Proper Distance to Zero an EOTech Specifically For HD Use?

[RobertNashville]

I need a little expertise as I'm almost a complete novice when it comes to sights and especially zeroing a sight.

I have a SCAR (light .223/5.56) that is 100% for home defense purposes. I purchased a used EOTech 512 from a forum member to use with it and I have a good bore sight for it. Longest distance within my house if roughly 30 feet/10 yards.

My question is, should I zero the EOTech so that is precisely on target at approximately 10 yards or should I zero it at the more normal 50 or 100 yards?

My common sense tells me that I should zero it at about the distance I am most likely going to need to use it but I'm honestly not sure. I'm also thinking that sing the bore sight, I should be able to adjust my EOTech to precisely match the laser dot from the bore at 10 yards and be very close to being on target at that distance.

Perhaps this is all "moot" since at 10 yards I ought to be able to hit a man-sized target with out any sighting system save for the iron sights on the weapon but any insight would be appreciated!

Thanks!!!

Edited March 15, 2011 by RobertNashville

[LngRngShtr]

most houses will be 10 yds. or less so thats a good thought

however bore offset will be a possible issue the sight being higher than the bore by say 2" and may not adjust down enough causing low hits ( bullet has no chance to rise to EoTechs line of sight that close ) and if you are close to cover the sight will see clear but bullet path may be obstructed by a chair back, book case etc. USPSA shooting with an optically sighted pistol taught me that lesson ( disqualification for shooting props closer than 3 ft. I think the distance was ) and any bullet can be deflected which is bad.

10 yds with a rifle would probably be more instinct then precision... the thoracic triangle is almost a foot tall by a foot at the base....or as I used when helping a few shooters,.. hold a paper plate up centerline with the human form with the base of that plate resting on an imaginary horizontal line from one nipple to the other because most ranges don't mind if you shoot at paper plates but balk heavily at humanoid or any kind of target they are not used to.

Just a thought...

John

[gunrunner32]

If you are using it for HD purposes only then a simple point of aim/point of impact would work best at the desired distance. You could go with the 25/300 meter zero which is the standard military zero or you could go with a 50/200 meter zero which I like to use. Using a standard M4 zero target you should be able to achieve the zero at either 3 ways. All you are going to have to do is figure out the grid method and how many clicks it will take to move the EOTech dot to the desired location. Or you could go the cheap way and color some 1" black squares on a piece of paper and put your dot directly on them and get the impact zone on the lower half of the square. That's the cheap method and how I usually do mine since my wife yells at me when I "waste ink" printing off targets. You could also get in contact with the nice folks at Mid-south Institute of Self-defense Shooting ( - MidSouth Institute of Self Defense Shooting - Weapons Training, Firearms Training, Pistol, Shotgun, Carbine ) and they have some awesome zero targets that you can buy from them. Once I get home I'll be able to mail you a bunch of printable zero targets for various platforms. I'll have to check my cd's and I may have one for the SCAR, I know I have an armorers presentation on disassembly/reassembly for the SCAR. I'll see what I have this weekend for you.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I would just zero at 25 yards or 50 yards. I seriously doubt there is enough elevation in an Eotech for a 10 yard zero anyways.

Even if you zero for 100 yards the bullet impact is still going to hit the bad guy at the distance you are talking about. The muzzle is below the sight so the impact is going to be a bit low and will continue to get lower the closer to the target you get. But even with that the impact is only going to be 1.5"-2" low, even at point blank. Think about it, a shot at the forhead is still going to hit the nasal cavity, which is a deadly hit even if it is 1.5"-2" low. A shot aimed at center mass is still going to hit an area that is likely going to stop the bad guy.

I would zero mine when overseas at 50 yards. It worked well enough that I never thought about changing the zero.

I would recommend a set of hearing protection be kept with the firearm. Shooting a 5.56 in any enclosed area can be disorientating. When I was using my AR for home defense I had a set of ear muffs on the butt of the rifle so they were handy.

I would use some decent expanding ammunition like TAP or even SP's. Your 7 twist barrel doesn't lend itself to allowing the bullets to tumble inside the target, especially if you are using FMJ bullets. It is the tumbling that makes FMJ's effective and without them tumbling they WILL pass right through your intented target unless the target is huge. The bullets need to tumble or fragment to be most effective so I would use something that is designed to fragment rather than hope on the bullets tumbling out of a 7 twist barrel.

