Cracker Barrel - No Open Carry

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

This has to be, by far, the most stupid comment I've ever read on this forum.

That's the only "one thing" that open carry does? Seriously? If you believe that you have no clue. I'm gonna say that you're not that stupid, you would just rather have things the way they are as long as you can sit quietly in Cracker Barrel eating a Momma's pancake breakfast not caring about how we lose our rights because people just sit back being complacent.

So please educate me on why open carry is a good choice over concealed carry? I really want to know why anybody would want to open carry. Not trying to be a troll, just want to know whats the advantage of it and why you would open carry over carrying concealed? I've never heard of someone being ask to leave a place because they were carrying concealed. I cant say I've never heard someone being ask to leave or remove their gun when they are open carrying. And now I hear of a place that has changed their policy so you can not open carry there because of too many complaints on open carry..

[Fallguy]

So please educate me on why open carry is a good choice over concealed carry? I really want to know why anybody would want to open carry. Not trying to be a troll, just want to know whats the advantage of it and why you would open carry over carrying concealed? I've never heard of someone being ask to leave a place because they were carrying concealed. I cant say I've never heard someone being ask to leave or remove their gun when they are open carrying. And now I hear of a place that has changed their policy so you can not open carry there because of too many complaints on open carry..

For some at least, I don't think that it is OC is better than CC...just that is a choice. Sort of like wearing a Red shirt or a Green shirt. It's not that one is better than the other, just some people like Red and others like Green. There are advantages and disadvantages to each....so each person should be able to make their own decision based on their own prefrences and the situations they are in.

[Oh Shoot]

... just want to know whats the advantage of it and why you would open carry over carrying concealed? ....

Numero uno is comfort. Some of us don't have that extra inch or two available for IWB. Not talking about me, of course, ahem, but also want to carry something bigger than will fit in a pocket.

- OS

[Guest 270win]

Kirk,

I am probably not the only one who has honestly accidently been on school propertly without even knowing it, especially being in an unfamiliar place. There are many schools and colleges in large cities like Memphis and Nashville. Vanderbilt, for example, doesn't have clearly defined property with a fence. An honest man who is not from Nashville can mistakingly walk on Vanderbilt property without even knowing it while carrying a handgun. If that handgun is exposed, and a nervous college student calls the cops, then the honest man is paying big bills to a lawyer to get out of felony charges. Sadly, many police do not have common sense anymore and just say "Hey sir, this is the school property you might want to walk over there." You pay thousands of dollars for your mistake of unknowingly walking in an unfamiliar city with an exposed handgun on what you don't know is school property. Memphis has UT Med School, University of Memphis, Rhodes, Christian Brothers. After living here I have figured out pretty much where the colleges are. When I just moved here, hey I didn't know and was glad my gun was hidden a couple of times. You'd be surprised where some universities especially own just a parking lot and in TN this would pop you if you are carrying and walking across the parking lot! Crazy!

[JAB]

C'mon. They've got 600 stores and are in most of the states. I rather doubt they did a change in nation wide policy over 2 or 3 people.

- OS

First, there is such a thing as uniformity in company policy. I don't know if this is true but have read more than one comment claiming that Costco started posting because of something Kwik did - and that is only one person. I would think that something like handgun carry policy would have to be pretty well uniform at all stores.

Further, I didn't necessarily word the post to which you responded as well as I could have. What I intended was that more than one Cracker Barrel seems to have had one or two individuals who frequently ate there and OC'd while doing so about whom other customers complained. By that, I mean that I don't think there was a problem of thousands of different people OCing in Cracker Barrel - just a relatively small number who seem to have garnered a lot of negative attention.

