RM Ammo, CCI Blazer, or Wolf Polyformance?

[BigK]

I'm looking for some CHEAP target/IDPA ammo to shoot in my Glock 34. I'd rather be reloading my own, but to be honest, I'm a little overwhelmed by all the choices and components I'd need, that I've been putting off getting started. I shoot too much for a single-stage press and cannot afford a Dillon. I'm sure there's a solution for my needs somewhere in the middle, but until I figure it out, I need to buy ammo.

For the price and volume I shoot, I'm looking at RM Ammo, CCI Blazer and/or Wolf Polyformance. I've had bad luck with CCI Blazer in my CZ P-01, but I haven't heard much bad about it in Glocks. I've never heard of the other 2, but for under $10 for a box of 50 I'm definitely curious. I'm hoping someone has some advice that might sway my decision.

What do you guys think?

[Westwindmike]

I've shot over 1000 rounds of CCI in my Glock 19 in two days. Ran good, no malfunctions.

[gunsablazin]

I can't give you an opinion on factory ammo for plinking because I've been loading my own practice ammo for nearly 30 years. If you are a high volume shooter the money you'll "save" by reloading is tremendous. With my home cast bullets a box of .45ACP = $3.25, it's worth giving a look. If you can afford to shoot piles of factory ammo a Dillon press will give you your money back pretty soon. I have two Dillon 550s and an RCBS single station press and can make practice ammo that is just as good as "store bought".

[BigK]

I've shot over 1000 rounds of CCI in my Glock 19 in two days. Ran good, no malfunctions.

Just to clarify...we are both talking about CCI Blazer with aluminum cases, right? If so, this would be good news. As long as others are shooting CCI in their Glocks and not having FTF's or FTE's, I can make do until I get into reloading.

[BigK]

I can't give you an opinion on factory ammo for plinking because I've been loading my own practice ammo for nearly 30 years. If you are a high volume shooter the money you'll "save" by reloading is tremendous. With my home cast bullets a box of .45ACP = $3.25, it's worth giving a look. If you can afford to shoot piles of factory ammo a Dillon press will give you your money back pretty soon. I have two Dillon 550s and an RCBS single station press and can make practice ammo that is just as good as "store bought".

The savings is the main reason why I want to start reloading. I've heard a lot of good things about the amount of money I can save.

Being able to customize loads for faster follow-up is another reason. Gregg at MCTS was telling me recently at an IDPA match they were hosting that it makes a noticable difference.

[Westwindmike]

Just to clarify...we are both talking about CCI Blazer with aluminum cases, right? If so, this would be good news. As long as others are shooting CCI in their Glocks and not having FTF's or FTE's, I can make do until I get into reloading.

Yes, this is the aluminum case Blazer. Works great in my Glock.

[BigK]

Awesome, thanks. If I buy 1000 rounds, I can get it delivered for $9.60 per box of 50. That's not bad, since WWB is almost $24 per box of 100 with tax at Walmart.

[gunsablazin]

The savings is the main reason why I want to start reloading. I've heard a lot of good things about the amount of money I can save.

Being able to customize loads for faster follow-up is another reason. Gregg at MCTS was telling me recently at an IDPA match they were hosting that it makes a noticable difference.

You should shoot my .40S&W loads in my Glock 35, they are specifically for IDPA. The thing kicks like a Ruger MKII and still easily makes power factor. Reloading is the way to go for many good reasons. The powder puff loads I make for J- Smiths make practicing with them pleasant, the ladies especially love them.

[BigK]

I've saved up enough to get started reloading. Now I've just gotta sit down with someone knowledgeable and get some specific recommendations on equipment.

[gunsablazin]

Start with a single station press, you'll always need one anyway and it will teach you how to adjust dies and learn what each step does. Soon you will want a progressive press, get a Dillon, their warranty is unsurpassed, I have a 550 that is 25 years old and they support like it was new. If your ever in Cleveland I'll be happy to show you my set up and help get you started. It is not hard to do with just a little schooling.

