Sig P238 question

[Guest Moose]

Question for p238 owners..

I almost bought one at the gun show this weekend, until i started handling it.

I've been wanting something for pocket carry and it looked like it would fill the bill,

was concerned about the cocked and locked in a pocket(striker exposed). i put it in

half cock and pulled the trigger, it dropped the hammer with enough force to fire a

round. Tried a different one (nib) and it did the same thing.. didn't matter if safety was on or off.

question is; is this is normal for this pistol? and how do you carry yours?

[xRUSTYx]

when I had mine, i carried it cocked & locked 24/7 ....as for a half cocking + release ... I don't honestly remember.

[Hershmeister]

It fired with the safety on? You sure?

[Guest carter]

he's talking from half cocked...which is not the intended way to carry it... carry full cocked and locked and your fine...there is a disconnect, it's not a true 1911 just looks like one

[cannoncocker]

"it dropped the hammer with enough force to fire a round."

How did you determine this?

I just tried the pencil test in my 238 and the pencil didn't move when pulling the trigger and dropping the hammer from a half cock.. This leads me to believe that either the FPB, or the intercept notch is preventing the hammer from contacting the firing pin or there isn't enough force to overcome the inertia of the firing pin spring when pulling the trigger and dropping the hammer from a half cock position.

A trip to the range will confirm my theory.

[timcalhoun]

It is like a 1911 in that the half cock is not designed as a safety. It is only a hammer follow safety. The gun should be carried cocked and locked. It also has a firing pin safety that is only disengaged when the trigger is pulled back like a series 80 1911.

[Jonnin]

I tried it on mine and it also drops with the safety on. Half cocked is generous; its more like 1/4 cocked. I doubt it has the force to fire a round, but I didnt try it live.

Half cocked is not meant for carry. I am not sure what it IS meant for, I thought it was part of maintence or disassembly but I havent needed to use it for anything. Carry it all the way back & safety on, and it will not fire, and the safety is not easily bumped off by accident -- in a proper holster, its all but impossible, loose in the pocket with other objects while playing backyard football, it becomes a bit of a risk.

[JG55]

It is like a 1911 in that the half cock is not designed as a safety. It is only a hammer follow safety. The gun should be carried cocked and locked. It also has a firing pin safety that is only disengaged when the trigger is pulled back like a series 80 1911.

What is the Hammer follow safety? Are you sure about the firing pin safety only being disengaged when the trigger is pulled ?

I have been carrying mine in a leather front pocket holster and in a leather rear pocket holster and have had no issues with the safety coming off. Has there ever been a case of accidental discharge with the safety getting knocked to off in the cocked and locked mode ?

[Erik88]

it was designed to be cocked and locked. I never carried mine 1/2 cocked.

[JG55]

Here a link to sig forum discussing this issue

p238 carry uncocked !! - Topic

[timcalhoun]

What is the Hammer follow safety? Are you sure about the firing pin safety only being disengaged when the trigger is pulled ?

I have been carrying mine in a leather front pocket holster and in a leather rear pocket holster and have had no issues with the safety coming off. Has there ever been a case of accidental discharge with the safety getting knocked to off in the cocked and locked mode ?

Hammer follow can happen when parts get extremely wore (for the most part), so when you shoot the gun, instead of the sear catching the hammer at full cock, it falls forward and so they put another catch on the hammer to prevent detonation.

Yes, I'm sure about the firing pin safety. The trigger has to be pulled in order for the firing pin block to get out of the way.

[gregintenn]

I'm with the OP here. The Sig p238 is a very attractive, well made pistol, but I am not fond of the idea of a loaded pistol in my pocket with the hammer cocked. I imagine it is just as safe as most other pocket pistols, but I just don't like the thought of it.

[Jonnin]

I'm with the OP here. The Sig p238 is a very attractive, well made pistol, but I am not fond of the idea of a loaded pistol in my pocket with the hammer cocked. I imagine it is just as safe as most other pocket pistols, but I just don't like the thought of it.

Heh, pick nearly any gun, somone will have a reservation about its safety features. Pretty much its as safe as any other gun: if you do not release the safety and pull the trigger, it will not fire. I guess, since I carry mine, I am willing to bet my life, or at least my foot, on that. You have a point, though, the grip safety of a 1911 was added for this same reservation about the basic design. My take on it: they have been out for some years now and I am unaware of a growing number of one legged/footed sudden millionaire sig fanboys, so I am going to trust that its fairly safe.

[Erik88]

I'm with the OP here. The Sig p238 is a very attractive, well made pistol, but I am not fond of the idea of a loaded pistol in my pocket with the hammer cocked. I imagine it is just as safe as most other pocket pistols, but I just don't like the thought of it.

the only thing that bother me about it was the fact that I had to take the safety off if I ever needed it. Not a big fan of having a manual safety on a carry gun but I did love my p238 when I had it.

[gregintenn]

Heh, pick nearly any gun, somone will have a reservation about its safety features. Pretty much its as safe as any other gun: if you do not release the safety and pull the trigger, it will not fire. I guess, since I carry mine, I am willing to bet my life, or at least my foot, on that. You have a point, though, the grip safety of a 1911 was added for this same reservation about the basic design. My take on it: they have been out for some years now and I am unaware of a growing number of one legged/footed sudden millionaire sig fanboys, so I am going to trust that its fairly safe.

