Tsunami in Japan

[vontar]

Well tell me, did the tsunami wave actually hit the plant or was it just the quaking that go it? If it was the wave that got the plant then they really did not plan it's location well enough. I know a 9.0 is a bit much to plan against, if not almost impossible but location, location, location. You can built away from tsunami danger.

[leroy]

All:____________

Looked at my two sources for news (...the one's ive been linkin to...). Pretty quiet; no update yet. Still pumping to the fuel pits and working on the powerline. Mabee more later.

RE: The discussion regarding the plant location. We all need to remember that the nuclear plant (...or a fossil plant, or a gas fired plant...) must be located near a large body of water (...in this case, the ocean...). The reason is that in order for the steam cycle to work, you need bunches of cooling water to pump thru the condensers of the units to cool the spent steam. We're talking lots of water here with a good cool temerature to increase the plant effiency. That, in a nutshell, is why the plant is situated on the ocean -- it simply aint a question of some nerdy engineer making a mistake as to where to locate the plant, or that property prices were lower there. Take the time to take a look at where your nearest powerplant to you is located. In every case, it's located on a sizeable body of flowing water. That location is not just a preference; it's a necessity.

RE: Pumping water over a long distance. It aint as easy as it would seem. All pumps, no matter the size or number of stages (...some pumps are multistage to increase pressure --- more pump impellers on the shaft --...) will only lift or pump a certain vertical and horizontal distance. Then you need another pump to pick up the water and pump it another distance. My guess is that if you could see the firetruck setup all the way from the ocean to the delivery point, you would see several trucks, each pumping into a reservoir ahead of it (...higher in elevation...) until the water gets to the place they need to drop it on (...the fuel pits...). This is a helluva headache. You have to keep everything running (....that means fueled, serviced, constantly manned...) and in sequence. One hu-ho and the pumping chain stops. That's why i think you see the "staging area" full of trucks. They are being serviced, refuelled, etc -- you get the picture. That is why getting this powerline tied in and one of the D-G sets running is so important to them.

Like kblem says, "It. is. just. not. that. simple..." His post is dead on target. What these guys are doing is a very large and complex job. It's being done around the clock and in real dangerous conditions. As far as im concerned, all these folks are real heroes who are doing things for the good of their families (...if there are any of them left...), their neighbors (...if there are any of them left...), and their country. They are a far different breed than some in our country who squall for help or run away when things get tough; or call an international meeting complete with a bunch of pseudo-experts to study the problem. They aint got time for that. They have to do something NOW -- a few hours later, it may be too late. Remember General Patton's great quip: "A workable plan now is better that an great plan five minutes from now"... That is the situation these folks are in. I say they are "the best of the best" among the human creatures. Let's keep sending up the prayers that these folks get this powerline tied in soon so they can handle this a bit easier.

Hope this gives a bit more perspective.

leroy

[Guest db99wj]

Thought I saw on the news that they either got power or an emergency generator running on #5 reactor. Looking for the story but haven't found it yet.

[Guest mikedwood]

Blows my mind there are so many news channels and webpages and news STOPS hard on the weekends.

NPR is reporting that the number 3 reactor has stablized to near 0 levels of radiation

NPR CNN and Fox are reporting that there are radioactive traces of iodine and cessium in tap water, spinich and milk within 65 miles of the reactor site.

Power is expected to be back to the number 3 and 4 reactors Sunday morning (I guess that's our tonight)

[leroy]

All:_______________

Here is a good report (...for a change...) RE: the plant and ongoing accident mitigation activities: Fukushima nuclear accident: Saturday 19 March summary « BraveNewClimate.

leroy

[Guest 6.8 AR]

However, as earthquakes and tsunami's are common in the entire island nation of Japan as much care and backup plans should have been in place.

In the number of days since the quake, they should have been able to roll out flexible temporary water hose from point A to B to pipe water up to the plant faster then they can drive trucks up, just a guest. Japan is not a 3rd world nation here. I am sure they could get a water delivery system rigged up quick.