So, yes, I will say it and people can spout that 'troll' BS if they want - OC in places like Cracker Barrel and similar, public places is, in my opinion, likely to do more harm than good to the ability to legally carry as I believe it is much more likely to bring about more restrictions than it is to 'educate' or 'desensitize' non-carriers. I have no problem with the general practice of OC but there are places where open carry is appropriate and places where it isn't. OC while pumping gas, walking across a parking lot at night, walking the sidewalks in town - I completely understand why someone would prefer OC in such situations (although such is generally not my choice) but I do not see it as being worth the risk of negative attention while sitting by the fireplace at Cracker Barrel. The fact of the matter is that, if it comes down to complaints by non-carriers, we who choose to carry are vastly outnumbered and such establishments can better afford to piss us off and lose our business than have it become a big issue with the public, at large.

Jeez, why can't OCers just throw on a damned shirt that covers their gun, eat their biscuits and gravy and not spur policy changes that may well eventually have negative results for everyone who chooses to carry? As I already said, I understand OCing as a deterrent to crime in certain circumstances. That said, last I checked Cracker Barrel wasn't exactly a big-time thug hangout. What the hell are folks trying to deter while sitting at Cracker Barrel? The grandma from the next table bludgeoning them with her walker so she can steal their last bite of country ham?

All joking aside, I realize that there is a possibility that bad things can happen anywhere and, more importantly, leaving a firearm in the vehicle when we go in and eat just opens up too much potential for the gun being stolen from the vehicle, etc. Just cover it up and you will have it if you need it while lessening the possibility of some, stupid sign hung on the front door preventing any of us from legally carrying there. I would much prefer the minor, extra step of brushing aside my cover garment before presenting my handgun to having nowhere left to go for entertainment or dining out after even places like Cracker Barrel post because a few people insisted on OCing.

Edited April 1, 2011 by JAB

[Guest kirkosaurus]

So please educate me on why open carry is a good choice over concealed carry? I really want to know why anybody would want to open carry. Not trying to be a troll, just want to know whats the advantage of it and why you would open carry over carrying concealed? I've never heard of someone being ask to leave a place because they were carrying concealed. I cant say I've never heard someone being ask to leave or remove their gun when they are open carrying. And now I hear of a place that has changed their policy so you can not open carry there because of too many complaints on open carry..

As Fallguy stated it's not which one is the better way to carry. There are times when CC is better.

The main reasons to OC are comfort (as OS stated), quicker access to your weapon, the deterrent factor (criminals are generally lazy, feed on the weak and don't want any resistance. A visible weapon WILL deter crime most of the time!), a way to educate the public by being a polite, upstanding gun carrier, and oh yeah, because I have the constitutional right to keep and BEAR arms!

[Guest kirkosaurus]

Kirk,

I am probably not the only one who has honestly accidently been on school propertly without even knowing it, especially being in an unfamiliar place. There are many schools and colleges in large cities like Memphis and Nashville. Vanderbilt, for example, doesn't have clearly defined property with a fence. An honest man who is not from Nashville can mistakingly walk on Vanderbilt property without even knowing it while carrying a handgun. If that handgun is exposed, and a nervous college student calls the cops, then the honest man is paying big bills to a lawyer to get out of felony charges. Sadly, many police do not have common sense anymore and just say "Hey sir, this is the school property you might want to walk over there." You pay thousands of dollars for your mistake of unknowingly walking in an unfamiliar city with an exposed handgun on what you don't know is school property. Memphis has UT Med School, University of Memphis, Rhodes, Christian Brothers. After living here I have figured out pretty much where the colleges are. When I just moved here, hey I didn't know and was glad my gun was hidden a couple of times. You'd be surprised where some universities especially own just a parking lot and in TN this would pop you if you are carrying and walking across the parking lot! Crazy!

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Part of the responsibility of being a gun carrier is educating yourself. Just more reasons why we need to stand together for all rights, including the right to carry in any public place like a school-ground. Not being divided by telling another gun owner who OC's that their compensating for the size of their manhood.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

but also want to carry something bigger than will fit in a pocket.

- OS

Another good point. Why carry a G26 in my IWB holster when I can OC and carry a G17.

