Vmax for Home Defense

[Guest Crud]

What are your opinions on a varmint bullet for a man stopper? Particularly a 60 grain shot out of an AR15.

I'm really just looking for some decent man stoppers I can buy in bulk for when the SHTF.

[Guest GunTroll]

If I got shot with one I'd stop bothering you.

[Caster]

If I got shot with one I'd stop bothering you.

^ this

[LagerHead]

Hell I'd stop bothering him if he shot me with a bb gun. I don't like getting shot. By the way, why are we bothering him?

[Guest TnValleyBulletman]

I have shot a bunch of 4 legged varmints with the 60 gr. V max and a couple of deer. I didn't have to shoot any of them twice. I tend to think they would work well on two legged varmints too.

[JeffL]

I've got 60gr TAP in my AR at the moment. I don't know if they're using VMAX or AMAX bullets in those, but I think it'll get the job done. Less likely to sail through a bunch of walls than FMJ.

[Caster]

Tap is Amax. The Vmax or the Amax will work absolutely.

[Guest Crud]

So what is the difference between Vmax and Amax? Will a 75 grain Amax fin in an AR mag?

[Caster]

It's what I'm shooting, but the length is something to consider. [of course I reload mine]

One other BIG concern is twist. The 75g may not stabilize with slower twist rates. It does wonderful in my 1/7.

The difference, well the Vmax is made for rapid dang near explosive expansion for little critters. The Amax is made for super accurate shooting. I've read that they are not even recommended for hunting but, I've read even more that say contrary. I will be hunting deer this fall with a 168g Amax in my 308. I don't expect any issues or long, involved tracking either.

[Alleycat72]

When I tested the 40 gr V-Max @ 3460 fps in wet news print, I got about 6 inches of penetration. There was a massive wound channel and very little left that resembled a bullet. As a PDR, I’d say that’s about as good as it gets.

[Caster]

I knew you'd be along shortly.

[dlm37015]

i use 75 grain with a 1/12 twist you should see the wound channel not very good for target shooting but great for across the yard.the 223/5.56 to be a great combat round should have a 1/12 twist so that when the bullet hits something it will become very unstable

[mikegideon]

I have one 20 round PMAG loaded with VMAX's sitting on top of my safe. That's what was on my mind when I loaded it, even though it's not sitting on ready.

[Jonnin]

Vmax is great BUT those soft tips get mangled in my semi-auto (.223 cal, may not be so bad for larger rounds). They can have a bit of feeding issues due to this, and long range accuracy (not important for defense) may suffer with a mangled tip. If they work well in your gun I suspect they would be great for defense.

[DaveTN]

If I got shot with one I'd stop bothering you.

Sure…. But will it make you unable to fire your weapon?

[mikegideon]

Vmax is great BUT those soft tips get mangled in my semi-auto (.223 cal, may not be so bad for larger rounds). They can have a bit of feeding issues due to this, and long range accuracy (not important for defense) may suffer with a mangled tip. If they work well in your gun I suspect they would be great for defense.

Can't say thet I've seen that on my AR, but they go down the pipe once they're chambered. They group OK at 100

[mikegideon]

Sure…. But will it make you unable to fire your weapon?

You mean, after he got done going Owwwwwwww?

[Guest TnValleyBulletman]

i use 75 grain with a 1/12 twist you should see the wound channel not very good for target shooting but great for across the yard.the 223/5.56 to be a great combat round should have a 1/12 twist so that when the bullet hits something it will become very unstable

That's what i was thinking too. For home defense or a "yard gun", don't fret about stability. If it hits some dude and starts tumbling his troubles just multiplied.

[Jonnin]

Can't say thet I've seen that on my AR, but they go down the pipe once they're chambered. They group OK at 100

They usually *shoot* fine, but if I eject one (unloading the gun etc) the nose is always bent up pretty badly, and the first round in the mag gave a bit of feeding troubles a few times. Most of them feed properly after that first round, but a very small handful clogged up. Im sure it varies a lot from gun to gun --- both my 223s are relatively cheap (PLR & Mini 14) and the PLR can be a little bit picky from time to time. It probably didnt help that they were handloads using the vmax bullets but they were in specs for the rounds & if not the best made loads ever, were not odd in any way.

[mikegideon]

They usually *shoot* fine, but if I eject one (unloading the gun etc) the nose is always bent up pretty badly, and the first round in the mag gave a bit of feeding troubles a few times. Most of them feed properly after that first round, but a very small handful clogged up. Im sure it varies a lot from gun to gun --- both my 223s are relatively cheap (PLR & Mini 14) and the PLR can be a little bit picky from time to time. It probably didnt help that they were handloads using the vmax bullets but they were in specs for the rounds & if not the best made loads ever, were not odd in any way.

