Tsunami in Japan

[leroy]

....The media is still inducing panic, the Today show led off their show with this crap, and some rapper who is on probation for beating up Rhianna, broke a window. :facepalm: are you f'n kidding me. ...

Im surprized. I figured they would spend their time explaining how Nobama is doing a great job in Lybia or some other "important" stuff.

By the way, found this on that noted commie university website at Madison ,WI. Take a look.

INTERESTING FACTS FOR IODINE 131:

...Iodine-131 has a half-life of 8.1 days. If you start today with a 25-mg sample of iodine-131, after 8.1 days that sample will contain only 12.5 mg iodine-131. At the end of 16.2 (2 X 8.1) days, the sample will contain only 6.25 mg iodine-131. Of course, the matter in the sample does not disappear; it changes to another element, the product of the radioactive decay of iodine-131. Figure 4.3 shows the amounts of iodine-131 remaining after the passage of several half-lives, given an initial sample containing 25 mg of the isotope. ...

If the little guys drink bottled water for 9 days, looks like everything is ok. I bet Lybia wont be ok in nine days.

Link here: http://chem.wisc.edu/deptfiles/genchem/sstutorial/Text4/Tx46/tx46.html

Keep up the good work.

leroy

[Guest mikedwood]

I respect your opinion Leroy but I don't think it's all ice cream and lollipops in Japan. Those fighting the reactors have done a marvolous job for sure but I think the Japanese have no contingency plans to handle a relocation of probably well over 40 million people so they are doing some super spin on the situation to make it sound better than it actually is.

I think in time we will find out that it's super bad. I hope I'm wrong and you all can laugh at me about it but I don't think so.

I'd love to do something to help but right now my finances are horrid.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Who said it was ice cream and lollipops? Leroy is

putting out there what the foul media should be, but

that doesn't sell papers. Just remember the BP oil

spill. That disaster of "mega proportions". The short

term effects are turning out not so mega.

Whatever the Japanese damage and loos of life is,

you can bet it will be overblown by the dear media.

I'd say the Japanese are doing a fine job, and our

media as usual sucks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Garufa]

[Guest mikedwood]

On the brighter side I do predict cures for several types of cancer coming out of this in the next say 10 years.

Edited March 25, 2011 by mikedwood

[leroy]

mike:______________

RE:

... I respect your opinion Leroy but I don't think it's all ice cream and lollipops in Japan....

My posts were never intended to infer that things aren't bad in Japan. No subliminal messages were encoded into my posts. My point was to try to point out that most of what is said by the "experts" in the media is pretty much baloney and hyperbole; and to give a bit of a more insightful view concerning nuclear power, radioisotope decay, etc. It was never intended to be a cheerleading exercise nor did the evil capitalists pay me to post what ive posted. There are a bunch of folks dead with homes destroyed in Japan; that is a bad thing. You do no one a service by lying to them (...or us unaffected spectators...) concerning what has happened; nuclear, tsunami, or otherwise. You owe it to them (...and us...) to tell the truth. The truth is there is Iodine 131 around in the water (...evidently....). The other truth is that it will soon go away.

The second truth is that contrary to what the news media would have you believe; the guys at TEPCO did a job no one said could be done; they saved these units and their neighbors from more danger and suffering thru their actions at these plants. The third truth is that these plants survived mistreatment far above their design limits and still did the job they were designed to do. I've got far more confidence in the truth telling tendencies of the Japanese folks that are managing this situation than i do the "experts" sitting a continent away working overtime to slander the motives and abilities of folks fixing things.

I'm an relatively old codger, i've got more time behind me, than ahead of me; so i may not live to see my prediction come true. But remember this; you heard it from ole leroy: "...There are no other technologically viable powersources out there other than fossil (...coal, gas, and petroleum...) and nuclear. Wind and solar power (...nor any other currently known energy technology...) is not capable of powering the energy needs of this or any other country on the face of the earth."

That makes the choice pretty clear for the long-run. We will either start using more petroleum and coal to provide energy needs; we will crank up more nuclear plants using fuel reprocessed from the bomb making days, or both.

