Tennessee's defiant illegal aliens

[Guest 6.8 AR]

No, strickj, at the moment and for quite a while, the mexicans have been more determined to

come over the border illegally, than our determination to stop it.

I fail to see how ultra right wing it is to ask for laws to be enforced, instead of allowing them

to come across the border. Your argument is pretty shallow. And Mexico's problems are theirs

not ours.

The only way to solve this problem is to stop it dead cold and start shipping them back as they

are caught, not catch and release, which is the current program. They're mexicans, not trout!

[Guest 6.8 AR]

What the heck is a new norm?

[mikegideon]

What the heck is a new norm?

[strickj]

You "loose" (try lose) the debate because you have a weak argument. We didn't all hate Germans, Chinese or anyone else for no reason. We simply need to enforce current laws. If we did alot of our problems in this area would go away. I for one am willing to pay a little more for lettuce and strawberries to bolster the integrity of our country. By not enforcing the immigration laws for everyone we denigrate (lessen) them for everyone else who has followed the legal path. What does this say to all the folks who have stood in visa lines around the world and entered the U.S. according to U.S. law.

We are slowly losing our own sovereignty.

Not weak, just different then yours. It's just that I know that a fence is like a TICS check. It's not going to stop anyone because there are always ways around it. It's not like they're just going to stop and say "A fence! ****! Better go to the next great country! This one is fenced off..."

And yes, we have always hated immigrants. The first settlers hated German immigrants because they didn't want zee Germans to take their jobs and land. The same is said true for nearly every group of immigrants that's ever stepped foot here. It's in the history books.

It sounds like you would simply let anyone enter illlegally.

I do not want anyone to be in this country illegally. I want our immigration laws changed back to what they once were. I also want everyone here to pay their fair share of taxes.

No, strickj, at the moment and for quite a while, the mexicans have been more determined to

come over the border illegally, than our determination to stop it.

They are more determined now then in previous decades because of one simple reason. Americans do not want to work for chump change. Everyone want's to be rich and everyone want's to have cheap goods. They are capitalizing on that.

Edited March 23, 2011 by strickj

[Dolomite_supafly]

I'll throw another perspective into this, my wife. She is not a US citizen but has been here for over 25 years now. The only accent she has is as if she is from up north or at least that is what everyone thinks. It is other than what we speak locally but no indication of where she is from. She speaks better English than most people here and she definitely writes better than most.

I did not marry her overseas, she had been here for 5 years when we met and it was hard to tell she was from somewhere else because she had already lost most of her accent. She no doubt worked hard to learn our language, both written and verbal, and become fluent in it. Hell she said she would read children's books when she first came here to learn the language.

She is pissed at the illegals but she is even more pissed at those who chose not to even try to learn the language and expect her to learn their's. Some of the worst times I have seen her upset at someone is when she would say something simple in English only to get a blank stare in return. The last time a single word was said, mayonaise. And after receiving nearly everything in the reach of the person she said it to she finally got what she asked for. This is the kind of stuff that upsets her because she knows first hand learning the language we both speak can be done.

_________________________________________________________________

Another reason to curb the illegals is for health reasons. Those who come here illegally are not able to be checked for contagious diseases or other ailments. Also, it is those illegals that live in very close proximity to each other and this causes the spreading of some diseases. This is the reason why some airborne diseases like tuberculosisare spreading so rapidly. I can't even fathom the health costs related to treating those who come here with some sort of disease and then there is the additional cost of those who may not have contracted the disease had the illegal not been here in the first place.

Dolomite

[Defender]

Admittedly, my political beliefs lean a little to the right, but I really don't see our immigration policy as left or right as much as a pure survival issue. If any of you like to read, check out Patrick Buchanon's book, "State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America." You can read about it here: Amazon.com: State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America (9780312360030): Patrick J. Buchanan: Books

A more graphic illustration of just how serious the issue is can be viewed here:

I have no doubt at all that we can significantly reduce or end our immigration problems. What I doubt is our willingness to do so. Perhaps one way to help would be to stop being the world's policeman and station many of our troops on our borders and in our ports. Sure, some will always get in, but a significant reduction would be a big help. If we couple these efforts with social service reform, i.e. welfare, food stamps, disability, unlimited unemployment payments...we can fix the problem.

[JPR1959]

Go back and read the post. No one was wearing a cap, brown. black or white. It was a cap for sale.

As far as illegals go they should be deported, along with that any children who were born here to illegal parents. By default the child should take the citizenship of the illegal parents. Now if the immigrant parents are here legally then by all means allow them to stay and the child is an American citizen. We should not reward illegals who are only coming here to have an anchor baby so they can stay. We also need to bill the county of origin for every illegal we have to transport, house feed or heal. Take the money out of the funding that we are no doubt sending them. Once a country looses millions of our suport dollars because they allow their citizens to illegally enter our country they will begin to do something to secure their borders as well.

