not obligated to open my door for anybody, so if I don't know them, I don't want to waste my time on them.

Maybe curiosity is what drives people to open the door for everybody that knocks. I just watch them and they almost always go to the house next door or across the street. I then know they are probably selling something.

[Fallguy]

Again, I'll ask... why would you open the door when you don't know the person that's outside? I figure I'm not obligated to open my door for anybody, so if I don't know them, I don't want to waste my time on them.

VERY good point.

I don't answer the phone if it says "Unknown caller" etc...it's my phone...I don't have to.

Same thing with the door...my voice is loud enough to be heard on the outside with the door closed if for some reason I feel the need to talk with them.

Edited February 23, 2008 by Fallguy

[Guest Engloid]

The only time I talk through the door is if it's somebody I know and I need to throw some clothes on before opening the door.

[strickj]

The only time I talk through the door is if it's somebody I know and I need to throw some clothes on before opening the door.

I knew someone on here had to be a gigolo besides me,but I'm not in it for the money im in it for the love

[towerclimber37]

I knew someone on here had to be a gigolo besides me,but I'm not in it for the money im in it for the love

:rofl:

[dariks]

While in my home, if I felt the need to always have a gun with me, near me at all times or have various guns hidden throughout the house, I would move to a better zip code.

Otherwise, it makes you look like

Day or night, I always checkout the person at the door and make my own determination if I will open the door or have a conversation through the door.

If I am unsure about the person and I decide to open the door, then I will open the door 2" and have the door braced with my body and one foot to prevent entry and possibly have a long knife in my hand that they cannot see.

So if you aren't sure who is on the other side of the door it's ok to answer the door with a long knife but not a gun???

Pass me the tin foil hat , but I would rather answer my door with a gun at my side than a knife any day of the week.

[Guest slothful1]

Remember, it just takes one good kick on most doors to gain entry.

Yes, but remember to put on the BG's shoe if you kick it while waiting for the police to arrive, to make sure the prints match.

[K191145]

I actually had to knock on some guys door back in the late 80s at 10:30 in the middle of BF Nowhere, close to Eagleville. I was with a friend when his old Beamer broke down on a gravel road and the closest farm house was 1/2 mile. I thought what he did was cool, I told him we had broke down and I needed to call a friend so without opening the door, he just told me to give him my friends number, my name and he would call him. He did and everything worked out alright but I'm sure he had shotgun in hand just in case.

[Guest Engloid]

I knew someone on here had to be a gigolo besides me,but I'm not in it for the money im in it for the love

I may be easy, but I'm not cheap.

[Guest jp79]

I actually had to knock on some guys door back in the late 80s at 10:30 in the middle of BF Nowhere, close to Eagleville. I was with a friend when his old Beamer broke down on a gravel road and the closest farm house was 1/2 mile. I thought what he did was cool, I told him we had broke down and I needed to call a friend so without opening the door, he just told me to give him my friends number, my name and he would call him. He did and everything worked out alright but I'm sure he had shotgun in hand just in case.

I actually did the same thing a couple years ago. Strange thing was i called the girls friend and it really seamed to be a setup. After the girl left me and dad went looking for her car to see if she was legit and there was no car to be found.

After that incident i think that is the best way to handle those situations. We need to help everyone we can and i think that is a way to do so without putting yourself or your family in danger.

[K191145]

I actually did the same thing a couple years ago. Strange thing was i called the girls friend and it really seamed to be a setup. After the girl left me and dad went looking for her car to see if she was legit and there was no car to be found.

After that incident i think that is the best way to handle those situations. We need to help everyone we can and i think that is a way to do so without putting yourself or your family in danger.

In this day and age of cell phones, that should be rare. But I would give some one the benifit of a doubt behind my locked door with my Glock on my side. They can either give me a number to call or they can leave.

[DaveTN]

and of course I have two dobermans that live in the house with me. LOL

Mine is in the house also and if your Doberman’s are anything like mine; there won’t be anyone at the door when you get there.

Provided they even got to the door before he heard them.

[Guest jaypee]

I've studied and taught legal and moral use of deadly force as a police firearms instructor and in the Tennessee Concealed Carry Program. This topic always generates some real spirited discussion wherever cops, armed citizens, or Carry Permit holders discuss it. I've enjoyed reading this thread very much and I'd like to offer just a couple of pieces of advice to all the participants in the discussion for your future reference. You folks are young and will be armed citizens for a lot of years to come, so you need to know this:

In any discussion of this subject, it is critically important that you never try to write your own self defense law by declaring this or that is lawful when you really don't know if it is or not. If you don't know, don't speak and don't speculate. And never make a declaration you're unsure of just to win a point. I have heard lots of this in similar discussions over the years and it can be a short cut to a prison sentence for someone if the information presented as fact is wrong. Self defense law is very, very old and well-established in this country, and it goes right to the core of right and wrong in our system of criminal laws. It can't be rewritten, defeated, or overcome by egotistical declarations or wishful thinking.

Secondly, be darn careful where you get your information on the subject. A gunsmith is not a good source. A gun shop owner is not a good source. Aunt Minnie's mechanic who used to be a reserve Deputy is not a good source. A casual conversation with the beat officer may not even be a good source. Get your information from authoritative sources such as NRA, State, and local training programs and publications, as well as in community college training programs. Best wishes and thanks for listening.

JayPee

Edited March 3, 2008 by jaypee

[NuTcAsE]

A "reasonable person" would have to feel their life was threatened. What this means is that if you're scared of the wind blowing, and go shooting up the town, you're gonna get in trouble. It's not so much what YOU are scared of, it's what you can convince a jury that you were scared of. If you convince them that you're a nutcase that thought the CIA planted bugs in your brain, and you shot through the door thinking it was them coming to get you, it will be hard to convince them that you were a "reasonable person."

In other words, a jury will hear your story and ask themselves if they would fear for their lives if they were in your shoes. If they wouldn't, you may be in trouble.

Don't drag me into this telling people to go around pretending to be me!!

And just for the record it wasn't the C.I.A., it was ALIENS!! Like them one you see on T.V.

[Guest offroader1994]

Monday evening walked outside and a guy was in the street behind my truck and said "have you seen a black dog out here?" I said "no have you seen a little black hadgun come out of a holster in this street light?" He said "no":eek: and went on his way yelling some name. The next night i started out of the house and a guy was walking up to my porch and asked if Nathan or something like that lived there. I leaned in the door and asked if what ever name lived there turned around to him and said "no mossberg said he does not live here." With that and the dogs barking like crazy he left fairly quickly. I really tried to be friendly and help them out.:lol:

[strickj]

Yeah that "does boomhauer live here" thing is an old trick.I have had that happen to me a couple of years ago.A guy walked up and ask for somebody, I said no in a kinda hate full way.Then a couple of days later my neighbor caught the same a-hole stealing a bicycle and a mower fom my garage.He ended up geting away with the bike,but he didnt get the mower,Thank GOD!dont know what I would have done with out that mower:(

[Guest Boomhower]

Yeah that "does boomhauer live here" thing is an old trick.

Hey, wait a......oh nevermind. Wrong person.

[strickj]

[Guest db99wj]

Heymanwhatutalk'nboutcom'ntothedoorallhoppeduponthedopebeatendownnutzgoingtogetshoyoman Itellyouwhat.

[strickj]

Why does my head hurt now after trying to read that?