The hype, hysteria, and disinformation that you hear and see comming out now RE: the japan crisis is nothing more than a bunch of over-priveleged activist and jackasses braying to advance an agenda. That agenda is a combination of anti-capitalism and anti-energy bias; and is ultimately self-destructive. Only in a land filled with prosperity could we raise up such a bunch of mislead, bratty, buffonish, uneducated children, and allow them to be viewed as responsible commentators on world events, and even make them "public servants" actually making serious public policy. A poor society simply does not have that luxury.

In my view, the travesty going on in this country, europe, and australia is that there appears to be a goodly number of folks considering and even believing some of this bunk. Remember this, in spite of two serious nuclear "accidents" in the commercial nuclear power industry; there have been exactly zero (0) civilian fatalities; in spite of the dire predictions of the "wizened ones". Only a bunch of petulent, willfully ignorant, mush-headed, bratty children could be induced to believe that we ought to shut this source of power down and banish it from our inventory of energy options.

It is astounding to me (...i know i'm a bit slow...) that while we see the middle east turning into a revived muslum caliphate with no interest in helping or trading with the "decadent west", we see regulators here in this country stopping domestic oil production thru bureaucratic shennanigans, and trying to finish off the coal industry; we would actually consider shutting down the last viable means of energy production we have.

It is almost like "providential blindness" and the "lemmings jumping into the sea" to me.

I aint seeking to pick a spitting contest with you are anyone else here. I'm simply sayin that sooner or later some adults are going to have to consider what will really work if you want to continue to live in a relatively free and prosperous country.

Hope this gives you a bit of a different prespective on several of things, and clears up any misunderstandings that may have arisen concerning this tragic event.

I'll close by pointing out the words of the noted philosopher Voltaire that is posted on my usual signature line -- i think that it is one of the most strikingly true, erudite pronouncements ive ever encountred: "...Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities...". I believe that this one quip is the center of what is going on in western society today. In this particular case, the absurdity is that we can meet our energy needs with zero risk and that there is technology out there that can make that happen. The atrocity is that we need to throw away the technology we have and embrace the absurdity of "alternate energy sources".

leroy

Edited March 25, 2011 by leroy

[Oh Shoot]

....I'll close by pointing out the words of the noted philosopher Voltaire that is posted on my usual signature line -- i think that it is one of the most strikingly true, erudite pronouncements ive ever encountred: "...Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities...". ...

Please forgive the aside, but while this famous quote can, like all quotes, indeed be applied to whatever fits, it should be noted that Voltaire was speaking directly and pointedly about religious dogma when he made it.

- OS

[leroy]

....Please forgive the aside, but while this famous quote can, like all quotes, indeed be applied to whatever fits, it should be noted that Voltaire was speaking directly and pointedly about religious dogma when he made it. ...

- OS

Thanks for that pearl of wisdom. Makes perfect sense. Voltaire may have unknowingly spoke a "universal truth" during his dissertation on religious dogma.

Keep up the good work.

leroy

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

[leroy]

All:______________

Take the time to look at this RE: the exposure of workers to high levels of contamination in the plant : NEI Nuclear Notes: The Japanese Workers.

Here is the same info from another source: Exposures and progress at Fukushima Daiichi . I'm not trying to minimize this, but it's important to understand where it could have come from and where it is (...it's inside the plant....).

One of the problems with BWR plants (...and it's main criticism...) is that the steam that runs the turbine flows directly thru the reactor. If the fuel has been hurt (...and it may well have...), fission products can mix with that steam (...or water...) and run thru the turbine and into the condenser. This happens to a small extent in normal operation; but can get pretty bad when these serious situations arise. I would not be suprised if the TEPCO guys dont find out that this is what happened, or that water from the spent fuel pit leaked (...or was splashed...) into the areas where they are working. It's important to understand that it is inside the plant, not outside.

leroy

[Guest mikedwood]

mike:______________

RE:

My posts were never intended to infer that things aren't bad in Japan. No subliminal messages were encoded into my posts. My point was to try to point out that most of what is said by the "experts" in the media is pretty much baloney and hyperbole; and to give a bit of a more insightful view concerning nuclear power, radioisotope decay, etc. It was never intended to be a cheerleading exercise nor did the evil capitalists pay me to post what ive posted. There are a bunch of folks dead with homes destroyed in Japan; that is a bad thing. You do no one a service by lying to them (...or us unaffected spectators...) concerning what has happened; nuclear, tsunami, or otherwise. You owe it to them (...and us...) to tell the truth. The truth is there is Iodine 131 around in the water (...evidently....). The other truth is that it will soon go away.