[Jonnin]

If you are looking at reloading, let me suggest buying the cheapest BRASS cased ammo that is BOXER primed, to save up for later. Its a little bit more per box but you can save the cases, which take a lot of hunting and cleaning if you pick up off a range or a bit of money if you buy cases. Not that 9mm cases are hard to come by but if you save $3 per box then turn around in a month and spend $100 on brass cases, you havent saved anything.

A 4 stage turret press is in between a dillion and a single stage. It does all the steps for you. I have one and attached an automatic powder measure as well (all Lee brand but the brand does not matter much, avoid aluminum lee press but the steel ones are good). Once set up, a box of ammo takes me less than 15 min to make, and costs $3 or so (with hardened lead bullets). They work like this: clean all your cases in a tumbler. I use a grease lube so I keep that on my hand, pick up a case with that hand (roll it in my fingers), put it on the press, pull handle (case is sized and deprimed). Push handle (case is primed). Pull handle (case is powdered). Grab a bullet and set it in the case, pull handle (bullet is pushed in, round is lightly crimped). At this point its either done (I stop here) or you can crimp again with a quality crimp die if you like. By now I have a case in hand being lubed again, click in a fresh primer and repeat...

All you have to choose is primer, powder, and bullets. I use http://www.missouribullet.com for bullets, whatever primers I can get in bulk on sale, and I was using accurate #2 powder but am probably swapping to #5 soon. Its not that many choices, and to be honest for this type of shooting any bullet, 9mm appropriate powder, and primer will be about as good as another. Defensive shooting is short range, not high accuracy.

I have about $500 invested in the reloading hardware, and have already made it back (in under a year) -- the 500 rounds of 380 alone saved me a ton.

Note that for a glock I would start at 1/2 way between the starter load and max load for your selected components. Been there and done that, glocks were made to shoot +p ammo and the lowball starter loads will work in any other gun but will jam a glock due to lack of power to cycle the action. If you do start low, do not make many rounds until you try them...

[BigK]

Would THIS reloading kit with both upgrades and THIS tumbler kit be a good enough place to start?

Then I need a bullet puller, a reloading manual, and I'd like to get an extra turret and set of dies for a second caliber, right?

Do I need case lube? How about reloading trays? Are they only needed for single-stage?

Am I overlooking anything besides supplies (primers, projectiles, and powder)?

[Jonnin]

The reloading kit looks ok. Its probably overkill with stuff you dont have to have, but its fine.

Get a refinished turret from LEE directly for cheaper, actually always check their refinished goods (used but checked out and repaired if damaged).

The tumbler looks good as well.

You do not have to have a bullet puller. Its nice, but it can wait. I average a couple of fubar cartridges a month, total is still under 20 goof ups, not even $1 worth of wasted bullets and so forth, and I have stopped messing them up for dumb stuff that happened as I was learning.

You do not need to buy a reloading manual either. The web has all the reloading data you need, and if you buy lee dies, they have load data as well. You can get it if you want, but you are paying for free information.

You need a set of dies for each caliber. I would get just one to start, learn the process, then proceed to buy more later. Its your choice.

You do not need a reloading tray. Case lube is required for necked and larger cases, or non-carbide dies. Carbide dies for small calibers does not need lube. 9mm, 380, etc can go unlubed.

You need a high precision scale to weigh your powder, bullets, etc to double check things. Do not trust the lee disk measure to drop the powder you want, their chart vs powder dumped is off. The tool is consistent, but weigh the charges yourself to get the correct disk setting for your load! You want calipers, to check the length of your cartridge. You need a sturdy table to mount this stuff on and a set of shelves or something to organize it all. You need a strong magnet to pull steel cases out of your pick-me-ups if you scavenge brass from public areas. You want a notebook to write down everything you do, and labels for the batches you make.

----------------------------

If you buy it one piece at a time instead of the press kit, get the same 4 turret press, the lee auto disk powder device, the primer tool (be sure its the right one, there is a handheld one that is called auto-prime, thats NOT it, read product description carefully), the rifle charge die (this is for all rifle cartridges), spare turret or 3 (here is the deal, if you have turrets, you can keep your dies set up, if you only have one, you have to reseat the dies each time you change caliber, and that is a 10 min process of getting them screwed to exactly the right depth in the turret -- but you can function with just one if you do not swap calibers often). You might get the doubledisk powder measure adapter (if you do not, you have to hit the rifle cartridges with powder twice, the largest hole for the disks with only one disk is just barely able to work for a 223 with some powders... I just hit it twice, but the riser lets you stack 2 disks to only hit it once). Finally, I do not like the primer tool that hangs off the press, and I took it off and just pick it up, click it, and put it back down each time. Maybe a little slower but its in my way when it is mounted to the press.