[Oh Shoot]

Another good point. Why carry a G26 in my IWB holster when I can OC and carry a G17.

I'm 6'2" and 220 lbs, and I can't really carry a G26 or XD SC in my pocket.

- OS

[Guest kirkosaurus]

I'm 6'2" and 220 lbs, and I can't really carry a G26 or XD SC in my pocket.

- OS

I'm not much shorter and lighter and didn't like pocket carrying my G26 either.

[Guest 270win]

Kirk,

You are exactly right that the legislature needs to change the law so that those who have a handgun carry permit are not a criminal when carrying a firearm on school property. Something is wrong with that. There is even a bigger problem when someone in a few areas of town would need a map to know where a few college properties are if he is on foot and would risk felony charges for carrying a handgun at the present time. Some student organizations are 'on campus' and some are 'off campus' depending on the school. Some buildings/properties appear to not be even a part of a huge university to a passer by but in fact are. This is a big reason why the legislature must decriminalize weapons possession for those with permits/licenses. If other states don't have problems with this, like Alabama and California, then why would Tennessee? If someone is connected enough, he can become a 'special deputy' and carry on school property. The legislature should take care of the good people and focus on the bad criminals.

[RobertNashville]

I OC because it makes my dick look bigger.

What's it to ya?

Well...if you need the help in that department...go for it!

[Guest Overtaker]

The standard response of a pro-Second Amendment site to a corporate anti policy is to call, write, and email them your thoughts, e.g. "I am offended by your anti policy and although we have been satisfied customers for many years my family and I can no longer patronize your business while this policy is in effect; In addition to taking our business to your competitors I will also tell every single soul I know about your anti policy so that they will avoid supporting such a business. I look forward to the day I can once again dine in a Cracker Barrel."

On the flip side you can remain silent and continue to patronize Cracker Barrel (thus reinforcing their decision), deride open carry, and deliver another victory to the hands of the antis.

For those great patriots who answer liberty's call:

Write:

Cracker Barrel Old Country Store

PO Box 787

Lebanon, TN 37088-0787

Call:

(800) 333-9566

Fax:

(888) 263-4304

Online form

[BlackHawk93]

The standard response of a pro-Second Amendment site to a corporate anti policy is to call, write, and email them your thoughts, e.g. "I am offended by your anti policy and although we have been satisfied customers for many years my family and I can no longer patronize your business while this policy is in effect; In addition to taking our business to your competitors I will also tell every single soul I know about your anti policy so that they will avoid supporting such a business. I look forward to the day I can once again dine in a Cracker Barrel."

On the flip side you can remain silent and continue to patronize Cracker Barrel (thus reinforcing their decision), deride open carry, and deliver another victory to the hands of the antis.

For those great patriots who answer liberty's call:

Write:

Cracker Barrel Old Country Store

PO Box 787

Lebanon, TN 37088-0787

Call:

(800) 333-9566

Fax:

(888) 263-4304

Online form

I am in the process of drawing up a letter in PDF format where such language as stated above will be included and written in a professional and courteous way, generically, where someone can download it to their computer, fill in the blanks of the store, business, company, etc., and either email it or mail it after looking up the address for said company. I feel that if more of us start to let these companies know how many of us take this seriously, maybe, just maybe, they might look at it. Of course some feel that such a thing is a waste of time and saying anything will not change anyone's mind, but as a group, I feel there is power in numbers. If I can make it as easy as possible to do, and if everyone who cares will take part, I feel it MIGHT do some good.

Of course, if many of you feel that this is a waste of time and that doing anything about it will NOT make a difference, I won't bother. But I honestly feel that if as many of us as possible let these people know that we will take our money elsewhere then they might reconsider.

