Looking to add an AR15 & AK To The Arsenal! Noobie Help!

[xRUSTYx]

Hey Guys ...

Been spending time on AR15, but its such a damn cluster****. I can't get any straight information.

I'm looking for a good AR15 out of the box. I'd like to shoot it, clean it, learn the different parts, a mod lightly until I feel comfortable building one myself. However, opinions on AR15 are nuts ... I haven't even bothered posting because I would get about 15 diferent answers ...

So, with that said, been looking at the following:

Bushmaster

Colt

Spikes

Can anyone recommend a good out of the box AR15 that seems to be reputable? Price really isn't an factor, but I would rather not pay a premium for something I will never compete with Mostly a weekend shooter, and something to keep on hand if SHTF

I'd also like to pick up an AK...any suggestions there as well would certainly be appreciated!

Help this long gun noobie out!

THANKS!

-Rusty

[Garufa]

I am by no means an expert but I hear good things about the Smith & Wesson M&P15 line.

[xRUSTYx]

I am by no means an expert but I hear good things about the Smith & Wesson line.

Forgot to add, I was also thinking about S&W !!!! Thanks Garufa!

[gotigers]

I think AR15.com is the best source for AR15 info. In each seperate forum there are stickies of tutorials, how to's, etc.

you get 15 different answers, because there ARE 15 different answers.

Colt is fine, but you spend more for the name.

Bushmaster is ok, but they use some non milspec parts.

S&W (which i have one), Spikes, Daniel Defense and Bravo are great and will range between $900 to $1300.

Noveske, LMT, Mega are the "money is no object" ARs.

If i were buying right now and had the cash, i would get a Daniel Defense V5. It is a midlength gas system, quad rail, light weight, etc. Great rifle. https://danieldefense.com/rifles/mid-length/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v5.html

[johnnychimpo]

Try M4carbine.net. There's no BS tolerated there. You'll be able to search for the answers your looking for. Be sure to search before you ask. There's a lot of industry professionals and guys with actual trigger time on there.

[Caster]

I built all mine, but if I were to buy one out of the box, I'd go with a Bravo or Daniel with the M&P a close third. I understand your frustration too. There's entirely too much BS involved and even more when you figure in the AK. I'd rather slam my nose in a car door as keep up with that debate. Since you did ask for recommendations and such, I'll tell you that I was an AK fanatic for a long time. I'll never go back to an AK either. There's so many lies around an AR. They work. Absolutely.

Just remember a phrase i see here a lot. Cry now or cry later. Just cough up a few extra bills now and later, you'll never regret it.

You a few things to consider too. Barrel twist. This subject is difficult to digest at first. Errrr was for me. If you never plan on reloading, or only plan to reload bulk, stick with a 1/9 that'll let you shoot 55g and 62g very well. Those are the two most common weights. I have a 1/9 that shoots 55g extremely well.

If you're like me and want to squeeze a little more out of the platform, you might go 1/7 for heavy bullets. My go to rifle is a 1/7 and it eats 75g HPBT, 75g Amax or 70g Barnes. It's like a wholly different cartridge. The complaints about the 223's effectiveness all but disappear when go this route. The problem is, you gotta pay to play and my wallet gets mighty sore from it.

Being a noobie as you say, i'd tell you to keep it simple. Some things to insist on would be chrome bore/chamber and a flat top upper. You can put sights on a flat top easy, but optic options for a fixed carry handle are limited.

Have fun and be sure to post pics when you come home with one.

[gotigers]

Caster made some good points on twist. I would go with 1:7. It can shoot 55gr for plinking and home defense just fine, bonus it can shoot heavy bullets at distance thru wind better than the 1:9 twist.

Daniel Defense barrels are cold hammer forged, some of the best barrels made. Maybe not as accurate as Noveske, but Noveske barrels are $450+ vs DD barrels are < $300. I would still give durability to DD.

And M4carbine is another good resource.

