Sig .357 ??

[Guest forte10]

Been thinking of picking one up in a P250 combo where I could shoot 40 S&W / 357 by a quick barrel change. Having not shot the .357 before, I am curious what others think of it? I have been anxious to buy something else and torn between this and another AR.

[Magiccarpetrides]

The 357 is a mean round...think 9mm +p+ and then some lol....a lot of hydrostatic shock....quite a few agencies are going back to it over the 40 surprisingly the wildlife officers here in Tn are too.

[JeffL]

You can do the same thing with a Glock 23. I haven't heard many good things about the Sig 250.

[quietguy]

You can do the same thing with a Glock 23. I haven't heard many good things about the Sig 250.

Please expand on your comment.

While there are some ballistic similarities to .40 SW +P, the .357SIG is a whole different animal in terminal performance, especially at range.

I am a huge fan of the .40SW for personal defense. It, IMHO, is the best balance of stopping power, penetration, and magazine capacity. For the purpose of sheer penetration, the .357 SIG and 10mm are superior.

Edited April 11, 2011 by quietguy

[JeffL]

That I would like to see. While there are some ballistic similarities to .40 SW +P, the .357SIG is a whole different animal in terminal performance, especially at range.

What I'm saying is you can swap the barrel on a Glock 23 with a Glock 32 .357 Sig barrel and have a functioning weapon. .357 Sig is just a necked down .40 S&W.

[leroy]

All:________________

I EDC a glock 33 357 sig. We did some testing over a chronograph and it's no problem to get 1275 to 1300 fps out of handloads thru this little cannon (...about a 3.2 inch barrel...). They are accurate (...can hit the 8 inch diameter pie plates at the range at 30 or so yards with ease...), dependable, and are an excellent choice for those who take the time to learn to shoot them. Recoil is sharp (...about like a hot loaded 45acp...), muzzle blast is considerable, and accuracy is great with the 125 grain loads.

In my opinion, the 357 sig is exactly what was claimed for the 9mm in the "eighties revolution" spearheaded by the Air Force that brought the 9mm to the military. The 357 sig will best all other auto pistol calibers (...e.g, the 9mm and 38 super...) in the velocity department by a couple of hundred fps with the 125 grain bullet loading (... given equal barrel lengths...). It is, in fact, a real, high performance 9mm loading. This caliber does, in fact, bring 357 magnum performance in a medium sized auto pistol.

After shooting this little jewel, we rounded up a glock 32 also. The glock is a great choice for this caliber. I would suspect that the sig or any other well made pistol would do as well (...would love to have a sig 239 in this caliber my self!!...).

I now understand why the THP and several other LEO agencies like the sig. They are extremely accurate and pack a helluva punch in a compact package.

By the way: You can convert your 40 s&w (...as others have said...) to 357 sig with a simple barrel change. The case head diameter is the same, so the 40 s&w slide will extract the sig cases.

Hope this helps a bit.

leroy

Edited April 11, 2011 by leroy

[Mark A]

All:________________

I EDC a glock 33 357 sig. Me too...

(...would love to have a sig 239 in this caliber my self!!...) Leroy, you've got to get one. It shoots soooo sweetly out of a 239.

I now understand why the THP and several other LEO agencies like the sig. They are extremely accurate and pack a helluva punch in a compact package. Yep. Shoots straight and the recoil is very manageable to me

Mark

[Guest The Highlander]

Glock 31 for me. The thing shoots like a laser! I love the gun and the round. I've never felt the need for a .40, but if I ever do, I'll just drop a .40 barrel in my G31 and be done with it. Great round.

[McAllyn]

My only issue with the 357 Sig round is overpenetration. Very little will put that round to a dead-stop, excuse the pun. However, the terminal ballistics are impressive.

Mac

[leroy]

Thanks Mark. I been watchin trying to find a 239 "sig factory recondition". They are in the right price range (...about $500.00...) and are a great gun. I like the 239; i think they are just about the optimal size (...and weight...) for a good, solid semiauto. The "reconditioned" 357 sigs seem to dissappear pretty quickly; so there are lots of folks like us out there who like 'em.

Thanks again,

leroy

[hipower]

I've got a Springfield 4" in 357 sig. It is a cannon! Very sharp recoil. Very loud. Tremendous muzzle blast. And deadly accurate.

A blast to shoot, even though it doesn't get a lot of use from me.