[RobertNashville]

I am in the process of drawing up a letter in PDF format where such language as stated above will be included and written in a professional and courteous way, generically, where someone can download it to their computer, fill in the blanks of the store, business, company, etc., and either email it or mail it after looking up the address for said company. I feel that if more of us start to let these companies know how many of us take this seriously, maybe, just maybe, they might look at it. Of course some feel that such a thing is a waste of time and saying anything will not change anyone's mind, but as a group, I feel there is power in numbers. If I can make it as easy as possible to do, and if everyone who cares will take part, I feel it MIGHT do some good.

Of course, if many of you feel that this is a waste of time and that doing anything about it will NOT make a difference, I won't bother. But I honestly feel that if as many of us as possible let these people know that we will take our money elsewhere then they might reconsider.

The most likely outcome of complaining about not allowing open carry is signage that forbids all carry - we should be writing to thank Cracker Barrel for not taking the easy way out and simply forbidding all carry.

Edited April 3, 2011 by RobertNashville

[BlackHawk93]

Im not referring to a letter complaining about Open Carry. I apologize for not making that clear. Im referring ONLY to a letter which states that we, as respected HCP holders, will take our business elsewhere when a company posts that guns are not allowed on the premises by HCP permit holders. Once again, I apologize. And youre right. I agree that Cracker Barrel could have posted and made it worse. Im not suggesting we send letters to CB. Just to those businesses with gun buster signs.

[RobertNashville]

Im not referring to a letter complaining about Open Carry. I apologize for not making that clear. Im referring ONLY to a letter which states that we, as respected HCP holders, will take our business elsewhere when a company posts that guns are not allowed on the premises by HCP permit holders. Once again, I apologize. And youre right. I agree that Cracker Barrel could have posted and made it worse. Im not suggesting we send letters to CB. Just to those businesses with gun buster signs.

Sorry for misunderstanding!

[Oh Shoot]

The most likely outcome of complaining about not allowing open carry is signage that forbids all carry.

We should be writing to thank Cracker Barrel for not taking the easy way out and simply forbidding all carry.

However reluctantly, due to the "not be infringed" part of me, I must agree.

Biz tells ya please conceal and ya raise enough hell, they forbid ya to carry at all. Want Cracker Barrel to emulate Costco, Regions Bank, Y-12 Credit Union, Hooters, etc etc etc?

HCP holders are maybe 3% of adult population of TN. Less than that actually carry. Those are not stats to sway CB's decision in an economic or any other way. This is not a suitable battleground for the greater good of 2A -- it's just tilting at a windmill, not a real enemy.

- OS

[RobertNashville]

The standard response of a pro-Second Amendment site to a corporate anti policy is to call, write, and email them your thoughts...

Yes...I WILL continue to patronize Cracker Barrel because I like their food AND because of their pro-Second Amendment stand in allowing patrons to carry their legally carried and concealed firearms.

[BlackHawk93]

Im not referring to a letter complaining about Open Carry.... Im not suggesting we send letters to CB. Just to those businesses with gun buster signs.

However reluctantly, due to the "not be infringed" part of me, I must agree.

Biz tells ya please conceal and ya raise enough hell, they forbid ya to carry at all. Want Cracker Barrel to emulate Costco, Regions Bank, Y-12 Credit Union, Hooters, etc etc etc?

HCP holders are maybe 3% of adult population of TN. Less than that actually carry. Those are not stats to sway CB's decision in an economic or any other way. This is not a suitable battleground for the greater good of 2A -- it's just tilting at a windmill, not a real enemy.

- OS

No harm Robert.

I tried to make my point more clear in my second post. I guess I won't bother creating said letter. I thought it was a good idea. I can always just do it myself though.

I appreciate your kindness Robert.

[Oh Shoot]

I tried to make my point more clear in my second post. I guess I won't bother creating said letter. I thought it was a good idea. I can always just do it myself though. ...

Just to clarify, I myself wasn't really responding to just your input, btw, but the general suggestions in the thread about putting the pressure on CB.

- OS

[Guest Overtaker]

The most likely outcome of complaining about not allowing open carry is signage that forbids all carry

I'm having trouble following this argument. If I tell them I will eat elsewhere because of their anti-OC policy, they will ban CC?

