Shocking Carry Permit Police harassment in Philidelphia, PA

[ProjectDexter]

Some of you might have seen this already, pretty interesting situation here. Like to know ya'lls opinion on this, and if any of you that open carry have had issues here in TN.

Philadelphia Open-carrier Harassed by Police with Audio

Kind of a long listen, I'm only through the first part myself.

Edited April 6, 2011 by ProjectDexter

[Guest nicemac]

How many people walk around open carrying AND recording audio just in case they get in trouble? He was recording before the officer approached him.

Sounds to me like he was out looking for trouble.

Edited April 6, 2011 by nicemac

[CQB Elite]

The permit holder is a douche. It doesn't matter if his permit allows open carry or not. He should have complied with the officer's commands and let them sort it out....

[mikegideon]

Kwik needs to head up to Philly and set those boys straight.

[ProjectDexter]

Apparently Philly police are bad on stuff like this. I have a recording app on my Iphone and I always turn it on when I am speaking with LEO's, specifically in Nashville. I know most the guys here in my town so it's normally a non-issue. I do not, however, open carry. But I probably would if I lived in Philly, the situation ended with the COP saying my bad and giving him back all his stuff, weapon included. Nice.

[ProjectDexter]

The permit holder is a douche. It doesn't matter if his permit allows open carry or not. He should have complied with the officer's commands and let them sort it out....

I partially agree, however, if the officer knew the laws of the county he works and lives in then the issue would have been minor at best IMO. Seems like it would be one of the more important laws to know off-hand.

[Bigiron]

Sounds to me these officers were nothing less than thugs. Those recordings, when played to a jury, will make the citizen a wealthy man. That being said, common sense tells me to not open carry and invite bad situations. JMHO.

[mikegideon]

Sounds to me these officers were nothing less than thugs. Those recordings, when played to a jury, will make the citizen a wealthy man. That being said, common sense tells me to not open carry and invite bad situations. JMHO.

How is that? Where are the damages? Why did seasoned Philly cops detain this guy to begin with? Could it be that they NEVER see open carry around there? This guy was fishing for the whole thing. Kwik Jr.

[JReedEsq]

How is that? Where are the damages? Why did seasoned Philly cops detain this guy to begin with? Could it be that they NEVER see open carry around there? This guy was fishing for the whole thing. Kwik Jr.

Bingo!

[RobertNashville]

After listened to the whole set of recordings; my take on this is…

The fellow was an idiot for initially arguing with the police – arguing with a LEO is really never a good idea; arguing with a LEO when he’s drawing down on you and giving you orders is truly idiotic. There is a place for arguments about what the police did and didn’t do and should or shouldn’t have done but the street when it’s going down is NOT that place.

The whole “I always carry a tape recorded with me” bit seems really questionable to me…I can’t help but think that this guy was out looking to make an issue.

I think the police did overact.

Although it was an overreaction; I don’t think the reaction should be all that big of a surprise – this is Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; not Bucksnort, Tennessee . My point being that while you might be able to openly carry in Bucksnort without even raising an eyebrow that doesn’t mean you can do the same in a major city (especially a major northern city) and expect the same non-reaction EVEN IF THE OPEN CARRYING IS PERFECTLY LEGAL.

So; to sum up; I think the police overacted and I think this guy was an idiot.

[CQB Elite]

After listened to the whole set of recordings; my take on this is…

The fellow was an idiot for initially arguing with the police – arguing with a LEO is really never a good idea; arguing with a LEO when he’s drawing down on you and giving you orders is truly idiotic. There is a place for arguments about what the police did and didn’t do and should or shouldn’t have done but the street when it’s going down is NOT that place.

The whole “I always carry a tape recorded with me” bit seems really questionable to me…I can’t help but think that this guy was out looking to make an issue.

I think the police did overact.

So; to sum up; I think the police overacted and I think this guy was an idiot.

I worked with an officer that was shot in the neck during a traffic stop. The bad guy sped away. The officer made it back to his patrol car and died sitting in the driver seat. He had a young police explorer riding with him. Guess we could comfort the officer's little boy by telling him "glad your Daddy didn't over react".....

[mikegideon]

I worked with an officer that was **** in the neck during a traffic stop. The bad guy sped away. The officer made it back to his patrol car and died sitting in the driver seat. He had a young police explorer riding with him. Guess we could comfort the officer's little boy by telling him "glad your Daddy didn't over react".....

+1

[Guest Red5]

I worked with an officer that was **** in the neck during a traffic stop.

Is "shot" a four letter word on this forum?

[CQB Elite]

Is "shot" a four letter word on this forum?

My apologies- I may have typed a wrong letter in there. That's what I get for thinking one thing while typing another :-)

[ProjectDexter]

I worked with an officer that was shot in the neck during a traffic stop. The bad guy sped away. The officer made it back to his patrol car and died sitting in the driver seat. He had a young police explorer riding with him. Guess we could comfort the officer's little boy by telling him "glad your Daddy didn't over react".....

So do you believe all carry permit holders should be treated guilty until proven otherwise?

[CQB Elite]

So do you believe all carry permit holders should be treated guilty until proven otherwise?

What I'm saying is we don't know the entire story. I bet that in Philly you don't see very many people walking around with a gun in plain view. The officer saw something unusual and decided to investigate. Then, when the guy was acting like a DA, the officers suspicion grew further.

I'll tell you one thing- for a long time I put on a uniform, gunbelt & badge and went to work. With the way that guy was acting and carry a gun I would have pointed my weapon at him too....

[RobertNashville]

I worked with an officer that was shot in the neck during a traffic stop. The bad guy sped away. The officer made it back to his patrol car and died sitting in the driver seat. He had a young police explorer riding with him. Guess we could comfort the officer's little boy by telling him "glad your Daddy didn't over react".....