[RoDan]

Personally, I'd go the 10mm route (which is what I did when i was in this situation a year ago), and get a bbl to shoot .40. .40 for the range, and 10mm for SD/HD. .357sig is just an intermediate round to me. You have the capacity of a .40 cal gun, shooting smaller bullets. Why not have the same capacity, but still shoot .40 cal bullets while maintaining the incredible velocity? 10mm is where it is at. Double Tap for the personal defense loads, at less than a buck a pop, not too bad. You can get range 10mm ammo for as little as 39 cents a round. Sure you can get .357sig for 30 cents/rd but you aren't making big holes...

[Caster]

All the po-po's here in town carry Glocks in .357 sig. For whatever that's worth. My biggest issue on the 357 sig is, Who wants to pay that kind of dough for ammunition that [in real world performance] is only marginally better. On paper or in a lab it may soar above the humble 9x19, but shoot that sig in low light, inside closed doors. Yikes:stare: I've never fired the 357 sig, but I have fired my SP101 in a confined space, with low light. That was exactly 10 minutes before I decided to go back to carrying my lowly little .45acp.

The Sig is a bad boy, don't mistake me for being prejudice against it. I'd just think there's a few things to consider before making it a duty/carry/defense weapon. That dog bites hard and barks loud!

[leroy]

Food for thought and a little bit of a physics lesson here. Muzzle energy is calculated using the following formula: E= M*V squared/ 2g.

The bottom line is that velocity is a squared variable. That means that an increase from 1200 fps to 1300 fps gives a muzzle energy increase of about 17 (...17.36% to be exact...)%. To get a 17% increase in muzzle energy from a larger bullet; you would have to go from a 165 grain to a 193 grain bullet assuming the same velocity (... assuming a 40 caliber bullet -- by the way; you cant get 1200 fps out of a 40...), and go from a 125 to a 147 grain bullet (...interestin aint it--- by the way, ya cant get 1300 fps out of a 9mm luger at standard pressures either with a 125 grain bullet...) at the same velocity for a 9 mm. There aint any 1300 fps factory loads in either 40 or 9 mm. Here is an interesting discussion of the 9 mm vs 357 sig idea here: HandGunInfo.com: 357SIG: 357 Sig and 9mm Comparison

The bottom line is that it takes something like a 10 mm to do that. For a given bore size; the big hitter in the energy department is velocity. We can quibble about how much velocity is enough; but the great truth of physics is that velocity trumps mass every time in the energy increase department.

I aint tryin to start a "caliber war" here; and i aint advocating that velocity means everything in any gunning situation. But take a look at the 120 mm gun on the Abrams. High velocity plus heavy round (...depleted uranium...); the best of both worlds. Remember, velocity is a "squared" variable. It has a much greater effect on muzzle energy than mass.

To simply blow off the sig as a "warmed over 9mm" is to not fully understand what is going on here. What we are talking about here is exactly why the 10 mm is the greatest of the semiauto handgun calibers (...of reasonable size...). It combines both large mass (...up to 200 grains...) with high velocity (...1200 fps in top handloads...), ala 120 mm Abrams tank gun technology.

Hope this gives a bit of a new perspective on the relation between velocity and bullet weight in your favorite hand cannon.

leroy

(...sometimes this stuff even makes my little bald head hurt!...)

Edited April 11, 2011 by leroy

[Mark A]

^^^^^^^

Plus it's fun as heck to shoot...

I know, that probably doesn't account for anything but...

Even though it is the last caliber I started loading for and even though I don't have it totally dialed in yet, this is the reason I started reloading. Once you have some brass built up it is only a tiny bit more $$ to load than 9mm.

Mark

Edited April 11, 2011 by Mark A

[Magiccarpetrides]

I know where a nice P229 in 357 sig is at for a bargain price *wink* *wink*

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/firearms-classifieds/54649-sig-p229r-357sig-dak-trigger-nights.html#post701487

[leroy]

....I know where a nice P229 in 357 sig is at for a bargain price *wink* *wink*

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/firearms-classifieds/54649-sig-p229r-357sig-dak-trigger-nights.html#post701487

I like it!!!

Keep up the good work.

leroy

RE: Marks post here:

...I know, that probably doesn't account for anything but...

Even though it is the last caliber I started loading for and even though I don't have it totally dialed in yet, this is the reason I started reloading. Once you have some brass built up it is only a tiny bit more $$ to load than 9mm. ....