[Smith]

I've been really impressed with the S&W M&P's that have come through the store. They really seem to stand out compared to the others I've seen.

[JeffsSig]

For your first one get a Rock River. They are the most overlooked quality AR your money can buy.

[East_TN_Patriot]

I would second just building one. There's no better way to understand how the rifle works than to build it yourself. You can build a lower with very little effort or special tools. Just buy a stripped lower, get a complete parts kit, and slap that puppy together. If you don't feel comfortable with building the upper, just buy one preassembled. It really isn't that difficult to build a lower and there's really no better way to learn the function of the rifle.

However, to the original question, I personally would just pick the best value for the money. Standard AR-15 rifles are pretty much the same out of the box and that will free up the cash to do any customization you decide to do after you've had the rifle a while. It would suck to buy a top-of-the-line rifle and decide to swap out parts when you could have gotten a standard version for several Benjamins less and used that cash to get what you want. I really like Rock River rifles. They tend to be well-built and perform well out of the box. Stag Arms also makes some decent rifles for the price. Finally, although they have a hit-or-miss reputation, Century Arms had some A2 rifles that used mil-spec Colt parts. I had one for a while and it worked flawlessly.

[midtennchip]

I'm on my fourth AR15 and I went with a M&P-15 the last time. I still have my original Bushmaster, but for the money, the M&P-15 is a better buy. However, I just helped my brother with his first AR purchase and he was willing to pay about $1200. We went with the Daniel Defense AR with their Omega rail (which has built-in sling attachment). You can get a DD for less than $1,100 if you really look around.

As to reviewing specs, there use to be a chart showing all the major brands on M4carbine.net, but it has been taken down. The remaining link is below. However, as I recall, the rating of the manufacturers based solely on compliance with Mil-Spec was something like the following (from best to worst):

Colt

Noveske

LMT

Daniel Defense

S&W

Bushmaster

CMMG

Rock River Arms

Olympic

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

There were a few others on the list, but manufacturers that make mostly lowers (like Spikes has been historically) were not on the last chart I saw, which was about 3 months ago. Based solely on that list, I became comfortable that S&W and Daniel Defense were the best "bang for buck." Evidently, some of the manufacturers have improved their compliance with mil-spec, so this may not be accurate any longer. But this is what I used to cut through all of the opinions.

[cch2a]

I love my M&P15T, highly recommend them.

[xRUSTYx]

thanks everyone Looks like I'm leaning towards the M&P15 ....

Although ... Buds has quite a few options.

Thinking this one because its Optic Ready: S&W M&P 15OR .223 Carbine 16" $799.00 SHIPS FREE

Someone mind looking at the list of M&P15's: Smith & Wesson Rifles

Outside of the 10 rounders, I'm having a hard time deciphering between them and why some are more expensive

[Guest rebeldrummer]

Mine is a build, and a good one at that IMHO?

YH upper. DD lower. Flat top carbine, flip up sights.

Shoots like a champ...reliable.

I suggest a build. Do it your way and you will be happy.

[dlm37015]

unless it a match gun i like j&t they build great uppers use shaw barrels you can buy an m4 kit for a little under 500.00 and get a lower for about 100.00.it will shoot great i havent had one that didnt.when you get a lower take it to a gunshow in nashville or knoxville see gary at the j&t booth he will put the trigger in for you if you buy it from them then you have a great ar for 600.00.if you want a match gun they cost more and are a little harder to build but can be doneremember there anly abour 6 companys that make lowers so no mater whos name is on it somebody else more than likley made it

[Guest nicemac]

Hey Guys ...

Been spending time on AR15, but its such a damn cluster****. I can't get any straight information.

I'm looking for a good AR15 out of the box. I'd like to shoot it, clean it, learn the different parts, a mod lightly until I feel comfortable building one myself. However, opinions on AR15 are nuts ... I haven't even bothered posting because I would get about 15 diferent answers ...