The SCAR's are nice, maybe one day I can manage the cash to buy one.

Dolomite

[R1100R]

Here is the target fron Eotech website.

http://www.eotech-inc.com/documents/M16A4-M4MWS_EOTech_Live_Fire_Target.pdf

[Guest BenderBendingRodriguez]

If it were me I would probably zero out to a greater distance in the off chance I ever wanted to take the thing out of the house and do something else with it. If you have enough time to get a decent bead on something in a HD situation, you will be able to aim a bit lower than normal (not that the difference is going to make that much difference). If you're reacting quickly to a threat, you're going to do just fine with a point-and-shoot system anyway.

Plus, when Z Day comes, if the zombies have made it into your house all is lost. Got to get them while they're still out in the street.

[Jonnin]

I noticed my red dot sight had serious elevation problems when I tried to use it for short ranges of 7, 14, and 21 feet. I put it dead on at 21 and it was inches off at 7, and fixed that, it was inches off at 21 again. There is no good setting that works on some optics at a variety of really short ranges, the farther out you go, the less it seems to happen (so, 125 and 150 yards can almost use the same setting, its not even one inch off, while a couple of feet makes an inch up close). I know the eotech is better and not the same as my red dot, but this same problem happens with a low power scope, and possibly other devices, yours may or may not suffer from this problem and to whatever extent, test it to find out!

All that to say I am slowly making a 223 pistol into a package. I was going to go with the scope and 45 degee off that red dot, but the red dot issue above made me change my mind. I am now thinking about using a laser sight (laser pointer, whatever its called officially) for the up close work instead. I have not had a chance to try that out, but the laser can be put nearly in line with the barrel and "should" suffer less from this sort of problem.

If you are going to go with the setup you have (not multiple devices or anything):

I would say set up the sight you have at the range where you would prefer to aim instead of just point & spray. At 10 feet, you can hit an enemy without any aiming at all, and 4 or 5 223 should make most folks stop doing whatever they were doing and think about something else (if nothing else, they will be blind and deaf now, and possibly on fire). If you set up your sight to hit the target dead on at 25 feet, it should "work" from 20-30 feet, and if they charge in or are closer, it will be a little bit off but you can swap to point&shoot when they get that close. That is how I would do it.

I do not think you would easily justify most shootings that you are involved in at more than 50 yards. Picking off some guy that is 100-200 yards out is going to be a tough sell to a jury. Just saying. You really should not need to be doing that in most realistic circumstances, and it should be a low priority to focus on shooting those ranges defensively.

Edited March 15, 2011 by Jonnin

[RobertNashville]

If you are using it for HD purposes only then a simple point of aim/point of impact would work best at the desired distance. You could go with the 25/300 meter zero which is the standard military zero or you could go with a 50/200 meter zero which I like to use. Using a standard M4 zero target you should be able to achieve the zero at either 3 ways. All you are going to have to do is figure out the grid method and how many clicks it will take to move the EOTech dot to the desired location. Or you could go the cheap way and color some 1" black squares on a piece of paper and put your dot directly on them and get the impact zone on the lower half of the square. That's the cheap method and how I usually do mine since my wife yells at me when I "waste ink" printing off targets. You could also get in contact with the nice folks at Mid-south Institute of Self-defense Shooting ( - MidSouth Institute of Self Defense Shooting - Weapons Training, Firearms Training, Pistol, Shotgun, Carbine ) and they have some awesome zero targets that you can buy from them. Once I get home I'll be able to mail you a bunch of printable zero targets for various platforms. I'll have to check my cd's and I may have one for the SCAR, I know I have an armorers presentation on disassembly/reassembly for the SCAR. I'll see what I have this weekend for you.

I'll check out the targets and appreciate your help!

[RobertNashville]

I would just zero at 25 yards or 50 yards. I seriously doubt there is enough elevation in an Eotech for a 10 yard zero anyways.

Even if you zero for 100 yards the bullet impact is still going to hit the bad guy at the distance you are talking about. The muzzle is below the sight so the impact is going to be a bit low and will continue to get lower the closer to the target you get. But even with that the impact is only going to be 1.5"-2" low, even at point blank. Think about it, a shot at the forhead is still going to hit the nasal cavity, which is a deadly hit even if it is 1.5"-2" low. A shot aimed at center mass is still going to hit an area that is likely going to stop the bad guy.

I would zero mine when overseas at 50 yards. It worked well enough that I never thought about changing the zero.

