IDPA Caliber

[tt0511]

I've shot in a few beginner matches over the past year and I'm wondering if many people shoot .45 in IDPA. I did in my first match because I shot my carry 1911. The next two times I shot my XDsc 9mm, the first time because it was new and I wanted to try it out, the second time because I had more 9mm ammo on hand.

I noticed that a lot of folks shoot Glock and other 9mm predominately. Are there not many folks shooting .45 1911s? I'm really trying to decide whether I should make my ATI FX45 an IDPA Gun, or trade it for a 9mm XD or XDm. The follow up shots are quicker with 9mm, but not sure how much difference that makes. I like my 1911s and I like my XDsc quite a bit as well. I'm not into hot rodded guns. I like them stock or real close to stock. I can understand getting some trigger work done to help a bad trigger pull, but aside from that I'm pretty much a stock gun shooter. I like to keep things realistic. I do like both 9mm and .45 calibers for different reasons. .45 is fun to shoot because of the power and because of the 1911 platform. 9mm is very comfortable and faster. I looked at the course layout for the next Middle Tenn Shooters IDPA match and I'm really wondering how many magazine changes would be necessary with a 1911 to get through a course of fire! At least three if you don't miss a shot on some of those COFs.

I did buy reloading equipment for both 9mm and .45 but haven't bought components to produce ammo yet. Kinda wondering what you guys think about all of this. It's like a whirlwind in my mind. I probably won't shoot IDPA more than 3-5 times a year for various reasons. But it definitely is fun.

Edited March 15, 2011 by tt0511

[Parrothead]

HOGNUT has helped me out a lot with IDPA info. Might be worth a IM.

personally, i think ammo cost drives this conversation.

[peejman]

If you shoot a lot, 9mm is obviously going to be more cost effective. But if you carry all these different guns, I think there's great value in using each of them at least occasionally. There's no better way to maintain proficiency. Using a "race gun" that you don't carry seems to defeat the whole point of IDPA, but I guess some people just have to win.

[Jonnin]

The cost of 9mm and 45 or any other caliber is evened out a lot with reloading. 45 costs a little more, but not that much, and most "combat" 45s will shoot a lead slug (cheaper) while glocks use jacketed only ammo (unless you swap out the barrel -- your XD can handle lead ammo). So you can, if you reload them, probably do about as well with either gun. Note that most .45 have a lowish capacity; the top 9mm hold over 20 rounds while the majority of the 45s are 15 or less. I dunno about idpa rules on capacity but they seem to have build the thing around glocks and probably have no limit to the number of rounds, but they limit the gun size, so the larger 45 round will never get as many shots in the same dimension gun as a 9mm.... that will hurt your ability to compete a little bit unless they limit everyone to 10 round mags or something (??). If you are not in it to win at all costs, that should not matter.

There is no advantage to a glock. Your XD is very similar, really. If you handed me both of them, I could not tell the difference without looking at them, unless your XD has that grip safety. For some reason I thought the sport did not allow SAO guns like 1911, but I could be mistaken, I really do not know. There is not really that much you can do to a glock to improve it anyway and still have it legal for the sport; you would have to remove the trigger "safety" and 3/4 the trigger travel to fix it, and that wouldnt be allowed (nor safe for carry, it would become a target pistol only).

Note: when I said lead ammo, it has to be a little harder than pure lead, or the slide and feed ramp will deform the bullets, which is very bad. Still, you can shoot the stuff that has no copper, and that is where the price problem is -- they make a type of lead that works in semi-autos, and any 9mm "lead" slugs will be made that way since 99.99 % of all 9mm are semi autos...

[Guest BenderBendingRodriguez]

I dunno about idpa rules on capacity but they seem to have build the thing around glocks and probably have no limit to the number of rounds, but they limit the gun size, so the larger 45 round will never get as many shots in the same dimension gun as a 9mm.... that will hurt your ability to compete a little bit unless they limit everyone to 10 round mags or something (??). If you are not in it to win at all costs, that should not matter.

I'm far from an expert on this as I'm trying to get excited to try IDPA for the first time, but I think some of the time there is no round limit, but there can be requirements for a certain number of reloads during each stage (and sometimes they do limit your rounds). Or perhaps there is a different limit for each class of gun. But the moral of the story is you will never be disadvantaged if your gun can hold a LOT of ammo, and you may be disadvantaged if your gun holds limited ammo, but you may not be as disadvantaged as you might expect. And also it doesn't matter unless you really have your heart set on winning.