The second truth is that contrary to what the news media would have you believe; the guys at TEPCO did a job no one said could be done; they saved these units and their neighbors from more danger and suffering thru their actions at these plants. The third truth is that these plants survived mistreatment far above their design limits and still did the job they were designed to do. I've got far more confidence in the truth telling tendencies of the Japanese folks that are managing this situation than i do the "experts" sitting a continent away working overtime to slander the motives and abilities of folks fixing things.

I'm an relatively old codger, i've got more time behind me, than ahead of me; so i may not live to see my prediction come true. But remember this; you heard it from ole leroy: "...There are no other technologically viable powersources out there other than fossil (...coal, gas, and petroleum...) and nuclear. Wind and solar power (...nor any other currently known energy technology...) is not capable of powering the energy needs of this or any other country on the face of the earth."

That makes the choice pretty clear for the long-run. We will either start using more petroleum and coal to provide energy needs; we will crank up more nuclear plants using fuel reprocessed from the bomb making days, or both.

The hype, hysteria, and disinformation that you comming out now RE: the japan crisis is nothing more than a bunch of over-priveleged activist and jackasses braying to advance an agenda. That agenda is a combination of anti-capitalism and anti-energy bias; and is ultimately self-destructive. Only in a land filled with prosperity could we raise up such a bunch of mislead, bratty, buffonish, uneducated children, and allow them to be viewed as responsible commentators on world events, and even make them "public servants" actually making serious public policy. A poor society simply does not have that luxury.

In my view, the travesty going on in this country, europe, and australia is that there appears to be a goodly number of folks considering and even believing some of this bunk. Remember this, in spite of two serious nuclear "accidents" in the commercial nuclear power industry; there have been exactly zero (0) civilian fatalities; in spite of the dire predictions of the "wizened ones". Only a bunch of petulent, willfully ignorant, mush-headed, bratty children could be induced to believe that we ought to shut this source of power down and banish it from our inventory of energy options.

It is astounding to me (...i know i'm a bit slow...) that while we see the middle east turning into a revived muslum caliphate with no interest in helping or trading with the "decadent west", we see regulators here in this country stopping domestic oil production thru bureaucratic shennanigans, and trying to finish off the coal industry; we would actually consider shutting down the last viable means of energy production we have.

It is almost like "providential blindness" and the "lemmings jumping into the sea" to me.

I aint seeking to pick a spitting contest with you are anyone else here. I'm simply sayin that sooner or later some adults are going to have to consider what will really work if you want to continue to live in a relatively free and prosperous country.

Hope this gives you a bit of a different prespective on several of things, and clears up any misunderstandings that may have arisen concerning this tragic event.

I'll close by pointing out the words of the noted philosopher Voltaire that is posted on my usual signature line -- i think that it is one of the most strikingly true, erudite pronouncements ive ever encountred: "...Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities...". I believe that this one quip is the center of what is going on in western society today. In this particular case, the absurdity is that we can meet our energy needs with zero risk and that there is technology out there that can make that happen. The atrocity is that we need to throw away the technology we have and embrace the absurdity of "alternate energy sources".

leroy

Leroy,

Sorry I'm not trying to get into a spitting contest either. My little quip would have come across different in person. (just a phrase I like more than anything else.) I'm not falling for the media hype either. If I were I think I'd be a tad more disappointed in Liz Taylor's passing than I am.

I just think the Japanese government is doing some long stretch lying to keep thier disaster more under control than out and out panic. This is going to be worse than bad but not cataclysmic in the destruction of the world kind of way. I think it will wind up putting pressure on the prices of fuel, resources and food. All of which are much more stretched than they use to be just a few years ago.

Of course the workers at the plant did an incredible job. I hope they all get millions of yen and are treated as kings for the rest of their lives. They deserve it.

I'm not against nuclear power at all. I understand sometimes things go wrong. In this case everything went wrong and worse.

And I hope upon hope that you are right and I am dead wrong.

