Republicans cave on government shut down, agree to 38B in cuts and no PP defunding

[Just2Honor]

+1 on both comments by crimsonaudio. The whole thing was a "show" by both sides.

[Guest HvyMtl]

A few things. First, the Planned Parenthood stuff? Idiotic, political pandering.

Why? This: Hyde Amendment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Hyde Amendment DIRECTLY BLOCKS ALL FEDERAL FUNDS and TAX PAYER DOLLARS FROM ANY ABORTION FUNDING.

So. Planned Parenthood spends ZERO DOLLARS of tax payer funds on abortions. PP spends ZERO TAX DOLLARS on Abortions. To do so is illegal.

In effect, PP uses a TOTAL OF 3%, or less, of their budget on "Abortion Services," including counseling, which can talk women out of abortions...

So, what was this? This was a direct attempt to appease the Old School Republican Base (Conservative Christian...) And sadly, it comes across as an attack on Women's Health, rather than prevent abortions.

(I do find it odd that the GOP want the Government to be "hands off," unless it is women's sex organs...)

Other thing: The Dems were ready for these antics. And made the GOP look Anti-U.S. Troops. "The Government Shuts Down, the Troops won't get paid," was placed at the foot of the GOP. Smart move. And effective.

Third Thing: The GOP got crushed, hard, badly, and politically, the last Government Shutdown. The last Shutdown made Clinton untouchable, and his approval rating never fell below 50+% from then on, while the GOP lost control of the Congress... Due to this, and similarities to the present day, the GOP caved, rather than take the political blame for the Shutdown. Harshly darned if they do, less harshly darned if they don't. So they picked "don't."

But, this small level of cutting is like placing a single sandbag in front of a 15 meter tall tsunami.

Oh, and the Dems WON this, if you look at the amount actually cut, vs. proposed starting amounts. The Dems only wanted 33 Bil, the GOP around 61 Bil, and the actual cut was 38 Bil...

Considering the amount in the Budget NOT covered. We are screwed. And this is only THIS year's budget, they haven't even touched next year's...

So. Until We The People get serious about our Government, and realize we cannot Cut Taxes while fighting wars, be the world's beat Cop, subsidize the rest of the world by spend $ diplomacy, give benefits to illegals, give too many benefits to the able to work who choose not to, and give tax breaks to those who take jobs and move them overseas, lowering the incomes of citizens, We The People will lose...

Edited April 9, 2011 by HvyMtl

[Links2k]

Yah, the point is, if the repubs aren't willing to dig their heals in and fight for substantive change now, when will they? They received as close to a mandate form the public as I've ever seen on the platform of cutting spending, and while technically they have dome that, I guarantee not one real fiscal conservative is happy with this.

If any repubs try to tout this as some sort of 'step in the right direction', I'll give 100% effort to remove them from office in 2012. We have to make some REAL changes NOW, I don't care if the senate and WH will shoot down everything - it's time to make a stand.

But alas, our politicians are too busy emulating the Roman Empire (intentional or not, doesn't matter) to deal with the single biggest threat to our country.

It's pathetic political pandering, period (alliteration intentional).

This! I am laughing my behind off because some of you had expectations that "BONER"and his crew would produce. Both gangs (gop and dems) are in this thing together and it's us (the people) vs them (politicians and giant corporations).

Stop eating up the talking points and party lines and demand accountability.

[Guest HvyMtl]

"This! I am laughing my behind off because some of you had expectations that "BONER"and his crew would produce. Both gangs (gop and dems) are in this thing together and it's us (the people) vs them (politicians and giant corporations).

Stop eating up the talking points and party lines and demand accountability."

THIS!

But sadly, the people have lived so long with the either GOP or Dem sides of the same coin, they seem to forget how to demand accountability...

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Life has few unambiguous wins or losses. A bigger reduction would have been nice, but on the other hand we haven't had ANY reductions for many years and congress routinely passes new-spending legislation much bigger then $40 billion.

The rare instance of the spending going down rather than up is not a bad thing, in spite of a "mere" $40 billion being a rounding error compared to the magnitude of the pickle we are in.

An even-handed "sword of solomon" method to cut PBS and Planned Parenthood (which would step on too many toes and gore too many oxen)-- Pass legislation terminating ALL govt subsidy of EVERY non-profit corporation. Along with Planned Parenthood and NPR, also cut art committees, Lawrence Welk museums, science research foundations, ecological groups, private charities, and churches (both liberal and conservative churches). Stop subsidizing ALL 501 C-x non-profits.