I would recommend a set of hearing protection be kept with the firearm. Shooting a 5.56 in any enclosed area can be disorientating. When I was using my AR for home defense I had a set of ear muffs on the butt of the rifle so they were handy.

I would use some decent expanding ammunition like TAP or even SP's. Your 7 twist barrel doesn't lend itself to allowing the bullets to tumble inside the target, especially if you are using FMJ bullets. It is the tumbling that makes FMJ's effective and without them tumbling they WILL pass right through your intented target unless the target is huge. The bullets need to tumble or fragment to be most effective so I would use something that is designed to fragment rather than hope on the bullets tumbling out of a 7 twist barrel.

The SCAR's are nice, maybe one day I can manage the cash to buy one.

Dolomite

From all the replies; it does sound as if zeroing at 50 Yards may be best.

I actually have two SCARS; one will have an ACOG which I've purchased but haven't mounted yet...this SCAR is set up specifically for HD although should I ever need to take it outside (for Zombie killing and such ) then zeroing at 50 yards might be best since, as you say, the difference shooting at something 10 yards or less away is probably not significant anyway.

I do love the SCAR...great fun to shoot. I can't really compare it to an AR because I've never owned one...my prior experience with rifles before buying the SCARS we with M14s and M1s and that was a LONG time ago!

Oh and yes...I keep electronic hearing protection by the SCAR when I have it out of my safe...I figure that the hearing protection plus the amplification of low-level noises offers a lot of advantages. I also keep TAP ammo loaded at home. One of the reasons I went with a .223./5.56 for HD is because with the right ammo, it seems to offer both better impact on a bad guy and less over penetration risk than any handgun ammo.

Edited March 15, 2011 by RobertNashville

[Caster]

Here is the target fron Eotech website.

http://www.eotech-inc.com/documents/M16A4-M4MWS_EOTech_Live_Fire_Target.pdf

What is the ACTUAL size of this target? Would it be 18cmx20cm or what? I would like to print this out or have it printed. If I'm gonna do it, may as well do it right.

Thanks!!!

[Guest Blackhorse1108]

Um....I know Im late....Its your life...Its your Rifle...LEARN AND MASTER YOUR HEIGHT OVER BORE AND HOLDS at the given ranges in your house...Practice them from zero out to 20 yards,Knnow where you need to be holding to get the PROPER hits on your target..for that you need the "Proper" targets as well so you dont learn bad habits from shooting at "Bullseyes" rather then the upp thoracic cavity as mentioned eariler in the post, And SERIOUSLY consider either A) electric ear muffs bedside and Supressor or at the least a flash hider or a noveske KX3 which will direct blast forward to bad guy..These items will all work in your favor in case of a "in door " shoot situation...Which if you have never had the pleaseure of experiencing an operator discharge an M4 (556) 3 ft to your right during a wall flood manuver with no HP... sucks big time!!

Just my 2cents

Stay Safe

[R1100R]

What is the ACTUAL size of this target? Would it be 18cmx20cm or what? I would like to print this out or have it printed. If I'm gonna do it, may as well do it right.

Thanks!!!

Set the print to 100% and print. Measure the squares for 1CM .

[Caster]

Thank you.

[RobertNashville]

Um....I know Im late....Its your life...Its your Rifle...LEARN AND MASTER YOUR HEIGHT OVER BORE AND HOLDS at the given ranges in your house...Practice them from zero out to 20 yards,Knnow where you need to be holding to get the PROPER hits on your target..for that you need the "Proper" targets as well so you dont learn bad habits from shooting at "Bullseyes" rather then the upp thoracic cavity as mentioned eariler in the post, And SERIOUSLY consider either A) electric ear muffs bedside and Supressor or at the least a flash hider or a noveske KX3 which will direct blast forward to bad guy..These items will all work in your favor in case of a "in door " shoot situation...Which if you have never had the pleaseure of experiencing an operator discharge an M4 (556) 3 ft to your right during a wall flood manuver with no HP... sucks big time!!

Just my 2cents

Stay Safe

No need to apologize for being "late".

I think I'll probably go ahead and zero at a more traditional 50 yards and yes, I agree, I need to practice at appropriate distances.

I have (and keep) electric muffs with in my bedroom at night and usually have a pair handy in the living room as well so that whatever firearm I pick up I have both the hearing protection and the advantage of amplifying any sounds the bad guy might be making in the dark!