It's easy enough to check. I'll chamber and eject a few when i get time. I have a Mini too.

[leroy]

...I have one 20 round PMAG loaded with VMAX's sitting on top of my safe. That's what was on my mind when I loaded it, even though it's not sitting on ready....

Mike:_______________

Just noticed this post. I had problems using PMAGS (...20 round...) loaded with V-Max rounds in my HBAR ar. I switched to the C Products 20 rounder for V-Max rounds and it solved the problem. I think the "ridge" down the middle of the P Mag tends to hang the plastic tipped rounds up. I think they kick forward to the front of the mag as the AR fires and they hang up either on the "ridge" that guides the follower, or on the front of the mag (...which is plastic...). Bottom line; i dont load plastic tipped rounds in P Mags anymore.

Hope this helps

leroy

[mikegideon]

Mike:_______________

Just noticed this post. I had problems using PMAGS (...20 round...) loaded with V-Max rounds in my HBAR ar. I switched to the C Products 20 rounder for V-Max rounds and it solved the problem. I think the "ridge" down the middle of the P Mag tends to hang the plastic tipped rounds up. I think they kick forward to the front of the mag as the AR fires and they hang up either on the "ridge" that guides the follower, or on the front of the mag (...which is plastic...). Bottom line; i dont load plastic tipped rounds in P Mags anymore.

Hope this helps

leroy

Thanks for the heads up. I haven't shot a lot of them, but so far so good with both Hornady brand and Black Hills. I've only shot them in my big AR so far, not my carbine. I'll grab a couple of different 20 rounders. Most of my mags are 30 round PMAGs. I've had great luck with the using 55 gr ball.

[Jonnin]

Maybe there are different types? My vmax bullets are soft lead tip, copper jacket, no plastic here. (??). I have plastic hornadys in other types, crit defense and the fore-runner to that line, but nothing in 223.

...

Found the box, its not vmax, its sp/sx "varmint" rounds. 55 gr -- "explosive expansion at low velocities" which I got for my short barrel pistol (puts typical loads out at 2600 fps supposedly).

Edited April 14, 2011 by Jonnin

[leroy]

Jonnin:_____________

Here are the bullets i use. Hornady: Hornady V-Max Bullets 22 Caliber (224 Diameter) 55 Grain with Cannelure Box of 100 - MidwayUSA

or Nosler: Nosler Ballistic Tip Varmint Bullets 22 Caliber (224 Diameter) 55 Grain Spitzer Boat Tail - MidwayUSA

I always buy whatever is on sale; but i like both hornady and nosler. The bullets have the "plastic" or "polycarbonate" tip.

I found the same bullet with an exposed lead tip. Here: Hornady Bullets 22 Caliber (224 Diameter) 60 Grain Spire Point Box of 100 - MidwayUSA

Lotsa old timers will tell you they dont like exposed lead in ar type rifles exactly for the reason you may be running into. They will stub into the feed ramp and hang up. I've polished the feed ramps in both the HBAR carbine and a 450 bushy that we have. I think that is a great "reliability enhancer" with any of the AR type firearms.

RE: Mikes comment RE: P Mags. I agree. I think that they are the best mag out there for hardball.

Hope this helps.

leroy

Edited April 14, 2011 by leroy

[Jonnin]

Jonnin:_____________

Here are the bullets i use. Hornady: Hornady V-Max Bullets 22 Caliber (224 Diameter) 55 Grain with Cannelure Box of 100 - MidwayUSA

or Nosler: Nosler Ballistic Tip Varmint Bullets 22 Caliber (224 Diameter) 55 Grain Spitzer Boat Tail - MidwayUSA

I always buy whatever is on sale; but i like both hornady and nosler. The bullets have the "plastic" or "polycarbonate" tip.

I found the same bullet with an exposed lead tip. Here: Hornady Bullets 22 Caliber (224 Diameter) 60 Grain Spire Point Box of 100 - MidwayUSA

Lotsa old timers will tell you they dont like exposed lead in ar type rifles exactly for the reason you may be running into. They will stub into the feed ramp and hang up. I've polished the feed ramps in both the HBAR carbine and a 450 bushy that we have. I think that is a great "reliability enhancer" with any of the AR type firearms.

RE: Mikes comment RE: P Mags. I agree. I think that they are the best mag out there for hardball.

Hope this helps.

leroy

Ah, thanks for the links. It was my first 223 reloading, and the lead tips were on sale... oops. I now have 500 FMJs to work thru and those are much, much better. I will make some defensive stuff eventually, once I am more confident with this round -- sounds like the plastic will be a winner.