It seems you might be assuming that because I said the police overacted that they were "wrong". If that was your assumption then let me clarify, I was not trying to make any sort of determination about "rightness" on their part...perhaps I need to find a better word than "overact".

What I'm trying to say is that without more information, I don't know that ascribing "right" or "wrong" to their actions is appropriate.

[mikegideon]

It seems you might be assuming that because I said the police overacted that they were "wrong". If that was your assumption then let me clarify, I was not trying to make any sort of determination about "rightness" on their part...perhaps I need to find a better word than "overact".

What I'm trying to say is that without more information, I don't know that ascribing "right" or "wrong" to their actions is appropriate.

I'm sure Kwik would have received about the same treatment with his six shooter if they hadn't known who he was. Granted, the language may have been different, but that's just guys from Philly. He made it a lot worse on himself with his Kwik-like demeanor. They ran him over the coals because he was a total dick after they made contact.

If I was a cop in that city, we would have received about the same from me. Rough town.

[Guest TackleberryTom]

I just spent last week in Philadelphia for work. I was down in the Darby area. Quite a rough place. I actually did see a few people open carrying. I was a little surprised myself. I was carrying concealed but due to the higher than normal potential to need to use a firearm in that area, I can totally understand OC around there. I saw a guy OC in Walmart and another guy right behind him OC, who was apparently A LEO (dressed in semi-tactical unmarked clothing with a badge on his belt) and nobody seemed to have any problem with it. But, it all comes down to attitude I guess. I did OC while going up to my hotel room though, just didn't see a need to stuff it away just to walk up.

I do think there is more to the story though, this guy was seems to have been out "fishing" for trouble. It is a rough town.

[ProjectDexter]

What I'm saying is we don't know the entire story. I bet that in Philly you don't see very many people walking around with a gun in plain view. The officer saw something unusual and decided to investigate. Then, when the guy was acting like a DA, the officers suspicion grew further.

I'll tell you one thing- for a long time I put on a uniform, gunbelt & badge and went to work. With the way that guy was acting and carry a gun I would have pointed my weapon at him too....

I understand, and I agree the story seems one-sided, the guy sounded like he was going to be a handful from the beginning. I don't have any type of LE background like many of you do on this forum, other than some family and friends of mine that are in LE and I've dealt with plenty as a civilian.

My take on this is coming strictly from a civilian standpoint, and is based on the information as I have read. To me, the correct way of handling the situation as the officer would have started by addressing the guy as "sir" and if he feels threatened by the individual, having his hand on his firearm HOLSTERED instead of already muzzling the guy. Knowing the laws, he could have instructed him to keep his hands in the open while he disarmed or checked for the proper identification. If I were in the situation I would have been ok and felt comfortable with that, if I turned to the words "Hey Junior" to see someone with a firearm trained at me I would be upset and in instant defense mode as well.

I think the civi and the LEO were both wrong. Unless the guy is a total idiot, and intent on just causing problems for the PD, I'm sure he will not act the same way again. And I'm pretty sure the officer will not act the same way again either when faced with a similar situation. You can't say "better safe than sorry" and draw on innocent, law abiding citizens, that's not how it works...

[Guest Zombie-Hunter]

Knee Jerk Reaction followed by “My Bad†LOL

What a Joke, Barney Fife.......

[DaveTN]

So do you believe all carry permit holders should be treated guilty until proven otherwise?

As a former Police Officer I can assure you everyone is guilty until proven otherwise. If you were innocent until proven guilty they couldn’t handcuff you and take you to jail.

If someone pulls a gun on you will you wait to see if it’s real or not? No, that would be ignorant. A cop assuming that everyone carrying a gun is a law abiding citizen with an HCP would be just as ignorant.

A cop has every right to stop you and to ask to see your permit; you agreed to that when you bought the privilege of carrying a gun. It’s a crime for the average citizen to carry a gun in Tennessee. Until that changes it will be rare to see someone carrying a gun. It’s out of the norm and that coupled with your appearance will either cause the cops to stop you or let you walk on by.

[CQB Elite]

As a former Police Officer I can assure you everyone is guilty until proven otherwise. If you were innocent until proven guilty they couldnt handcuff you and take you to jail.

If someone pulls a gun on you will you wait to see if its real or not? No, that would be ignorant. A cop assuming that everyone carrying a gun is a law abiding citizen with an HCP would be just as ignorant.

A cop has every right to stop you and to ask to see your permit; you agreed to that when you bought the privilege of carrying a gun. Its a crime for the average citizen to carry a gun in Tennessee. Until that changes it will be rare to see someone carrying a gun. Its out of the norm and that coupled with your appearance will either cause the cops to stop you or let you walk on by.

Well said my Brother!

[Guest Zombie-Hunter]

If someone pulls a gun on you will you wait to see if it’s real or not? No, that would be ignorant. A cop assuming that everyone carrying a gun is a law abiding citizen with an HCP would be just as ignorant.

I didn't see anywhere in this story where this citzen pulled a gun, Must of missed it "my Badd"

In my opinion common sense dictates that a person open carrying has the permission too.

But that’s just me, Make me smarter?

As a former Police Officer I can assure you everyone is guilty until proven otherwise.

A cop has every right to stop you and to ask to see your permit; you agreed to that when you bought the privilege of carrying a gun.

Why am I uncomfortable with these statements?

Do all the protectors of citizens constitutional rights have this warped view? WOW!!

I'll not get into a pissing match over this "It is what, It is"

Have a good day.....

Edited April 6, 2011 by Zombie-Hunter

[mikegideon]

I don't think the guy's "rights" were violated. I'm pretty sure the cops weren't just riding around looking to start some . Can't say the same about Kwik Jr.