I would probably use the XD most of the time because it's a good carry gun and should also translate pretty well over to IDPA. Plus it's cheaper to shoot. However, I would still use the 1911 from time to time if I actually carried it sometimes.

Edited March 15, 2011 by BenderBendingRodriguez

[bvarnell]

QUOTE=Jonnin;702541]The cost of 9mm and 45 or any other caliber is evened out a lot with reloading. 45 costs a little more, but not that much, and most "combat" 45s will shoot a lead slug (cheaper) while glocks use jacketed only ammo (unless you swap out the barrel -- your XD can handle lead ammo). So you can, if you reload them, probably do about as well with either gun. Note that most .45 have a lowish capacity; the top 9mm hold over 20 rounds while the majority of the 45s are 15 or less. I dunno about idpa rules on capacity but they seem to have build the thing around glocks and probably have no limit to the number of rounds, but they limit the gun size, so the larger 45 round will never get as many shots in the same dimension gun as a 9mm.... that will hurt your ability to compete a little bit unless they limit everyone to 10 round mags or something (??). If you are not in it to win at all costs, that should not matter.

1911's (CDP) are limited to 8 rd mags (8+1), all others limited to 10 rds.(10+1)

There is no advantage to a glock. Your XD is very similar, really. If you handed me both of them, I could not tell the difference without looking at them, unless your XD has that grip safety. For some reason I thought the sport did not allow SAO guns like 1911, but I could be mistaken, I really do not know. There is not really that much you can do to a glock to improve it anyway and still have it legal for the sport; you would have to remove the trigger "safety" and 3/4 the trigger travel to fix it, and that wouldnt be allowed (nor safe for carry, it would become a target pistol only).

Glocks shoot in SSP, XD's & XDm's are ESP. IDPA considers the XD's to be single action.

You are allowed to do trigger mods to any pistol, just don't remove any safety features.

You might want to read this (International Defensive Pistol Association) to get the exact verbage. Better yet, Come to Cleveland this Sat. and shoot w/us. ( IDPA, 3GUN, Information, Reviews and Training - Team rangeissafe.com)

Last month, we had 62 shooters, 40 something in Jan. w/5 or 6 inches of snow on the ground. (I don't think any brass was picked up that day)

I usually shoot a 1911, but have shot a XDm. Not sure which this week.

CHRPC is very new shooter friendly. I think there were 8 or 10 last month. I would guess Manchester is the same.

Just don't fall under the evil spell of John and start shooting revo's.

[bvarnell]

I forgot to mention, IDPA was started by Bill Wilson (WILSON pistols).

I doubt he would put in any rules that would disadvantage 1911 shooters.

[gsbell]

45 in my opinion is too expensive to shoot in any quantity without loading your own ammo.

I shoot enough that I load 9mm, my reasons for reloading are:

• low power factor
  
• cost
  
• availability (don't want to rely on walmart for ammo)
  

[Jonnin]

1911's (CDP) are limited to 8 rd mags (8+1), all others limited to 10 rds.(10+1)

Glocks shoot in SSP, XD's & XDm's are ESP. IDPA considers the XD's to be single action.

You are allowed to do trigger mods to any pistol, just don't remove any safety features.

You might want to read this (International Defensive Pistol Association) to get the exact verbage. Better yet, Come to Cleveland this Sat. and shoot w/us. ( IDPA, 3GUN, Information, Reviews and Training - Team rangeissafe.com)

Last month, we had 62 shooters, 40 something in Jan. w/5 or 6 inches of snow on the ground. (I don't think any brass was picked up that day)

I usually shoot a 1911, but have shot a XDm. Not sure which this week.

CHRPC is very new shooter friendly. I think there were 8 or 10 last month. I would guess Manchester is the same.

Just don't fall under the evil spell of John and start shooting revo's.

Thanks for the invite! I may do that someday, I am a member up there. I have a gun I could use now (before when I thought about it, all my stuff was too small (bullet or case length rule) or too big (fit in a box rule)) but I picked up a 9mm that would work since I last looked. We just traded out the wife's glock so it will have to be later, her replacement will be a few weeks away.

[RWF]

if you like 1911 in 45 keep it. you will always be shooting against yourself and others will the same limitations if you wish to call it that. if it is idpa match the most mags you can have on you is 2 on the belt and 1 in the gun. and the the max limit of rounds per stage is 18.

but of course at a local match they may spice it up alittle from time to time. which to me is a good thing. have fun.

[deerslayer]

If you're only going to shoot IDPA 3-5 times a year, shoot whichever gun you carry the most. Ammo cost won't be much of a factor--you are talking about perhaps 400 rounds/year.