O Yea, based on their reaction to our Nuclear Ships, a couple years back, Yes I am shocked that they don't have their plants built to take a 9.0 or 9.5 even.

U.S. submarine radiation leak raises concern in Japan

U.S. submarine radiation leak raises concern in Japan | Reuters

In July 2008, they found the sub had leaked a small amount of radiation, so they informed Japan as it had been inside Japan waters from late March to early April.

OK, it is late and I am about to go over board if I don't quit.

And I'm not going to argue something I don't know, but, they are doing a remarkable job after

what hit them. Comparing a submarine problem that was minor and extrapolating an unknown

thing from it and then saying they should have a long hose ready might be a bit over the top.

In the first place, assuming they are lying to us isn't healthy for anyone. The media is reporting

mostly what they want to assume, relying on a lot of gossip and little fact is wrong, but reporting,

propaganda and speculation leads to bad information. All has been found lately in the reporting.

I doubt they were completely ready, obviously, and everyone can put their hindsight blinders on

and say what they should have done, or been ready for. The fact that they have so much fewer

casualties is a testament to their preparedness. I doubt anyone could be ready for what hit them.

When it comes to nuclear anything, everyone anti comes out of the woodwork.

Leroy, thanks for your links. Those are more invaluable than any of the reporting. They are a

whole lot less political, and much more believable than most everything I've found.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Well tell me, did the tsunami wave actually hit the plant or was it just the quaking that go it? If it was the wave that got the plant then they really did not plan it's location well enough. I know a 9.0 is a bit much to plan against, if not almost impossible but location, location, location. You can built away from tsunami danger.

I haven't heard anything about that. A good question. It probably did, to some degree.

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

» When An ill Wind Blows From Afar! (Like from Japan, Iran or N. Korea) Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

» Japanese mayor urges evacuation after discovering government misled on dangers Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

» Mainstream media halts accurate reporting on Japan’s worsening nuclear catastrophe; disinfo campaign now underway Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

[leroy]

All:______________

RE: The tsunami wave hitting the plant. I believe it did. I seem to have read that the tsunami wave was 7.1 meters high -- thats about 23 and one half feet tall. It seems that ive seen some photos that show the switchyard partially full of water. If that is so; the tsunami wave was the worst part of the problem. It evidently either flooded or tore down the interties between the station power and the transmission lines or flooded out the cable tunnels; or both. TEPCO did say for sure that the tsunami wave was the cause of the diesel generator failure.

My guess is that crews have been pumping and drying out these cable tunnels since this whole thing began, while the guys you keep seeing and hearing about in the news were busy getting water to everything else. Check out this video for an annimation of the probable time line for the problems: YouTube - Timeline: Japan's nuclear trouble

Here is some late breaking news on the powerline intertie: http://e.nikkei.com/e/fr/tnks/Nni20110320D19JFF09.htm

Hope this helps.

leroy

Edited March 19, 2011 by leroy

[vontar]

OK, then yes, they did make a big mistake building the plant where it could be hit by a freaking tsunami. There are certain things you can plan for and some things you can not plan for. That falls in the category they should have planned for since Japan is used to being hit by tsunami waves.

[leroy]

....OK, then yes, they did make a big mistake building the plant where it could be hit by a freaking tsunami. There are certain things you can plan for and some things you can not plan for. That falls in the category they should have planned for since Japan is used to being hit by tsunami waves. ...

I would almost bet that there is a seawall of some sort around the plant (...at least the front...) to stop the crushing effect of the water. My guess is that it simply got overtopped and flooding caused the damage. It didn't hurt the wall, it just went over it and flooded it like a swimming pool. It's hard to say without looking at the drawings. I bet this question is addressed before the next unit is built.

leroy

[Guest mikedwood]

I read that the Japanese government forgot to give out the KI pills for 3 days after the leak started in the evacuation and/or stay indoors 20k region. Certainly had enough on their plate.

[Guest FiddleDog]

Is TGO discussing anything that we as members can do for those effected in Japan?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Yes, Fiddle Dog, some of us like to discuss things

like this. What was your question again?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[leroy]

All:_______________

Here is the latest update on the plants: Stabilisation at Fukushima Daiichi.

