Killer of Police Officer may have purchased a pistol at a gunshow.

[Guest Travtastik]

hes a felony convict. However he got his gun, it was illegal and whoever sold it to him made a mistake. If it was a face to face, he could have lied to the person, but that does show the flaw in TN gun laws (allowing face to face trades without a check). Part of the cleanup that needs to be done is to make face to face transfers FREE at dealers or the police dpt or someplace, so the proper background check can be done for FREE to ensure that the buyer is legit. Both sides win: gun owners would appreciate free checks, and gun control freaks get to feel better that guns only change hands after a check.

A friend of mine was selling a gun to a guy over the weekend and the guy said he was legal to own one. After a few mins of going back and forth over price the guy said something about how he wanted one of these guns since before he went to prison. The guy had not payed my friend yet so he told him after he thought about it he just could part with it and took it and left.

[Guest RevScottie]

If they can prove you knew, then yes, a big one. If they can't prove you knew, then no.

I'll bet they could make life Hell for you while they were trying to prove it though!

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

I can only guess just like everyone else, and it is my guess that since he was a convicted felon that the gun came from the street from another thug and not from any gun show.

As far as a background checks they really also dont matter all that much, most folks who are not allowed to own a gun are not going to stand in a gun store trying to buy one anyway. We may well could make it harder for a prohibited person to get a gun if we required a BGC for a FTF sale but it still would not stop anyone who really wanted a gun from getting one.

And even a person who passes a background check today could commit a crime tomorrow or even later today for that matter, the BGC is about one's history and not a guarantee of their future. It is a nice "feel good" thing but I dont think it stops any crime and is just another way for the state to make money.

Making folks "feel" better" and making money are what the state is supposed to do, but neither stops crime IMHO

Edited April 7, 2011 by Sgt. Joe
spallin

[Oh Shoot]

I can only guess just like everyone else, and it is my guess that since he was a convicted felon that the gun came from the street from another thug and not from any gun show...

He was already wanted for a robbery in CO since his release, according to news. So presumably he already had at least one gun before he left that state, seems.

- OS

[Guest RevScottie]

If the recent physical description I saw on FB was accurate he was definitely at the gun show at the Chattanooga National Guard Armory. He looked nothing like the picture the media has been showing. I literally ran into him in the middle of the aisle. He was just browsing the tables like everyone else.

[Mike.357]

It's not like you can have any sort of control over anything after you sell it... It's up to the buyer as to how they use it.

Funny, but you never hear anyone screaming for background checks or tighter controls of motor vehicle sales, after someone gets drunk and kills a pedestrian while driving.

I sold a truck back in about 1992 to a guy. Less than a week later he hit and killed two woman in it. He was drunk as hell at 10 AM and they were on their way to church. My wife was watching the local news and saw the film of the results of the wreck, it was my truck no doubt. I felt no guilt in the deal, but I was pissed at what he did to my baby.

[Jonnin]

Well I'll bite... what words were put in your mouth? The only ones I saw that were attributed to you were the ones in your own posts.

So unless somebody has taken over your keyboard...

Ooo ooo.... can we stick our hands up the back of your shirt and make your lips and eyes move too???

Seriously, maybe you're too "sensitive" for this whole internet business...

It was here:

I suppose you think that if we banned guns outright there'd be no gun crime, too...

Which is totally unlike anything I said at all.

---------------

And the general sarcasm that destroyed the entire discussion. But if you insist, I can be a jerk too.

Apparently, if the TN government made this law, it would be "gun control": All background checks and gun checks (serial number) shall be done for free upon demand, but not required.

I conceded right away that mandatory checks would be uncool -- someone corrected me, and I agreed. The idea was twofold: saves all of us money, and if we WANT to we can, as a seller, check the buyer, and we can, as a buyer, verify that the gun is not stolen/flagged. If we do not want to, we can just face to face and skip the checks.

No one had a single constructive thing to say about that, not you nor anyone else: the discussion is pointless due to sarcasm and irrational jackassery.