Thats my take on it. Your plan is fine, my comments are designed to cut out the stuff you don't need to save money and confusion, but your original plan is more than acceptable.

Here is a link to lees refinished stuff (and consider order from them directly, or at least compare prices) : Lee Precision: Closeouts (note the $9 turrets..!)

[Jonnin]

example free reloading manual (this one is for accurate brand powders) :

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf

[BigK]

Thanks Jonnin for the valuable advice. I went to Outpost Armory today and bought almost everything I need to get started. I could have saved a little by ordering from MidwayUSA, but I was anxious to get started. Here's what I got:

Lee Deluxe Reloading Kit

Lee 9mm dies (set of 3)

Lee 9mm crimping die

Lee hand primer tool

Ranier fmj 124 gr RN (500)

Alliant Bullseye (1 lb)

Also, I ordered a tumbler and a primer feeder.

I just realized I didn't get the Lee Classic Turret Press. I got the cheapo with the aluminum handle. Should I take it back or will this do?

Edited April 4, 2011 by BigK

[TN-popo]

I've shot over 1000 rounds of CCI in my Glock 19 in two days. Ran good, no malfunctions.

+1

I've also done this with Brown Bear.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I've saved up enough to get started reloading. Now I've just gotta sit down with someone knowledgeable and get some specific recommendations on equipment.

I have helped a few people out on here. Maybe they will chime in, if not feel free to PM with any questions you have.

BTW, I shoot A LOT and I use a single stage to load my 45 ACP ammo. I do have a progressive but rarely use it. I prefer using a single stage because there is less chance of a double charge or a squib load making it through the process. I have also loaded a metric ton of 9mm as well for a Glock using a single stage.

These are what I would consider a bare minimum to load 9mm. You would also need a dial caliper to measure OAL with. You can probably pick one up locally that is cheaper than ordering one. I have a harbor freight one that is still going strong after 3 years.

118739 Lyman Electronic Scale Powder Funnel Pan

$6.09

540522 Lee Perfect Powder Measure Sale!

$20.99

566058 Lee Auto Prime Hand Priming Tool Shellholder Package of 11

$12.99

140349 Lee Carbide 3-Die Set 9mm Luger

$25.99

713372 Frankford Arsenal Micro Reloading Electronic Powder Scale 750 Grain Capacity

$36.99

Or some sort of electronic scale

413473 Lee Auto Prime XR Hand Priming Tool

$16.49

814175 Lee Classic 4 Hole Turret Press

$94.99

OR

317831 Lee Classic Cast Single Stage Press

$89.99

Everyone has their preference for brands. I generally don't and will use whatever works regardless of how cheap it is. I have Lee, Redding and RCBS dies and all load equally well.

Electronic scales save time. A magnetic scale will work fine but is way slower. When setting up pistol loads a balance beam would work because you are only using it to get the powder throw set. Personally I could weigh 10 charges on an electronic in the time is takes a balance beam to settle on one.

If you buy the single stage I would also buy the Hornady Lock-N-Load die converion kit. It makes changing dies easier and you can keep your settings. If not then you are going to spend 10 minutes setting up each die when you change them.

317831 Hornady Lock-N-Load Press and Die Conversion Bushing Kit

$14.99

Also, there is no need for a tumbler yet unless you want pretty brass. Take some hot water and add Lemishine, about a tablespoon per quart of hot water or about the same of lemon juice. Put the brass in a container then add enough of the hot water solution to cover the brass. Let it sit for 24 hours, shaking it every tiem you walk by, then rinse a few times in plain water, hot or cold. Some of your brass will come out pink but it will go away as you size them. Allow the brass to dry for 24 hours and you will have very clean brass. It still may have some soot makes but it will not cause any issues. Do this before you run anything through your dies. Crud on the cases will scratch and may ruin your dies. You might also get a burr in the dies and deeply scratch your brass.

