Need help. Permit revoked with no notification and I only found out because..

[Fallguy]

Maybe you can fill us in on how the permit was taken illegally. The permit was revoked by the DOS. Are you saying that a cop can’t seize a revoked permit that should have already been surrendered? How did an HC Permit gain some kind of “hands off” status when it is being used illegally?

Or are you talking about the revocation by the DOS, who already admitted it was a clerical mistake?

That is exactly what the AG is saying. Did you see the Opinion I posted?

It says a LEO can only seize a HCP "at the direction" of the Dept of Safety, not just based on some computer check.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it was "illegal" for him to take the permit, but it was beyond his authorization.

[DaveTN]

That is exactly what the AG is saying. Did you see the Opinion I posted?

It says a LEO can only seize a HCP "at the direction" of the Dept of Safety, not just based on some computer check.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it was "illegal" for him to take the permit, but it was beyond his authorization.

I did read it…. Did you?

Even though it was a mistake; the HCP was revoked. Are you saying that you think a LEO is required to allow a person to remain in possession of a revoked permit? A revocation is "at the direction of the Department of Safety"

My opinion would be that not only was he authorized to seize it; he was required to seize it.

From the AG opinion you posted….

It allows law enforcement officers to seize permits only at the direction of the Department of Safety, after a permit has been suspended or revoked. There are no statutes authorizing a law enforcement officer to seize a handgun carry permit under any other circumstances.

[Fallguy]

I did read it…. Did you?

Even though it was a mistake; the HCP was revoked. Are you saying that you think a LEO is required to allow a person to remain in possession of a revoked permit? A revocation is "at the direction of the Department of Safety"

My opinion would be that not only was he authorized to seize it; he was required to seize it.

From the AG opinion you posted….

But it was NOT revoked...it only mistakenly showed as revoked. Had it actually been revoked, there would have been an order sent out by the DOS for him to return the HCP. Had he not returned it the DOS would have directed an officer to seize it. All of this did not happen.

I really don't think a simple computer check counts as a directive to do anything.

Of course I know in the end you and I will just have to agree to disagree on this....

[Guest cypher235]

Maybe you can fill us in on how the permit was taken illegally. The permit was revoked by the DOS. Are you saying that a cop can’t seize a revoked permit that should have already been surrendered? How did an HC Permit gain some kind of “hands off†status when it is being used illegally?

Or are you talking about the revocation by the DOS, who already admitted it was a clerical mistake?

I don't think a computer check should be the only way a police officer knows if something is valid or revoked. If I have the physical permit in my hand and no order to surrender it then it should be valid, and if they want to prove otherwise they should have to make a physical call to the DOS or something.

For example my friend recently had his driver license suspended. He got everything cleared up and had it re issued, with paper work to prove is was not suspended anymore. He was recently pulled over for speeding and when the police officer ran his license it still came up in the computer that is was suspended. Even though he had the paper work with him to prove it was not! The police officer still told him that he should have to take his license and put him in cuffs for driving with a suspended license, but let him off with a "warning" and a "you need to clear this up with the state".

I'm beginning to wonder if my permit will even show up as valid the next time it is checked...

[DaveTN]

I don't think a computer check should be the only way a police officer knows if something is valid or revoked. If I have the physical permit in my hand and no order to surrender it then it should be valid, and if they want to prove otherwise they should have to make a physical call to the DOS or something.

I understand you being upset, and as I said I think it’s BS if you have to go to court or play games with the DA’s office. Lisa Knight told you your problems were because of someone in her office making a mistake. That’s fine, and it’s understandable that mistake happen. But now whoever is in chargeof Lisa Knight’s office needs to step up and take responsibility for the problems their office has caused. If I were the supervisor of that office I can assure you your problems would be over if I had to walk my azz down to the DA’s office and talk to them myself. I could have done that for you as a Police Officer; I don’t know why the department head of the department that caused the problem can’t. But in all fairness maybe they can and maybe they already have.

I would be pizzed too. But I believe in laying the problems right at the feet of those who caused them; and that was not the cops. If you want to blame the cops; so be it, the problem won’t get fixed.

For example my friend recently had his driver license suspended. He got everything cleared up and had it re issued, with paper work to prove is was not suspended anymore. He was recently pulled over for speeding and when the police officer ran his license it still came up in the computer that is was suspended. Even though he had the paper work with him to prove it was not! The police officer still told him that he should have to take his license and put him in cuffs for driving with a suspended license, but let him off with a "warning" and a "you need to clear this up with the state".

The cop gave your friend a break and at the same time was letting him know that a piece of paper won’t cut it. Do you have any idea how many people act shocked when you put them in cuffs and tow their cars for driving on revoked? Almost all of them.

Was your friend smart enough to heed his warning and get it straightened out? Anyone in the state that has the authority to give you a letter saying your suspension/revocation is over should also make sure your status is changed in the computer. The Officer gave him (and the letter) the benefit of the doubt; some may not.

I'm beginning to wonder if my permit will even show up as valid the next time it is checked...

I don’t blame you. You are lucky you weren’t arrested and taken to jail. What if you had been in another state that puts you in jail and tows your car on a weapons violation?

I would assume that if Lisa Knight tells you she fixed the problem; she fixed the problem. However… if you know a cop, ask them to check. If you don’tknow a cop, leave a message for the cop that arrested you to call you. I would have been happy to run a computer check if I had been the one that arrested you and I’m sure most cops would be.

[dralarms]

You guys got me all paranoid so I called DOS and had mine checked. LOL I must have been the 100th or so that day cause she knew exactly what I wanted.