[Oh Shoot]

....There is no advantage to a glock. Your XD is very similar, really. If you handed me both of them, I could not tell the difference without looking at them, unless your XD has that grip safety...

???

- OS

[HOGNUT]

HOGNUT has helped me out a lot with IDPA info. Might be worth a IM.

personally, i think ammo cost drives this conversation.

I will be more than happy to discuss any questions or concerns you may have. Just shoot me some contact info via email or by PM and I will call you at a convienent time to discuss.

[Guest 85rx-7gsl-se]

This may have been already raised or it may have some classing issues but why not get a 1911 chambered in 9mm?

[Jonnin]

???

- OS

There appear to be about 50,000 different things called "XD". Not caring for the style, I was not sure if they all had that or not. Not important to this thread though, the point is his XD should be more than fine for the sport and the glock guys dont have any edge over him in the events.

[tt0511]

This may have been already raised or it may have some classing issues but why not get a 1911 chambered in 9mm?

Well, I could do that but it's more $$$. The ATI FX45 I have is brand new. I really like the look and feel of that gun. I've only shot about a box of ammo through it. So, I'd hate to sell it to fund a 9mm 1911 purchase. It's my understanding that 9mm 1911s can be fussy.

The cost of the ammo really doesn't seem to be an issue to me since I recently bought my first reloading setup. I just haven't churned out any ammo yet. We recently discovered the wife is pregnant and I've been trying to find out if reloading in the house is safe for her and the child with the gunpowder and such. We don't have a garage.

Part of my concern was when I looked at the courses of fire for the upcoming match for Mid Tenn Shooters (see the other subforum on local competitions). I have shot their beginner/first timer introduction match a month or two ago and shot my XD. The courses didn't look nearly as intimidating or high in round count that day compared to the courses posted for the "real" match this time.

So, the question that hit me real quick is how would one ever get through one of those courses of fire without doing 3-4 reloads in a 1911. That's what got me wondering about whether using the XD was a better option due to mag capacity. That, then, led me to wonder if I should shoot my 3" sub compact XD or just trade the ATI 1911 for a 4.5" XD to gain the extra sight radius on the XD format for competition shooting.

Edited March 16, 2011 by tt0511
spelling

[Jonnin]

Well, I could do that but it's more $$$. The ATI FX45 I have is brand new. I really like the look and feel of that gun. I've only shot about a box of ammo through it. So, I'd hate to sell it to fund a 9mm 1911 purchase. It's my understanding that 9mm 1911s can be fussy.

The cost of the ammo really doesn't seem to be an issue to me since I recently bought my first reloading setup. I just haven't churned out any ammo yet. We recently discovered the wife is pregnant and I've been trying to find out if reloading in the house is safe for her and the child with the gunpowder and such. We don't have a garage.

Part of my concern was when I looked at the courses of fire for the upcoming match for Mid Tenn Shooters (see the other subforum on local competitions). I have shot their beginner/first timer introduction match a month or two ago and shot my XD. The courses didn't look nearly as intimidating or high in round count that day compared to the courses posted for the "real" match this time.

So, the question that hit me real quick is how would one ever get through one of those courses of fire without doing 3-4 reloads in a 1911. That's what got me wondering about whether using the XD was a better option due to mag capacity. That, then, led me to wonder if I should shoot my 3" sub compact XD or just trade the ATI 1911 for a 4.5" XD to gain the extra sight radius on the XD format for competition shooting.

Regular primers and, of course, most bullets contain lead. This is bad for anyone to eat, and strongly recommended to be kept away from young kids that consider tasting of everything to be one of the best ways to learn more about the item in question.... Non toxic primers have no lead in them but you still should avoid eating them. The lead, if not eaten, is not going to pollute the home, as it is contained in these items and does not evaporate or anything unless you are boiling the lead inside to cast bullets (dont do that, even without kids, take that mess outside!).

Gun powder is probably also best not consumed, but traces of it that get loose in the house (and, it WILL) should be harmless. Its mostly carbon and nitrates, and more or less harmless to touch or even eat in small amounts. I doubt the texture and taste would encourage even a kid to eat much of it.

Bottom line: lock up your reloading supplies until your kid reaches about age 25 (just kidding, but age 8 maybe for real). Also, small hands can get mangled in the press, esp the undeneath part where it transfers the force thru a couple of hinges and such. I would say devise a way to lock the press all the way up or down and lock up the materials when not in use, and it will be fine to reload in the home. The same goes for live ammo, keep that away from kids too. And loaded guns are right out. The biggest dangers, IMHO, are lead poisioning and crushed hands from the press.