So, with that said, been looking at the following:

Bushmaster

Colt

Spikes

Can anyone recommend a good out of the box AR15 that seems to be reputable? Price really isn't an factor, but I would rather not pay a premium for something I will never compete with Mostly a weekend shooter, and something to keep on hand if SHTF

I'd also like to pick up an AK...any suggestions there as well would certainly be appreciated!

Help this long gun noobie out!

THANKS!

-Rusty

As close to new as you can get:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/firearms-classifieds/55435-sabre-defence-m4-flat-top-xr15-5-56mm.html

I have this one, an M&P and a Stag. The build quality out of the box between this one and the M&P seems about the same.

[CQB Elite]

I'm building an AR only because I found an awesome deal on a Noveske upper/lower matched set. I'm using a Daniel Defense lower parts kit and will probably use their barrel and handguard. If I had the cash I'd buy as many Daniel Defense rifles as I could. Ofcourse, don't let my wife read this post!

[jcj]

I'll throw in a +1 for Spike's. I bought a ST-15 "LE" middy from them a couple of months ago. No complaints whatsoever. Use the coupon code ARFCOM if you order online or mention ar15.com on the phone and they'll give you 5% off. Not much, but its worth mentioning.

I also got a commemorative 9/11 dust cover from them. Adds a bit of personal touch to an "off the shelf" rifle. They have several to choose from.

[Guest adamoxtwo]

I was looking on building one and this kit Rifle Kit, Carbine, Modular, 16 [AR-RK16Mod] - $535.00 :: AK Parts kits - Superb Products is what I was planning on using. Mainly because the Upper comes complete and you have the option to have the barrel and chamber chrome lined. I think it totaled out at roughly

Now I am by no means an expert on these kits. If anyone knows about these Kits please let me know how they are.

Good Luck with your choice

[Guest Maelphaedor]

Everyone has a different opinion, so here's mine:

Once you climb out of the bottom of the barrel no name guns, they all pretty much shoot the same till you get to the top end match grade stuff.

The biggest difference to my mind between a $900 AR and a $1500 AR is how much your wallet hurts afterwards. The user affects the weapons performance as much, possibly more, than brand ever will once you're out of the bargain basement guns. So get a cheaper one and shoot the hell out of it.

Word of warning though, once you have one, you'll want another.

But that's ok, because the 2nd time around you'll have much clearer picture exactly the weapon you're hoping to build and exactly how you want it set up.

[Caster]

As close to new as you can get:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/firearms-classifieds/55435-sabre-defence-m4-flat-top-xr15-5-56mm.html

.

Doh! Yes, check out this one. The seller is a purty nice fellar too!

Seriously, This would do you right.

[Smith]

thanks everyone Looks like I'm leaning towards the M&P15 ....

Although ... Buds has quite a few options.

Thinking this one because its Optic Ready: S&W M&P 15OR .223 Carbine 16" $799.00 SHIPS FREE

Someone mind looking at the list of M&P15's: Smith & Wesson Rifles

Outside of the 10 rounders, I'm having a hard time deciphering between them and why some are more expensive

The M&P15OR is just a basic flat top AR. They are all "optics ready".

[Guest Maelphaedor]

Doh! Yes, check out this one. The seller is a purty nice fellar too!

Seriously, This would do you right.

If I had a spare grand laying around I'd consider getting this myself... damn you bills!!!

[Moped]

Well, no one is talking about AKs, so i will. I picked up a Saiga and then did a 922R Compliant Mod on it. They are great rifles and come out of the same factory in the Motherland as the Military AKs. So that is one option. The nice thing about doing a Saiga is you will know the rifle inside and out when you get done. Costs on these are going up, though.

Arsenal probably makes the best AK on the market today. If you don't want to build one, that's probably the way to go.

[xRUSTYx]

Thanks Moped

Leaning towards a DD at this point. Easily customizable, will allow me to learn the ropes while having an awesome AR

Gonna start researching Arsenal now!