1. The issue of CC was never brought up
   
2. That is not going to bring me as a customer back.
   
3. They KNOW they are going to lose business if they post
   

The reason that they have banned OC is that the anti crowd has been louder than the Second Amendment crowd. If they received more pro-OC comments than anti-OC comments, the policy wouldn't be in effect. They surrendered to the anti crowd because they are an irate LOUD minority.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Overtaker

[Guest Silvertip46]

Seems to me that alot of people here object to gun buster signs and will rant and rave and spend time here saying how they will take their business elsewhere, print up cards to let businesses know they will not patronize their establishment, even ride around looking for signs and going in and asking about them, yet nobody wants to send a letter or email to a company stating the general consensus of most HCP holders?

Sems like Blackhawk had a good idea about creating a generic type form that could be easily filled out and sent in, and if done by enough people would definitely be easier than printing cards or going in places to tell them you wont be going in their place. Everybody wants to object to places that dont want our business yet shoots down a rational alternative to get our message across.

If half of the ones that come here and complain sent in comments or signed a petition like letter stating their intention of not patronizing a business, some of those businesses might just start to see what a mistake they are making.

[RobertNashville]

I'm having trouble following this argument...

For-profit businesses do not exist for us...they do not exist to provide jobs...they do not exist to provide a service...they do not exist to be "good community citizens". They have one reason and one reason alone to exist and that is to make a profit for their owners. Therefore, they tend to do what is in their best overall financial interests.

As was already pointed out in an earlier post, it is a relatively tiny percentage of Tennesseans who can legally carry a firearm (openly or concealed) and many of them don't carry even though they can which means that even if every carry permit holder in Tennessee were a customer of Cracker Barrel and then stopped frequenting Cracker Barrel (or any other business) as a block; the amount of "business" lost would be inconsequential. However, even a small percentage of customers who don't/can't carry ceasing to give their custom to Cracker Barrel would be a significant financial hit. So...we can complain all we want...write all the letters we want...boycott all we want...but at the end of the day, it just won't matter to these businesses...we simply don't represent enough $$$ to be that important.

In my humble opinion (the only one I'm truly an expert in); Cracker Barrel didn't "surrender" to anyone; by making the decision to allow us to continue carrying concealed while banning openly carrying is a VICTORY; not a defeat for firearm rights...it would likely have been easier for them if they had simply put up the ghost-buster no firearms signs and be done with it.

Now...I'm not saying that when a business bans all firearms the we shouldn't let that business know how we feel and/or stop using that business...all I'm suggesting is that we don't cut off our nose to spite our face.

[Guest Overtaker]

There are two assumptions supporting that argument that don't hold:

1. Cracker Barrel will ban CC if we say we are disappointed with the anti-OC policy. You said it yourself that they exist to make profit. There are two types of diners to consider: those that support carry, and those that don't. Banning CC will not achieve their objective of satisfying anti diners because those diners never know about CC anyway (that's why they only banned OC). Banning CC will obviously not bring back the pro-carry crowd. That's the reason that they didn't just put up a gunbuster. They want CC business! They have nothing to gain from banning CC. It's not going to help them win either group. It will only further drive away customers, which goes against the profit motive. The worst that can happen is that they discard your letter. Now if Cracker Barrel started receiving a ton of feedback from antis telling them to ban CC for the children then they might consider it. But they're not.
   
2. We can't make a difference.Yes, HCP holders are a small percentage of the TN and national population. But how many people do you really think complained to Cracker Barrel about this? Whatever number it is, it is undoubtedly smaller than the number of pro-carry messages they would receive from us. Our advantage is that we are organized on forums like TGO and other nationally-focused ones. Being organized means we will overwhelm the anti complaints.
   

You can take a few minutes to tell Cracker Barrel they're making the wrong decision, or you may remain silent. A wise man once said:

"I shall assume that your silence gives consent." -Plato