Now for real, forget it, I give and am not going to bother with the thread again -- there is no discussion worth having here now.

[G27]

The point was you were proposing that we enact new legislation in order to make something difficult for law-abiding citizens in order to stop criminals from getting guns. It's like a page right out of the Brady Bunch handbook - it's fantasy to assume it would stop criminals.

And seriously, if your panties are in a wad over this discussion, maybe the internet isn't your thing...

[RobertNashville]

It was here: Which is totally unlike anything I said at all...

Really; I mean no disrespect but I think you are being more than a little thin-skinned here.

This is the internet after all; not an afternoon tea...sometimes people get out of line...sometimes they get downright insulting...sometimes they are simply a**h***s but even then but I didn't see anything like that in this thread.

[Guest Jamie]

the discussion is pointless due to sarcasm and irrational jackassery.

My brother and his police chief went to Chattanooga yesterday to attend the funeral of the officer this thread is about. And the only "irrational jackassery" is the notion that any gun control law or background check could have made the reason for that trip unnecessary. There's already plenty such nonsense on the books, and it didn't help a bit; the officer is still dead. Therefore it should be abundantly clear that adding more won't be any real improvement.

[Guest Jamie]

Oh, and this:

It was here:

I suppose you think that if we banned guns outright there'd be no gun crime, too...

Which is totally unlike anything I said at all.

You need to work on your reading comprehension, 'cause that wasn't anybody putting words in your mouth. It was a question/supposition based on the thoughts you've voiced here... that thought being that you seem to believe that gun laws have some power over criminal behavior.

Edit: One last thing... Anybody who has a concern or suspicion about a person they're considering selling a gun to... Tell the person that you need their full name and social security number, so you can run it by the local LE agency. 5 will get you 10 that if the person isn't on the level they'll suddenly not want to buy your gun.

The point here is that you don't need any FBI/TBI database, or legislated background check to check a person out, just a little common sense.

Edited April 8, 2011 by Jamie

[leroy]

Folks, Jamie hit a home run here:

...Edit: One last thing... Anybody who has a concern or suspicion about a person they're considering selling a gun to... Tell the person that you need their full name and social security number, so you can run it by the local LE agency. 5 will get you 10 that if the person isn't on the level they'll suddenly not want to buy your gun.

The point here is that you don't need any FBI/TBI database, or legislated background check to check a person out, just a little common sense. ...

The problem aint more legislated anything. The problem(s) are the guy who did the robbing and killing; not the folks that sold him the gun. That is the personal responsiblilty problem. The robber will be tried for murder and robbery.

The second problem is the Colorado judge and parole board that turned this thug out. In my opinion, they are the "real criminals" here; but they will never be charged, tried or punished for their crimes.

More law hardly ever fixes anything or deters it (...especially now...). I contend that leniency in the law undoubtedly contributed to this tragedy. If you want to assign blame for this, i say it's 50/50 parole board/thug. If this hoodlum had have been bustin rocks in a prison quarry somewhere instead of being "rehabilitated" by a bunch of mush head "social engineers" or if he had been identified as a sociopath (...which i think he is...); he would have never have been allowed out, and no one else would have been endangered. Folks need to think about all that for a bit, and figure out for themselves who the "real criminals" are in this tragic story.

leroy

[Mike.357]

Isn't 25 bucks about what a place charges to do a transfer? Even with another ten bucks for a TICS check added on, that in itself should not be enough to stop someone who is bent on a safe sale from doing it this way.

So why bother with another law? No point to it.

[Superposed]

I guess I would be under suspicion if an individual on an individual sale asked me for my name and social security number. I won't give out my social security number for any individual to check out. Just isn't very smart to do that.

[Pengnpup]

UPDATE. According to the Chattanoogan: "Authorities said family members kept a cache of 16 guns taken during the robbery of the Cash of America in Colorado Springs and provided them to Jesse Mathews"

4/7/2011 - Family Of Jesse Mathews Taken Into Custody - Breaking News - Chattanoogan.com

The whole family was arrested. The whole family are Pieces of s---.