Why should we pay to help their country maintain a certain standard of living only to have their citizens come and bilk our country. Kind of like staying in an apartment and having the landlord pay you for staying there, which is ridiculous.

As far as employers go they should also be fined substantially for using illegals.

The main reason, in my eyes that is, why nothing is being done is money. Not money being made by the employers but by the federal government. Say we have 1,000,000 illegals here working under false documents. Now do you think those illegals are going to file their income tax returns at the end of the year, I think not. Now imagine each worker would be getting back $500 if they did file. That is $500,000,000 the feds can use without giving back to the states who are having to pay most of the costs related to the support of the illegals. That may not seem like a lot in the scheme of things but it probably is enough to look the other way in some instances. I suspect there are a lot more than 1,000,000 working under false documents and I suspect their refunds are more than $500 but you get the picture. Add to this that any money given by the feds doesn't include the illegals the states are supporting because the illegals are unlikely to take part in any census. Some states end up with a disproportionately large percentage of illegals but do not receive the funding for the additional drain on their services.

Dolomite

Excellent post. Both political parties want them here. Nothing makes my skin crawl more than to say it's because of how poor other nations are. They should try to raise their standards in their own country, not lower ours!!!

The immigration laws were changed in the 80's taking away the state's right of enforcement and giving it to the US government. States used to be able to set fines for the hiring of illegals, but no longer.

Edited March 23, 2011 by JPR1959

[Guest Scramasax]

Cann't remember the quote. It went like this: A government that cannot protect it's borders is no government. Without a border there is no country.

ts

[NextExit]

"We're here ...and we're not leaving."

I'm gonna get a hat that says this. It's for all us yankees that moved here.

[Jonnin]

I'm gonna get a hat that says this. It's for all us yankees that moved here.

But gun owning yankees are welcome... its the others that can go home.. heck, I welcome CA guys that own guns to TN too.

[Caster]

Start open carrying and tool your holster to say Arrodíllese y ore!

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Not weak, just different then yours. It's just that I know that a fence is like a TICS check. It's not going to stop anyone because there are always ways around it. It's not like they're just going to stop and say "A fence! ****! Better go to the next great country! This one is fenced off..."

And yes, we have always hated immigrants. The first settlers hated German immigrants because they didn't want zee Germans to take their jobs and land. The same is said true for nearly every group of immigrants that's ever stepped foot here. It's in the history books.

I do not want anyone to be in this country illegally. I want our immigration laws changed back to what they once were. I also want everyone here to pay their fair share of taxes.

They are more determined now then in previous decades because of one simple reason. Americans do not want to work for chump change. Everyone want's to be rich and everyone want's to have cheap goods. They are capitalizing on that.

Americans don't want to work for "chump change" because those illegals come in here and:

work for less, pay no income taxes, both which is illegal to us gringos. If we did that we would

be in jail. They have created a second economy.

That, and all the crappy welfare, unemployment benefits we give our lazy to keep them from

working to accumulate votes for politicians. Yep, all this really benefits society, if you're an altruist.

I'll earn my damned money and the government can shrink. There will eventually be a war fought

over the idea of the looting that is going on, and the illegals will end up taking a lot of first shots.

They are part of the problem and the deadbeats are part of the problem. When we wake up and

take back this country from the progressives(R' & D's alike), we may have that chance. You don't

cower to a bunch of deadbeats and say it is a sad reality, you act to get rid of the problem. You

don't shed a tear for their problems, you make them go home and fix their own problems, and keep

them out.

I've met quite a few of those illegals. Some seem like nice folks, but that doesn't make what they

are anything else but illegal. If you give up before you start, you don't have anything of value left.

[strickj]

Americans don't want to work for "chump change" because those illegals come in here and:

work for less, pay no income taxes, both which is illegal to us gringos. If we did that we would

be in jail. They have created a second economy.

That, and all the crappy welfare, unemployment benefits we give our lazy to keep them from

working to accumulate votes for politicians. Yep, all this really benefits society, if you're an altruist.

I'll earn my damned money and the government can shrink. There will eventually be a war fought

over the idea of the looting that is going on, and the illegals will end up taking a lot of first shots.

They are part of the problem and the deadbeats are part of the problem. When we wake up and

take back this country from the progressives(R' & D's alike), we may have that chance. You don't

cower to a bunch of deadbeats and say it is a sad reality, you act to get rid of the problem. You

don't shed a tear for their problems, you make them go home and fix their own problems, and keep

them out.

I've met quite a few of those illegals. Some seem like nice folks, but that doesn't make what they

are anything else but illegal. If you give up before you start, you don't have anything of value left.

I agree with you on everything you said except for the solution. I absolutely hate them being here, draining the system, never paying back into the system, and sending their money "back home".

Spending millions upon millions of dollars to build a fence will not solve any of these problems. At least taxing them will solve all but the last (sending their money "home").

[Oh Shoot]

...At least taxing them will solve all but the last (sending their money "home").