Mark is exactly right here. Reloading solves all the ammo problems with this or any other caliber (...especially the hard kickers and high performance loads...). The more you reload, the more you can tailor your loads to what you want to do. The more you shoot. The more you shoot, the better your marksmanship becomes. Mark is being modest here, reloading counts for a lot.

leroy

Edited April 11, 2011 by leroy

[Guest Tnbusarider]

I have had several handguns in .357 sig! My favorite was a Sig 239, that I regertfully traded for something bigger or better! The other was a Glock 27 that had a .357 barrel that I swapped with the .40. Again I traded! The .357sig is very accurate, and imo, about the same recoil as the .40! I will have another .357 sig in my collection, just as soon as can find one I can't live with out! You won't be under gunned with this round!

[Mark A]

You know, I waited quite a while to find a used 33. The subcompacts are the only Glocks I enjoy shooting.

I passed up a lot of used 27's not thinking about getting a spare barrel even though I have 3 different 40/357 barrels sets for Sigs.

Momma always told me to be nice since I wasn't going to be the sharpest stick in the woods....

[RobertNashville]

I've no wish to get into a debate of what is "better" or "best"...what I will say is that after being a 1911 guy in .45ACP for decades as well as a lover of 10MM (I have a G20 and a Kimber Eclipse 10MM and I've had others in 10MM); my Glock 31 is becoming my primary carry weapon for many of the reasons cited above.

My Glock 20 is the handgun in my nightstand and that is with me around the home until bedtime but for me, the Gloc,31/.357Sig is the perfect package of capacity, dependability and power for carry purposes.

That said, let's keep in mind that NO handgun round is "best" when it comes to personal defense; getting the rounds into something vital is FAR more important than what caliber of handgun you happen to be using.

[323ssplt]

I have always liked the 357 SIG round. It has more energy than the 9mm, has a different less snappy recoil than that of the 40 and is a more reliable round due to its bottle neck design.

I personally have a Glock 31 that I love.

My wife swaps between carrying a 1911 and her Sig 239 in 357 Sig.

My dad switches back and forth between a Glock 30Sf and a Glock 33 in 357 Sig.

My mother keeps both a Taurus Judge and a Sig 239 in 357 Sig as her house guns.

[Guest Ken45]

While there are some ballistic similarities to .40 SW +P,

??? There are no SAAMI specs for 40SW +P, the round is maxed out to start with. 10mm is a safe way of upping 40SW performance if need be. Personally, upping 40SW pressures scares me. YMMV

My understanding is the 357Sig's big advantage for law enforcement is that it has superior barrier penetration through car doors, windshields, etc.

I have thought about giving it a try via a barrel swap (Sig P226/40) but I don't want to get involved with reloading a bottleneck cartridge. I think if I ever added another caliber it would be 10mm. If I want .357Sig ballistics, I'll just use my 357 revolver

Ken

Edited April 16, 2011 by Ken45

[leroy]

Ken:_________________

Had the same thought when i started with the sig. :

...have thought about giving it a try via a barrel swap (Sig P226/40) but I don't want to get involved with reloading a bottleneck cartridge. I think if I ever added another caliber it would be 10mm. If I want .357Sig ballistics, I'll just use my 357 revolver ....

I bought some dies, a case gage, and some Starch reprocessed 357 sig brass. To my delight and surprise; no difference in loading a "bottleneck" pistol cartridge after the dies were set up. Evidently, the sig headspaces on the case mouth and you dont get the "case stretch" you usually get with the rifle type cartridges. The only thing to watch for is to use the case gage to set up the sizing die to bump the case shoulder back "just enough" to form the case correctly. Took all of about 2 minutes.

The bottom line is that there is no problem reloading the sig. As to the 357 sig vs the 357 mag discussion. I agree, the 357 mag whoops the sig hands down. What the sig brings to the party is a medium size semiauto pistol and light bullet 357 mag type performance. It can't compete with the heavier bullets.

RE: The 10mm. I like 'em too. Real magnum performance in a semiauto handgun. That's a great thing.

Hope this helps.

leroy

[Guest forte10]

All the information is a great help as it has really narrowed it down to selecting the right caliber. Unfortunately Glock's don't fit my hand so well and I wish that Sig made a 10mm without going too crazy on retro-fitting a current firearm. I think the .357 Sig is a caliber that I will pick up just to have on hand as it is something that appears to have great reviews from those that own one. Can't argue though with the tried and true .357 Magnum for all out stopping power.

[Guest Ken45]

Leroy,

Ah! thanks for the info re reloading the bottleneck .357Sig. I'll keep that in mind.

forte10:

Grayguns does do a 10mm mod of an all steel Sig P220. It's a somewhat expensive approach IMO ;-) Not being a Glock person, if I wanted to go 10mm I would be looking for a Dan Wesson 1911 or a Colt Delta Elite. Tangfolio (sp?) does a 10mm sa/da that people like.

Ken