[RobertNashville]

I guess I would be under suspicion if an individual on an individual sale asked me for my name and social security number. I won't give out my social security number for any individual to check out. Just isn't very smart to do that.

Nor would I...I don't mind showing my DL (which doesn't show my SSN) or other pieces of ID but I won't give my SSN to anybody if I don't have to.

Frankly, if I thinking of transferring a firearm to someone and I have ANY reason to be suspicious (or even just a "bad feeling") then I'm simply not going to do the deal - it just isn't worth the risk...I would hope that if anyone felt the same of me they would be conscientious enough to do the same.

[Guest Jamie]

It occurs to me that if I distrust a person enough to not want to give them my SSN, then I probably don't trust them enough to be buying a gun from 'em...

But then I generally only buy from gun shops or people I know...

[Guest Red5]

UPDATE. According to the Chattanoogan: "Authorities said family members kept a cache of 16 guns taken during the robbery of the Cash of America in Colorado Springs and provided them to Jesse Mathews"

4/7/2011 - Family Of Jesse Mathews Taken Into Custody - Breaking News - Chattanoogan.com

The whole family was arrested. The whole family are Pieces of s---.

Hopefully our legal system will be more effective this time around. I'm glad that this incident resulted in taking all of them off the street but that's a high price to pay.

Reminds you how necessary it is to remain legally armed. I'm looking through my office window at the Rustic Village right now.

[RobertNashville]

It occurs to me that if I distrust a person enough to not want to give them my SSN, then I probably don't trust them enough to be buying a gun from 'em...

But then I generally only buy from gun shops or people I know...

It's really a chicken or the egg argument isn't it? If i really believed I needed to check a guy out (including asking for his SSN) why would I consider selling to him at all...if you feel you need a person's SSN number to check him out why would you consider selling a firearm to him?

I don't buy from anyone I don't trust and I don't sell to anyone I don't trust.

[G27]

Heck, I just don't sell guns.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

It's really a chicken or the egg argument isn't it? If i really believed I needed to check a guy out (including asking for his SSN) why would I consider selling to him at all...if you feel you need a person's SSN number to check him out why would you consider selling a firearm to him?

I don't buy from anyone I don't trust and I don't sell to anyone I don't trust.

Not me, I will sell to anybody and buy from anybody, that tells me they're not a felon and they live in TN and they're older then 21. How can you look at someone for the first time and not trust them? I've had some friends that looked like street thugs. But they were law abiding citizens.

[DaveTN]

Unless things have changed, I would have a tough time checking someone out with their name and SSN. It would be pretty easy with their name a DOB. But until I’m required to I wouldn’t even try on a gun sale.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

Unless things have changed, I would have a tough time checking someone out with their name and SSN. It would be pretty easy with their name a DOB. But until I’m required to I wouldn’t even try on a gun sale.

You need their SS number so you can do a credit check on them to see if they can afford the gun or not.

[Guest RevScottie]

I think the bigger question brought to mind in this particular case is what steps can I take to be sure that I am not receiving a stolen gun when I buy or trade with an individual? Some guy is now in possession of guns stolen from Colorado after making a trade at the show at the Armory. He has a world of trouble coming if the FBI comes knocking on his door.

[Guest Jamie]

I think some of you are missing the point... It's not the actual background check, or even what info you ask for, that's important. It's the person's reaction to you telling them you're going to check that'll tell you ( or it would me, anyhow ) whether or not you want to deal with 'em.

Ask for whatever info you think is appropriate... full name, DOB, DL number, SSN... it doesn't matter. 'Cause I seriously doubt someone who's got a felony conviction, or is just up to no good, is gonna want anybody poking around their history, or you having any piece of info that could be traced back to them.

In all likelihood you'll not need to do a check, if the person is really questionable. They'll be wanting to take their business elsewhere, to somebody more... private.