The Fair Tax would get them. There wouldn't be such a thing as unreported income any more. For anyone.

- OS

[Rightwinger]

Oh Shoot speaks with Wisdom!

(add corny asian music in background)

[Guest mosinon]

I'm not sure that they don't pay taxes. In fact, I am fairly sure that if you run the numbers it is a net gain for government tax and expenditure wise.

The free market should solve this, right? Or maybe a tax cut.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

The Fair Tax would get them. There wouldn't be such a thing as unreported income any more. For anyone.

- OS

It would definitely solve that portion of the problem. One more good reason for the fair tax approach.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I agree with you on everything you said except for the solution. I absolutely hate them being here, draining the system, never paying back into the system, and sending their money "back home".

Spending millions upon millions of dollars to build a fence will not solve any of these problems. At least taxing them will solve all but the last (sending their money "home").

I knew you agreed with me, strickj. The only thing we part on is the fence, evidently. but that fence

means more than just symbolism. With laws, already on the books, being enforced, it would go a long

way to fix this problem.

To Hell with la Raza or whatever their organization name is. Just a bunch more communists, probably.

[Glenn]

Cut off all Gov. services and Jail a few CEOs of the companies that hire them. If there is no work they will go home the same way they got here.

Glenn

[Tim Nunan]

Mass deportation of illegal immigrants has been tried before:

Operation Wetback - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The effort began in California and Arizona, and coordinated 1075 Border Patrol agents, along with state and local police agencies, to mount an aggressive crackdown. Tactics employed included going as far as systematic police sweeps of Mexican-American neighborhoods, and using racial profiling on random stops and ID checks of "Mexican-looking" people in a region with many Native Americans and native Hispanics. In some cases, illegal aliens were deported along with their American-born children.

Some 750 agents targeted agricultural areas with a goal of 1,000 apprehensions per day. By the end of July, over 50,000 illegal aliens were caught in the two states. An estimated 488,000 illegal aliens are believed to have left voluntarily, for fear of being apprehended. By September, 80,000 had been taken into custody in Texas, and the INS estimated that 500,000 to 700,000 had left Texas of their own accord. To discourage illicit re-entry, buses and trains took many deportees deep within Mexican territory before releasing them.

Tens of thousands more were deported by two chartered ships: the Emancipation and the Mercurio. The ships ferried them from Port Isabel, Texas, to Veracruz, Mexico, more than 500 mi (800 km) to the south. Some were taken as far as 1000 mi (1600 km). Deportation by sea was ended after seven deportees jumped overboard from the Mercurio and drowned, provoking a mutiny that led to a public outcry in Mexico

How Eisenhower solved illegal border crossings from Mexico http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html

[Guest Chattanoogan]

Easiest way is to truly start enforcing the laws against hiring an illegal...perp-walk a few CEO's/business owners on the 6PM news and I'd bet you would see the jobs drying up...no jobs and I'd be they'll leave on their own (just like they came here on their own).

This is what I do for a living.... Im employed by a union to hold a banner, weve been on the news, you may have seen our 15' by 5' banners in Knoxville,Nashville or Chattanooga, we basically stand out in front of bussinesses with a banner that says Shame on (insert name here). and we protest against companies who hire illegals and use undocumented labor and dont pay proper taxes. The community has to pick up the slack when this happens. Weve been on the news a few times.

[Rightwinger]

What's the going union wage for banner waver now? If I hold up an American flag within sight of you will you file a grievance?

[JayC]

All illegal aliens should be gone...PERIOD.

Easiest way is to truly start enforcing the laws against hiring an illegal...perp-walk a few CEO's/business owners on the 6PM news and I'd bet you would see the jobs drying up...no jobs and I'd be they'll leave on their own (just like they came here on their own).

Yes; there would be a significant impact...much less strain on social services, school systems, less crime, less drunk driving, more employment for real citizens.

We already have something better than that in this state... If your business hires illegals, the state can revoke your business license (ie close your business) for 1 year. Trust me, that is much worse than prep walking a CEO or owner...

The problem? The state refuses to enforce the law! I know for a fact calls have been made to the state and they never send anybody out to investigate.

[Dolomite_supafly]

We already have something better than that in this state... If your business hires illegals, the state can revoke your business license (ie close your business) for 1 year. Trust me, that is much worse than prep walking a CEO or owner...

The problem? The state refuses to enforce the law! I know for a fact calls have been made to the state and they never send anybody out to investigate.

What agency can I call and annoy? I would love to call repeatedly on a few businesses just to make sure they are in compliance. or better yet write a certified letter and make sure to CC it to others to force them to do something. Most often a call can be ignored but the same letter to several offices regarding the same issue cannot.

Dolomite

[mikegideon]

I hope everybody followed the links in Tim Nunan's post. As with most problems with the government's incompetence, it's about political influence and palm greasing. We can discuss it until we're blue in the face. The system is so corrupt that it can't be fixed.