[tt0511]

Regular primers and, of course, most bullets contain lead. This is bad for anyone to eat, and strongly recommended to be kept away from young kids that consider tasting of everything to be one of the best ways to learn more about the item in question.... Non toxic primers have no lead in them but you still should avoid eating them. The lead, if not eaten, is not going to pollute the home, as it is contained in these items and does not evaporate or anything unless you are boiling the lead inside to cast bullets (dont do that, even without kids, take that mess outside!).

Gun powder is probably also best not consumed, but traces of it that get loose in the house (and, it WILL) should be harmless. Its mostly carbon and nitrates, and more or less harmless to touch or even eat in small amounts. I doubt the texture and taste would encourage even a kid to eat much of it.

Bottom line: lock up your reloading supplies until your kid reaches about age 25 (just kidding, but age 8 maybe for real). Also, small hands can get mangled in the press, esp the undeneath part where it transfers the force thru a couple of hinges and such. I would say devise a way to lock the press all the way up or down and lock up the materials when not in use, and it will be fine to reload in the home. The same goes for live ammo, keep that away from kids too. And loaded guns are right out. The biggest dangers, IMHO, are lead poisioning and crushed hands from the press.

Yeah, it'll be a minimum of a year and a half before I have to worry about any incidents with children's hands in the equipment. The wife has a long way to go before delivery. My concern was with the gunpowder. I didn't know if it would "dust" up if spilled or when filling the powder reserve on the press. Chidren in the womb can be very susceptible to chemicals. I didn't think there was a big danger with gunpowder. I just wasn't sure being new to all of it.

[Jonnin]

no expert but its not really dusty in any format I have ever seen. Its sort of sticky (it isnt, but it likes static cling, so it stays put where it lands often) and largish pellets that do not seem to dust. It doesnt have any warnings about birth defects, just explosions, really.

Again, all I can figure out is the usual:

Discharging firearms in poorly ventilated areas, cleaning firearms or handling ammunition may result in exposure to lead and other substances known cause birth defects, reproductive harm and other serious physical injury

which is all about the lead.

[AMSting]

As far as IDPA, decide why you are doing it. If it is to win, take the gun that gives you the biggest advantage. That could be capacity or caliber, or whatever you shoot best, preferably all three. If you are going so you can learn how to react in high stress situations, take your carry gun.

[chances R]

I think that if anyone reloading follows basic common-sense guidelines, there would be no problems at any stage of pregnancy or raising children. I've reloaded shotgun shells for over 50 years at all stages.......I think me and the kids are mostly normal. I even have had the kids help. Everyone washes their hands afterwards, no eating, drinking etc. while reloading. There is always a small amount of powder and lead pellets around, but unless ingested it's not a problem. Toddlers can be kept out of the room, or be more meticulous in clean-up. Use basic storage precautions with gunpowder.

[gsbell]

Part of my concern was when I looked at the courses of fire for the upcoming match for Mid Tenn Shooters (see the other subforum on local competitions). I have shot their beginner/first timer introduction match a month or two ago and shot my XD. The courses didn't look nearly as intimidating or high in round count that day compared to the courses posted for the "real" match this time.

The upcoming match at Music City Tactical Shooters is not one of our typical IDPA matches. It is purposely a high round count non IDPA match. An IDPA stage can only be 18 rounds max, so your average match is 100 rounds or less. Hope this helps!

[HOGNUT]

Part of my concern was when I looked at the courses of fire for the upcoming match for Mid Tenn Shooters (see the other subforum on local competitions). I have shot their beginner/first timer introduction match a month or two ago and shot my XD. The courses didn't look nearly as intimidating or high in round count that day compared to the courses posted for the "real" match this time.

Was this the match you went to? MCTS Intro Competitive Shooting TGO Meet and Greet

That match was a small taste of what we do on regular matches. These can seem intimidating at first. The only way to eliminate that fear and get better is to keep practicing and coming out.

[Spiffy]

I forgot to mention, IDPA was started by Bill Wilson (WILSON pistols).

I doubt he would put in any rules that would disadvantage 1911 shooters.

I remember they changed the rules when Sig 45s were beating 1911 pattern guns. From what I read most "gamers" drink the 40 kool aid now.

[tt0511]

The upcoming match at Music City Tactical Shooters is not one of our typical IDPA matches. It is purposely a high round count non IDPA match. An IDPA stage can only be 18 rounds max, so your average match is 100 rounds or less. Hope this helps!

That makes me feel MUCH better, ha ha.