Some people don't like tax money going to liberal causes. Some people don't like tax money going to conservative causes. Just stop it all. Throw all the babies out with all the bath water.

After we do that, then the next agenda item is to terminate ALL subsidies to ALL for-profit corporations.

[Mr. Brooks]

Other thing: The Dems were ready for these antics. And made the GOP look Anti-U.S. Troops. "The Government Shuts Down, the Troops won't get paid," was placed at the foot of the GOP. Smart move. And effective.

It's funny you say that, because every military person I've talked to about this (including myself) sees it as an attack on the military by the dems.

Remember Obama decides who gets paid and who doesn't during a government shutdown.

Right now you have service members in harms way looking at their LES and seeing that they are currently being paid only 1/4 of their monthly income. They are going to be worried about their spouse back home being able to pay the bills, and that kind of distraction can be deadly in a combat zone.

The dems are playing with the lives of our service members, and I hope they pay for it come election day.

[Links2k]

I hope that they all pay come election day.

[LagerHead]

So, your son in little league; goes all season with constant strike outs... and in the last game, he gets a base hit. Not a home run, but a base hit. He's still a loser in your eyes, right?

Huge difference. I don't measure my son's worth by his ability to play sports. As a matter of fact he isn't very good at sports. But at 12 years old he can program in Visual Basic, C#, and Java better than I will ever hope to.

On the other hand, I DO measure my politicians by their ability to do what WE the taxpayers pay them to do. And they suck the big one at it. So yea, they're losers. Big time. In every sense of the word. I could go on, but you get the picture.

The point is they promised to make cuts that would make a difference. What they have done is akin to not ordering a fifth glass of wine with dinner and calling it saving. Bull. When you've change the situation from being in the hole $1.65 trillion to being in the hole $1.62 trillion that's not at all impressive.

[Steelharp]

It's only a "huge difference" because he matters to you. The analogy is valid.

[G27]

It's only a "huge difference" because he matters to you. The analogy is valid.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/national-politics-legislation/55894-republicans-cave-government-shut-down-agree-38b-cuts-no-pp-defunding.html#post714433

[Steelharp]

crimson, your candor is appreciated.

[G27]

I do what I can.

hehe

[mav]

Ya know, I really don't understand why a lot of people are so upset over the deal that was brokered. Yes, the cut of 30 plus billion is peanuts when compared to the size of the budget. Heck, the 60 plus billion the republicans originally wanted was peanuts. Do you honestly think that if republicans would have dug in their heels and refused to compromise and allowed the government to shutdown that democrats would have seen the light and caved in to the republican's demands? If so, please tell me tell how nice it living in Fantasyland.

Do you not remember the hubris of the socialist party (dems) when they were passing the energy bills and Obamacare? The vast majority of americans did not want it and screamed at their representatives to vote against it. Not only did they pass such abhorent legislation, they rubbed it in our faces. Remember the video of Pelosi walking down the street with the huge gavel? There is no way in hell that the socialist party is going to lose their spine just because the republican party forced a shutdown. If the republicans had of forced a shutdown at this point, what would we have gained? Not much. This was just one battle in what is going to be a long war. Did we gain much from the first battle? No, but we did move in the right direction a few inches.

The next and more important confrontation will be the FY 2012 budget, which should be voted on by September. The Ryan plan won't fix all of our problems, and we will still be incurring debt under the proposal, which Ryan honestly admits. However, it is a good start towards getting our fiscal house in order. One thing I would like to mention here is that so many people are pissing and moaning about how the republicans and democrats are the same. Yes, some of them are and they need to be dealt with, but we also have some that are really good and they understand the gravity of our fiscal situation. The republican controlled house did pass a repeal on Obamacare this year. Yes, I know a lot of it was political posturing, but they still passed it. Under the Ryan plan, Obamacare is defunded, which says to me that the republicans are serious about fixing some of the problems the democrats have given us over the last 4 years.