[Guest m&pc9]

As for how he disarmed me. He asked me to slowly unbuckle my seat belt and step out of the car. At which point I told him where the lcp was clipped onto my waistband. He removed it, cleared it and set it on my truck, then got my insurance, d/l, and permit and went back to his car after telling me to step back into mine and close the door. After a few minutes he came back saying the permit had been revoked, and could not give me a reason why. Backup was called in and I had to wait around another 20 minutes or so for him to file paperwork on the charges and I was then free to go.

The way I read it is, he disarmed you before he found out that the HCP was revoked. I know he can legally do this but, Most of the experiences I read about the LEOs dont disarm the person.

[Fallguy]

The way I read it is, he disarmed you before he found out that the HCP was revoked. I know he can legally do this but, Most of the experiences I read about the LEOs dont disarm the person.

But many do. That is why some people don't bring it up if the LEO doesn't.

[Tnscooter63]

Like several have said get documentation from the court and make sure it is certified/notorized by them even if it cost a few dollars, this goes a long ways if you have to copy and send it to someone down the road. Glad its working out for you and hope you have a backup for carry, when I go where I cant carry I feel underdressed.

[DWARREN123]

My advice is to retain a lawyer just to protect yourself.

[Guest btjudge]

If you have applied for Social Security disability benefits and found disabled secondary to a mental health issue such as depression your permit may then be revoked.

[Fallguy]

If you have applied for Social Security disability benefits and found disabled secondary to a mental health issue such as depression your permit may then be revoked.

Well, that's true.

But the OP explained in post 29 that it was a clerical mistake on the part of the DOS.

[vontar]

DaveTN

In reply to Post 80.

I dint' want to quote everything

I have heard that after fixing a Suspended DL, it can take several days for the records to be totally updated, from county level though the state level in some cases. I do not know why there is a delay in the process. We all know that computers should be instance updates.

However I do agree, Once OP gets his new card needs to have someone run a check.

[Guest tnxdshooter]

DaveTN

In reply to Post 80.

I dint' want to quote everything

I have heard that after fixing a Suspended DL, it can take several days for the records to be totally updated, from county level though the state level in some cases. I do not know why there is a delay in the process. We all know that computers should be instance updates.

However I do agree, Once OP gets his new card needs to have someone run a check.

Good point

Sent from my Droid Incredible on Verizon Wireless using Tapatalk

[DaveTN]

DaveTN

In reply to Post 80.

I dint' want to quote everything

I have heard that after fixing a Suspended DL, it can take several days for the records to be totally updated, from county level though the state level in some cases. I do not know why there is a delay in the process. We all know that computers should be instance updates.

However I do agree, Once OP gets his new card needs to have someone run a check.

I don’t know how it works here. Why would it take several days to update, and why would there be any difference in County/State records? In Illinois there is only one data base and everyone in the state uses it. It’s called LEADS (Law Enforcement Agencies Data System). At the time your Suspension/Revocation is cleared, you were cleared in the computer. Is that not how it works here?

[Fallguy]

I don’t know how it works here. Why would it take several days to update, and why would there be any difference in County/State records? In Illinois there is only one data base and everyone in the state uses it. It’s called LEADS (Law Enforcement Agencies Data System). At the time your Suspension/Revocation is cleared, you were cleared in the computer. Is that not how it works here?

It simply isn't that way here it doesn't seem.... Yes, there is one database as far as status and information, but what effects it comes from all over.

My daughter collected several citations around the state.....never paid them.....got her DL suspended. She had to contact the state to get the list of each agency that sent something in. She paid her fines to each place, paid her reinstatement fee got her DL back. Then it was suspended again because of another ticket in another location that sent in afterwards and hadn't been entered yet. Now....I am not admitting this to highlight the poor decision making on the part of my daughter, but that the State of TN and the HUNDREDS of city and county law enforcement agencies don't always play well with each other when it comes to DL information in TN,

[vontar]

Fallguy made my example. There can be a delay between Local and state levels.

Otherwise when listening to a Police scanner, one would not hear them call in checking for warrants in several counties, they would just check one database.

[JayC]

If you have applied for Social Security disability benefits and found disabled secondary to a mental health issue such as depression your permit may then be revoked.

Uhhh.. I'm not sure about that... under state law you have to be adjudicated mentally defective... I'm not sure I simple SS hearing that says you can't work is the same thing as you're a danger to yourself or others.

Can you back up this claim with some case law? Or an example here in TN?

[Fallguy]

Uhhh.. I'm not sure about that... under state law you have to be adjudicated mentally defective... I'm not sure I simple SS hearing that says you can't work is the same thing as you're a danger to yourself or others.

Can you back up this claim with some case law? Or an example here in TN?

T.C.A. 39-17-1352(a)(6) says your HCP can be revoked/suspended for a violation of any provision of §§ 39-17-1351 — 39-17-1360.

T.C.A. 39-17-1351©(17) says you are not eligible for a HCP if you are "receiving social security disability benefits by reason of alcohol dependence, drug dependence or mental disability"

[ProjectDexter]

Dickson PD is usually pretty good, glad to hear they didn't force you to the ground or anything, of course I know most of the guys but that doesn't mean a whole lot lol

[JayC]

T.C.A. 39-17-1352(a)(6) says your HCP can be revoked/suspended for a violation of any provision of §§ 39-17-1351 — 39-17-1360.

T.C.A. 39-17-1351©(17) says you are not eligible for a HCP if you are "receiving social security disability benefits by reason of alcohol dependence, drug dependence or mental disability"

I stand corrected.

[Oh Shoot]

I stand corrected.

I tell ya, question 11F on 4473 might oughtta be answered yes re that SSI disability thing for mental, also.

- OS