Looks like the power is tied in, plant cooling systems are running, and the temperatures in the fuel pits are going down (...more water plus heat removal equipment working...). Looks like the checkout is about complete to the main control room. That will make monitoring and operating the plant cooling systems much easier than before. Note the last paragraph of this status report.

The fact is that these heroes have about whipped this problem. The nation of Japan, the people of Japan, the stockholders of TEPCO, General Electric, Westinghouse, and the world commercial nuclear power industry (...as well as us...) owe these heroes a great debt of gratitude. These folks have done something that had never been done before; they rescued these plants from a "station blackout" --- no power anywhere to run anything ---the ultimate Jane Fonda "China Syndrome".

It is now day nine after the quake and tsunami. Remember how long Three Mile Island went on? I predict that the naysayers, pseudo-experts, anti's, regulators, and news media will suddenly think that the "near nuclear melt-down" in Japan is a non story in the next few days. Let's wait and see.

Again, thank you heroes. God bless the brave!!

leroy

[Guest db99wj]

This story is so yesterday, we are in a new war with Libya! Nothing to see here!

All kidding aside, great news, God bless the workers.

[leroy]

....This story is so yesterday, we are in a new war with Libya! Nothing to see here!

All kidding aside, great news, God bless the workers. ...

Aint it the truth, brother!!

Keep up the good work.

leroy

OH: RE: FiddleDog's excellent question:

...Is TGO discussing anything that we as members can do for those effected in Japan? ...

I think one of the quickest ways to help the folks in Japan is to look at "Samaritan's Purse". They are busy sending people and stuff to Japan. Link here: http://www.samaritanspurse.org/index.php/articles/pray_for_japan/ . I think it might be a good idea to donate and mention that it is from the concerned folks at TGO. Whatdaya think?

leroy

Edited March 21, 2011 by leroy

[Guest FiddleDog]

I would totally support that.

[leroy]

...I would totally support that. ...

Me too. Will send some $$ now.

leroy

[Oh Shoot]

By all accounts, the Red Cross has once again become one of the least wasteful charities, with something like .92 on the dollar actually being spent on their missions.

The "celebrity funds" complete with telethons, have been shown to be bogus over and over. The Clinton led Haiti fund just basically disappeared, no accountability at all, for example.

- OS

[strickj]

You can text "redcross" to 90999 and they will charge 10 bucks to your cell phone for each text. You can't get much easier then that.

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

[leroy]

All:______________

Here is an interesting summary report on the four units: 10+ days of crisis at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant – 22 March 2010 « BraveNewClimate.

RE: Radiation/contamination in Japan: Radiation trends in Japan

By the way, it's 4792 miles from Tokyo to Seattle, WA. It's 5487 miles from Tokyo to Los Angeles. It's 6560 miles from Tokyo to Austin, TX. It's 6600 miles from Tokyo to Memphis. My guess is that we wont have to worry about getting contaminated..

For what it's worth.

leroy

[Guest db99wj]

Breaking News. Tokyo water not safe for infants. Levels are twice the level suggested for infant consumption.

However, levels are still lower than many cities around the world.

Source: Watched this report this morning on the Today Show, NBC News.

Concerns about food safety spread Wednesday to Tokyo after officials said tap water showed elevated levels: 210 becquerels per liter of iodine-131 — more than twice the recommended limit of 100 becquerels per liter for infants. The recommended limit for adults is 300 becquerels. Concerns about food safety spread Wednesday to Tokyo after officials said tap water showed elevated levels: 210 becquerels per liter of iodine-131 — more than twice the recommended limit of 100 becquerels per liter for infants. The recommended limit for adults is 300 becquerels.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42225380/ns/world_news-asiapacific/

Edited March 23, 2011 by db99wj

[Guest db99wj]

The media is still inducing panic, the Today show led off their show with this crap, and some rapper who is on probation for beating up Rhianna, broke a window. :facepalm: are you f'n kidding me.