I imagine it is about as safe as most any other model. I'm just hard headed I suppose.

[Lumber_Jack]

the only thing that bother me about it was the fact that I had to take the safety off if I ever needed it. Not a big fan of having a manual safety on a carry gun but I did love my p238 when I had it.

definitely something to consider. I'm lookin at getting one, but I carry a 1911 so thumb safety is a msucle memory for me now

[Guest carter]

there is a hammer disconnect... if you cock the hammer back...and engaged the safety...you can see the hammer move back a 16th or so... from my understanding the gun will not fire unlesss you pull the trigger due to the disconnect...

[kieefer]

I also had reservations about mine being cocked'n locked but while at the range I tried ever possible way to make the gun fire with the safety on and it won't. Not being a smartass but become comfortable with it or use something else.

I also feel that having to click the safety down is not much different than pulling a revolver or a having a long trigger pull that some autos have......LC9 comes to mind.

[Fourtyfive]

I love mine , but carry in the pocket with hammer down and safety on ; 1 in the pipe.

[leroy]

Moose and all:_________________

Ben watchin this thread and reading all the posts with great interest. I keep a 238 in my right front pocket if i have my pants on. I carry it in a D. M. Bullard roughout pocket holster "cocked and locked". The holster is designed to just cover up the thumb safety so it can't be disengaged while in the pocket. You have to knock the safety off as you draw (...just like a 1911...). Ive carried this little pistol over a year every day without mishap.

My advice: Get a good holster that covers the thumb safety if you pocket carry.

I, like some other folks, looked at figuring out a half-cock carrying method; but i found the hammer too small to get a good thumb grip on on the draw. I really wanted to try to do it this way (...i'm left handed...), but i couldn't get it to work out satisfactorily. I gave up and carry in the right pocket and used a right hand draw and shoot. This little pistol was obviously designed for cocked and locked carry by right handers.

Hope this helps.

leroy

[timcalhoun]

Again, there is a firing pin block. So in practice/theory, it is no different from a glock in that it wont go bang unless the trigger is pulled.

If you don't believe that the firing pin block is in there............. do this:

Make sure the gun is unloaded with the hammer cocked, now take an allen wrench or anything that is small in diameter enough to fit in the firing pin hole and push on the firing pin. You will see it move only a tiny bit and can't go forward much at all. Now, hold the hammer back with your thumb and at the same time pin the trigger to the rear, with the other hand use the allen wrench (or whatever) to push on the firing pin. You will see it now goes very deep and the pin itself will exit the breech-face.

The thumb safety when applied rotates the hammer back off the sear and locks the hammer in place. When you pull the trigger with the hammer locked back (thumb safety on) you are actually moving the sear. In that respect, it is not like a 1911 thumb safety at all. A 1911 thumb safety locks the sear from moving, and even if the sear magically disappeared or broke in two, the thumb safety will prevent the hammer from falling much past half way.

The 238 is a very safe gun to carry cocked and locked.

[JG55]

Tim,

Got that cocked and locked is very safe, folks seem to be objecting to carrying it in their pocket with it cocked and locked becasue of concerns over the safety possibly being knocked to off position, thus thinking the gun might go off accidently. Based on the above information, the safety could be knocked off (not very likely) and still not fire unless the trigger is pulled. So unless that trigger is pulled or there is a defect in the weapon, it will not fire unless you pull the trigger. Have I got this right?

By the way where are you getting so much info about the p238?

Anyone know if P238 will handle +P ammo?

[timcalhoun]

Tim,

Got that cocked and locked is very safe, folks seem to be objecting to carrying it in their pocket with it cocked and locked becasue of concerns over the safety possibly being knocked to off position, thus thinking the gun might go off accidently. Based on the above information, the safety could be knocked off (not very likely) and still not fire unless the trigger is pulled. So unless that trigger is pulled or there is a defect in the weapon, it will not fire unless you pull the trigger. Have I got this right?

By the way where are you getting so much info about the p238?

Anyone know if P238 will handle +P ammo?

You are correct, even with the thumb safety off, it will not fire unless the trigger is pulled back.

[Jonnin]

Tim,

Got that cocked and locked is very safe, folks seem to be objecting to carrying it in their pocket with it cocked and locked becasue of concerns over the safety possibly being knocked to off position, thus thinking the gun might go off accidently. Based on the above information, the safety could be knocked off (not very likely) and still not fire unless the trigger is pulled. So unless that trigger is pulled or there is a defect in the weapon, it will not fire unless you pull the trigger. Have I got this right?

By the way where are you getting so much info about the p238?

Anyone know if P238 will handle +P ammo?

There is no such thing as +p ammo in 380, by the SAAMI loading standards at least. Unless this changed recently. A few makers mark theirs as +P for marketing or as a warning that its a hot load.

The sig can handle buffalo bore in small doses, for whatever that is worth. I can't afford enough of the ammo to wear out my expensive sig to find out just how rough the stuff is on the gun, but it didnt blow up with the 2 mags of it that I tested.

[MikePapa1]

Yes, it can handle +P. I love mine. I have no question about it being safe cocked and locked. I have an RKBA pocket holster and have no concerns about accidentally releasing the safety. Great little gun.