There is no need to trim 9mm brass so forget about buying anything related to that.

Because it is a Glock you may need the die to remove the Glock bulge from the cases. I never did with my 9mm Glock but if you load them hot you will get some Glock smilies on your cases.

And finally, if you are shooting reloads through a Glock make sure to use plated or jacketed bullets. The poly rifling can cause pressure issues when shooting lead.

Dolomite

[Jonnin]

Thanks Jonnin for the valuable advice. I went to Outpost Armory today and bought almost everything I need to get started. I could have saved a little by ordering from MidwayUSA, but I was anxious to get started. Here's what I got:

Lee Deluxe Reloading Kit

Lee 9mm dies (set of 3)

Lee 9mm crimping die

Lee hand primer tool

Ranier fmj 124 gr RN (500)

Alliant Bullseye (1 lb)

Also, I ordered a tumbler and a primer feeder.

I just realized I didn't get the Lee Classic Turret Press. I got the cheapo with the aluminum handle. Should I take it back or will this do?

The press is fine. You can get a more expensive one if you want, I shy away from telling people on how to spend their money. The one you got will work and is backed by their warrenty. Aluminum stuff has a bad rep but I do not know of anyone who has worn one out or broken one from normal usage.

Lol I tried to steer your away from the hand primer tool. Now you have to pull the case off the press, prime it, and put it back on -- this is very slow. If it comes to that, take a set of tweezers and hand place a primer in the press is faster than taking the brass off every time. I got the press attacked one, but didnt attach it, I just hold it up to the press, click it, and set it back down, as I am rolling a new piece of brass in the lube with the other hand. I guess I didnt make the options clear enough, but whatever you want to do. Primers are just awkward, no matter what you do, with this type of setup, so go with what you like.

Its likely that the extra money to buy local mostly offsets shipping fees for heavy gear like reloading stuff. Most of the time its a wash to buy local higher or buy on the web & pay shipping... you probably didnt lose all that much.

You may not need the factory crimp die; the seating die does a light crimp (lee dies do, anyway, brand matters as some seat dies do not) and its good enough for normal use. Also up to you, but I have so far ignored the crimp dies (I also bought them, just to have it if I ever decide I want to use it).

All in all it sounds like you have enough to get started. Just be sure to check your powder charges on the scale and overall length of the cartridge (too short can blow up, too long will not feed). Make 5 or so test rounds, try them in your gun(s) and if they work, go for it!

[Jonnin]

By the way, make sure you ordered a bracket for your mail order primer tool:

This will not fit a Classic Turret Press unless another bracket is used to mount it, the bracket is available from Lee Precision, their TP2699.

If you want to attach it. That is the one I am using by holding it up, click, set down approach.

[BigK]

I let the guy at the shop talk me into the hand primer, but realize it was a mistake. I can return it next time I'm out that way and get my $20 back. I ordered the safety prime system you mentioned and the obligatory powder riser at the same time I ordered the tumbler kit. So, I should be all set there.

Since my press is the 4-hole with auto index (> 2006) instead of the Lee Classic (<2006), I think the primer system will fit without the mount. At least that's the impression I got from some Lee videos of the primer system in action. At least I hope that's right.

I got a set of calipers last time I was at Harbor Freight. They aren't the best, but they've been working good so far when I use them to measure leather for holsters and stuff. They should do fine for checking OAL until I can get a better set.

If I got the gist of the powder disks, I should be weighing the first several after I get it dialed in to make sure it throws the # grains I need. I hear you should also weigh every 10th or so load to be sure it's right, but I hear it's consistent once you get it set to the proper disk setting.

Any way, thanks for all your help...everyone...I can't wait til my primer feeder comes in, so I can get started. I'm trying to "find" a Bullseye load for Ranier 124 gr from a Glock 34 that is near the minimum power factor for IDPA. It'll actually be fun experimenting with that. I can rent a chrony pretty cheap at the range.

[BigK]

I have helped a few people out on here. Maybe they will chime in, if not feel free to PM with any questions you have...

I'll probably take you up on that, thanks!

