Saiga "AK" or CZ VZ-58???

[Magiccarpetrides]

Heres the dilemma I want an AK style weapon and was leaning on the saiga as it can be had for dirt ($249.00) and is completely assembled and built in Russia. It also has a chrome lined barrel. Currently there is a CZ group buy on at THR.com and I can get a VZ 58 at cost $775 with tactical stock. I understand the VZ 58 is not actually an AK but is based on the Stg 48(?) German gun. Larger ejection port, more accuate, lighter...but is it bullet proof reliable like an AK and I cannot find any info on if the barrel is chrome lined? Anyone have experience with either please chime in. The CZ group buy ends the 21st so im pressed for time if I want to go that route. Accuracy is nice but im not expecting anything that shoots a 7.62 x 39 to be a sniper rifle. Just really looking for something fun to shoot that wont jam or break easily. Thanks.

[Smith]

I have a Saiga that's been converted to an AK-103 and I love it. The concern I have with the CZ is parts. From what i understand this is a relatively new import and parts aren't widely available like the AK, nor are they interchangeable.

[molonlabetn]

I suspect that the CZ will become more and more popular over the next few years... all of the reviews seem positive. I'd say, get what you want.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Well I think the VZ 58 is much cooler looking, but the saiga is almost 1/3 of the price...so thats a huge factor...that and I ordered a Saiga 12 today (back-ordered). Update: Centefire has the VZ 58 for $649.95 with synthetic stock...so its looking better but still $$$

[Smith]

Where did you find a Saiga 12? What was the price, if i may ask? Was it under $500?

[Magiccarpetrides]

$399.95 from www.centerfiresystems.com 19" with synthetic stock. Extreme backorder probably looking at April they said. But incredibly cheap price.

[Auburn]

The Saiga is a geat rifle, however you will need to do the conversion job on it if you want to use hi-cap mags to avoid 922r issues. That adds a bit to the price, but it is still a great bargain. I really like mine.

[Guest sgphoto]

It's easy to make the Saiga accept regular AK mags.

Install a bullet guide, file down mag release to accept the AK mags.

Takes about 30 minutes to do.

There's much to be said about leaving the Saiga as is (with the exception of adding the bullet guide).

It appears more as a "Sporting Rifle" and would draw less attention than an EBR. You can still use the standard 10 rd magazine and if need be always slap in a 30 rd mag.

One of my stock Saigas in 16" barrel is only 1" longer than my SKS Chinese 16" Paratrooper.

While I would buy a VZ58 at a decent price for 450 or so, to me there's no comparison for value. The Saiga wins.

Steve

[Magiccarpetrides]

Thanks I believe I have a Saiga bought at the moment for $320 with the "sniper" stock. Eventually I want to get a .308 Saiga with 22" barrel for a poor mans Dragunov (sniper stock, bipod, scope mount, and my ACOG).

[Guest DonRickles]

The Vz59 is generally considered to be slightly more accurate and slightly less reliable. The big negative for me would be that the Vz does not take AK mags.

[Auburn]

It's easy to make the Saiga accept regular AK mags.

Install a bullet guide, file down mag release to accept the AK mags.

Takes about 30 minutes to do.

There's much to be said about leaving the Saiga as is (with the exception of adding the bullet guide).

It appears more as a "Sporting Rifle" and would draw less attention than an EBR. You can still use the standard 10 rd magazine and if need be always slap in a 30 rd mag.

One of my stock Saigas in 16" barrel is only 1" longer than my SKS Chinese 16" Paratrooper.

While I would buy a VZ58 at a decent price for 450 or so, to me there's no comparison for value. The Saiga wins.

Steve

Unless I'm mistaken, just the hi-cap conversion you describe makes the Saiga illegal per 922r. You also have to add the required number of US parts. I've also seen factory Saiga hi cap mags for $50, so I'm not sure how that changes things.

[Guest sgphoto]

Unless I'm mistaken, just the hi-cap conversion you describe makes the Saiga illegal per 922r. You also have to add the required number of US parts. I've also seen factory Saiga hi cap mags for $50, so I'm not sure how that changes things.

You may or may not be mistaken. AKAIK, there has never been an arrest and/or conviction for a 922r "violation". There is even disagreement within the ATF depending on who you talk to.That is the reason I suggest leaving the ten rounder in unless you need the 30rd. If you "need" the 30 rounder, the least of your concerns would be 922r.

Frankly, many of those in commercial business who do conversions to be in what they consider to be "compliance" with 922r shout "illegal" every chance they get. I have to question some of their motives in doing so. Are they really concerned about 922r or are they seeking conversion business? This is not directed at you, Auburn, in any way, unless of course you're in the "conversion" business .

Part of the gun ownership problems we now face are the result of some in the industry turning Benedict Arnolds for various reasons of which money is the prime mover, not the morality or the ethics. Everyone must make their own decisions.

I'm climbing off the soapbox.

Steve

Edited February 21, 2008 by sgphoto

[Auburn]

This is not directed at you, Auburn, in any way, unless of course you're in the "conversion" business .

Nah, I'm not in the business. I just read way to many opinions about what you must/should/can/or could do to a Saiga on the Saiga forum. I went ahead and did the full conversion on mine with fire control group, pistol grip, etc using US parts.

Edited February 22, 2008 by Auburn

[Magiccarpetrides]

Auburn how did you like it once everything was finished? Im sure it looks better, but what about actual shoot-ability? I have a 16" 7.62x39 with skeletal stock on the way.

[Smith]

Here's my 7.62x39 16" converted all the way to AK 103 (with an ACE stock).

[Magiccarpetrides]

pretty....drool.......

[Guest bkelm18]

The conversion is simple, so why risk having an illegal 922r non-compliant gun? Sure, there probably hasn't been an arrest over 922r compliance, but there's a first time for everything... Either leave the Saiga as is, or do the full blown conversion. Besides, you can't deny the sexiness of a converted Russian Saiga.

[Magiccarpetrides]

So you want to help me convert mine when it arrives? I really dont wanna turn mine into a paperweight lol.

[Auburn]

Auburn how did you like it once everything was finished? Im sure it looks better, but what about actual shoot-ability? I have a 16" 7.62x39 with skeletal stock on the way.

Luv it! Even with the conversion it never jams and is dead-on accurate. I still gotta get the barrel threaded to put a AK74 brake on it, then it will be done. I tried one of the pin-on converters that completely sucked.

I'm thinking about getting another Saiga in 223 with a 20 inch barrel.

[Guest tngunman]

It is the pistol grip, bayo lug and threaded barrel and not the 30 rd mag that crosses paths with 922r.

Every MAK 90 shipped with 2 30 rd mags and a thumbhole stock. 922r was passed in '89

[Guest bkelm18]

So you want to help me convert mine when it arrives? I really dont wanna turn mine into a paperweight lol.

The conversion is ridiculously easy. Only took me about an hour and a half, and a large portion of that was trying to drill out the damn spot weld in front of the trigger guard.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Will a dremel do the trick?

[Paletiger13]

Anyone wanna walk me through on building a Krinkov clone in .223? PM me if your interested. Charles

[Guest bkelm18]

Will a dremel do the trick?

It can be done with a Dremel but I'd highly recommend having a drill. The spot weld is tough to get through even with a corded drill and a glass cutting bit, I can only imagine it being tougher with a Dremel.

[Magiccarpetrides]

How bout you just trade me since mine arrived last nite ;-D