I guess what I am trying to say is don't give up. That type of attitude is what gave us Pelosi and Reid in the first place. If you want things to move at a faster place, which is what we all want, then we will have to regain the senate and vote Prez. Candyass out of office. Until then, we can continue to fight and gain a little ground here and there, but don't expect monumental change with control of only 1/3 of the federal government. I will take any step in the right direction at this point. One other thing, our current fiscal situation was not brought about by a few years of reckless spending, but by decades of it. It is going to take more than a mere four months to fix this mess.

The Tea Party brought about an almost record breaking victory in 2008. If it can happen again in 2012, then I expect to see some enormous changes.

[G27]

Debt Jumped $54.1 Billion in 8 Days Preceding Obama-Boehner Deal to Cut $38.5 Billion for Rest of Year | CNSnews.com

[JayC]

Obama decided that the military was "non-essential". As it stands according to my LES I will only receive 1/4 my normal monthly pay.

Of course the welfare checks will go out in full and on time.

The military was not counted in that 800,000 number... Obama was playing a game with the military... at any point he could have chosen to pay the military but wanted to put more pressure on the Republicans to cave.

[kieefer]

BHO is a habitual liar and deciver. Might as well say that about most on the left.

Mike Pence, Paul Ryan, Bachmann are a few that are trustworthy...IMO.

[mikegideon]

There's a lot to talk about here, but one point sticks out. Last time the government shut down, the Dems gained some power, and the Repubs lost some. As much as the politics of it sucks, the Repubs need to gain a LOT MORE power to pull off a true conservative agenda. I hate the fact that everybody in DC is playing to keep their jobs. Still, they can't do anything that will help get Obama reelected. If history is worth anything, that's exactly what a shutdown would have done.

[Mike.357]

just shows that there is no difference at all between Dem's and Repub's. None, not an iota.

If I applied this method to my personal budget I would save about 35 bucks a year.

Real stand up group there in DC.

**** them all, it is time to start over.

[Links2k]

BHO is a habitual liar and deciver. Might as well say that about most on the left.

Mike Pence, Paul Ryan, Bachmann are a few that are trustworthy...IMO.

Are you intentionally trying to make people laugh?

[Links2k]

just shows that there is no difference at all between Dem's and Repub's. None, not an iota.

If I applied this method to my personal budget I would save about 35 bucks a year.

Real stand up group there in DC.

**** them all, it is time to start over.

I agree, but some people think that these few are the exception (Mike Pence, Paul Ryan, Bachmann). I believe they are until they have to make real decisions. Just like us forum dwellers it's easy to have the answers standing on the sidelines.

[Links2k]

None of them are any good for us, but until we start sifting thru the hot button issues and talking points we will continue to get the trash that we have on both sides. Every election they start talking about sissies and abortion to get your mind off of the money burning wars, budget, jobs and the economy. To me until they address the border, budget and economy they are just blowing smoke up our arses.

To attack PP and eco regs while there are bigger issues shows that we are being played for suckers.

[kieefer]

I agree, but some people think that these few are the exception (Mike Pence, Paul Ryan, Bachmann). I believe they are until they have to make real decisions. Just like us forum dwellers it's easy to have the answers standing on the sidelines.

The problem is our representives and we voted to clean a lot out last time. If you know of some that you hold high regard for, I'd be interested in knowing who they are. It sounds like no one would suit you.

[LagerHead]

It's only a "huge difference" because he matters to you. The analogy is valid.

No it's really not. This would be a better analogy:

You have an employee that continuously defies your orders. After several repeated warning to do what he's told you finally have no choice but to fire him. You hire a new employee and explain the history you had with the old employee. He assures you that not only will he meet your expectations but that he will exceed them. Hopeful but not overly optimistic you hire him. On his first big assignment he completely fails to do what you hired him to do. And what do you do now? Give him a raise? Not I.

[Guest HvyMtl]

It's funny you say that, because every military person I've talked to about this (including myself) sees it as an attack on the military by the dems.

Remember Obama decides who gets paid and who doesn't during a government shutdown.

Right now you have service members in harms way looking at their LES and seeing that they are currently being paid only 1/4 of their monthly income. They are going to be worried about their spouse back home being able to pay the bills, and that kind of distraction can be deadly in a combat zone.

The dems are playing with the lives of our service members, and I hope they pay for it come election day.

Interestingly, the Media played it the other way, placing the blame at the Gop's door...

[mikegideon]

Interestingly, the Media played it the other way, placing the blame at the Gop's door...

Big surprise there