I just got a turret press, tumbler, and all I think I need to get started. I definitely appreciate the recommendations on scales and all. I will probably want a better one than the magnetic one my kit came with sooner than later. I also appreciate the heads-up about the Glock case bulges and the brass cleaning idea.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Keep the hand primer. They work just as good as any press mounted primer. You can feel what is going on as you prime cases. Another HUGE advantage is you are not stuck in your room you reload in. You can take your cases and sit and watch TV while you prime them. May not seem like that big of a deal until you have to prime 500 cases. I also find the hand primer a bit quicker than press mounted ones.

And make sure you run at least one hopper full of powder bfore you reload. Work the powder thrower and just put it back in the can it came in. The reason is a new powder throw will have static and the powder sticks to it until the thrower gets covered in graphite from the powder. If you don;t then the charges will get progressively bigger and bigger. The reason why powder is gray is it is covered in graphite to make it meter better.

And if you need to order any more Lee stuff use these people:

Lee Precision Factory Sales Catalog Index

They are generally at least 1/3 less than anywhere else. I have ordered from them on dozens of occassions without issue.

As far as jacketed bullets go these people seem to be recommended the most.

Precision Delta - Competition Ammunition

There prices INCLUDE shipping.

Dolomite

[Jonnin]

The powder disks are not that complicated. Its a round disk with drilled holes in it, you get 5 or 6 disks each with 6 or 8 or something holes. You pick a hole, put the thing together (easy, just 2 screws with hand tighten nuts on them) then take an empty (but primed, or not yet deprimed!) case & hit it with powder, dump it in, hit it, dump it back in, about 5 times (as was said above, you want to "prime" the powder stuff to get past the unstable initial loads). Then weigh the charge a few times to see how much powder your selected disk hole is giving. Move up or down until it actually matches your load data. You have to take it apart to change disk settings, its a bit messy as this will leak some powder each time, hold it over a bucket or something.

[BigK]

Keep the hand primer. They work just as good as any press mounted primer. You can feel what is going on as you prime cases. Another HUGE advantage is you are not stuck in your room you reload in. You can take your cases and sit and watch TV while you prime them. May not seem like that big of a deal until you have to prime 500 cases. I also find the hand primer a bit quicker than press mounted ones.

And make sure you run at least one hopper full of powder bfore you reload. Work the powder thrower and just put it back in the can it came in. The reason is a new powder throw will have static and the powder sticks to it until the thrower gets covered in graphite from the powder. If you don;t then the charges will get progressively bigger and bigger. The reason why powder is gray is it is covered in graphite to make it meter better.

And if you need to order any more Lee stuff use these people:

Lee Precision Factory Sales Catalog Index

They are generally at least 1/3 less than anywhere else. I have ordered from them on dozens of occassions without issue.

As far as jacketed bullets go these people seem to be recommended the most.

Precision Delta - Competition Ammunition

There prices INCLUDE shipping.

Dolomite

Again, great advice, thanks. I may keep the hand primer after all. I'll run a hopper full of powder through to be safe, but let me ask you something. Doesn't that disk system cut the powder as it meters? Will this affect the loads I use twice cut powder in? I'd suspect it will make the powder burn faster.

I checked out the links you posted too. Wow! I wish I'd had those links this weekend. I could've saved a ton on equipment. I'm sure I'll need more, though.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Again, great advice, thanks. I may keep the hand primer after all. I'll run a hopper full of powder through to be safe, but let me ask you something. Doesn't that disk system cut the powder as it meters? Will this affect the loads I use twice cut powder in? I'd suspect it will make the powder burn faster.

I checked out the links you posted too. Wow! I wish I'd had those links this weekend. I could've saved a ton on equipment. I'm sure I'll need more, though.

There isn't enough cut powder to worry about, maybe a granule or two. I have used the Auto Disk a lot and found it to be very consistent with most powders. Actually I don't recall the Auto Disk cutting any powder when I used it. The Perfect Powder Measure does regualrly but I haven't had any problems. The Perfect Powder Mesure is a very accurate measure despite it's low cost.

When you get ready to tumble do this. Add a few handfuls of 6mm Airspoft BB's to the mixture. It helps scrub the cases.

Again, if you need help with anything feel free to ask.

Dolomite