[leroy]

Mike:________

I understand. No offense taken. I just get bent from time to time about this whole energy thing; and i despise the media. That comes out sometime as a tirade that aint really meant to be aimed at a brother shooter and opiner on current events. Sorry for the fit -- i apologize.

RE:

...I just think the Japanese government is doing some long stretch lying to keep thier disaster more under control than out and out panic. This is going to be worse than bad but not cataclysmic in the destruction of the world kind of way. I think it will wind up putting pressure on the prices of fuel, resources and food. All of which are much more stretched than they use to be just a few years ago. ...

I think you are exactly right. The Japanese (...TEPCO, the Japenese nuclear regulators, and the government at all levels...) are actively trying to keep this to a calm level. I would, indeed, agree that they are practicing a good bit of "Public Relations" here and putting the best face possible on this extremely serious situation; while folks outside the country are seeking actively to stir up controversy and engender fear in folks far away from the problem. There is no doubt in my mind that there is some pretty nasty stuff in puddles and on equipment like valves and pumps inside the plant. The good news in all this is that i believe it is localized to the plant (...exactly as it was designed to be...). I do believe that they have a pretty good handle on what emissions have come from the plant during all these events, as they can monitor them very easily. I think the jury may be out on the exact levels for the very reasons you stated.

This thing is far from over. It will take several months (...maybee years...) of hard, dangerous (...to the plant folk...) work to figure out what is broken, what is contaminated, what needs decontamination, and how to fix what is broken. The good news is that every day that passes, the fuel in the reactor calms down a bit and so does the spent fuel; along with any loose contamination (...definition: "contamination" -- radioactive material in a place where you don't want it to be....). I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find out that the spent fuel may be the culprit in this last contamination problem. There is also a good possibility that this stuff came from the reactor loop too. The TEPCO folks have said there may be some fuel damage in the reactors. That usually means that the rods that contain the fuel pellets have ruptured or leaked and let out some fission products (...this, by the way, is one of the big problems with normal plant operation, and is a large source of contamination in the plant piping systems that come in contact with water from the reactor...). That's why they dont like to vent the steam (...and hydrogen...) from the main reactor loop. My guess is that the plant is full of this stuff, and as soon as they get the lights on and systems re-started they will start a thorough decontamination of everything in the plant (...a daunting task in itself...).

I, like you (...and many others here at TGO and other places...) continue to hope and pray that this works out. It is serious business and many folks are (...and continue to be...) affected by it.

Keep up the good work.

leroy

Edited March 25, 2011 by leroy
spelling!!

[Guest mikedwood]

Leroy,

Thanks and yeah I understand. I was thinking about it earlier and I don't know if it would matter much if it were a nuke plant, oil refinary or coal fired plant. Any of those would have caused some bad, time will heal all wounds damage to the local environment after a Earthquake - Tsumani.

But, I think it's very clear that the Japanese and other industrialized countries don't intend to live in the stone age.

If I could change one thing about the media (and they grate on me as well. Many things I'd like to change but...) it would be them passing on the false perception that there should NEVER be a danger in ANYTHING.

It's a dangerous world out there and safety and security are important, but there are limits and sometime things just happen and it's bad, but the benifits out weigh the risks. I suppose it's about risks and rewards. Life without risks would yield few rewards. Then again life without power would kill many eventually in so many ways.

I heard the other day about mini nuclear plants. I kind of like that idea. But I don't like the idea of building any of this stuff with a 20 or 30 year expected life and running it over that without properly vetting it and making upgrades. And I mean that about nuclear, coal, oil, water plants and sewage treatment facilites.

Heck factories as well. I think that is why China is kicking our butts because we are using 50 year old factories and most of theirs are probably around 10 years old.

I have heard that at some of the newer Japanese plants in the US productivity is better and quality higher than thier counter parts in Japan. Partly because the factories are newer I think.

Edited March 26, 2011 by mikedwood

[Guest mikedwood]

On another thread Leroy made a post and helped me google the information of the magnatude in different parts of Japan after the 9.0 quake.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_T%C5%8Dhoku_earthquake_and_tsunami

A lot of reading in all of it but I was mainly interested in the intensity of the earthquake near the plants and also at Tokyo. Water levels from the tsunami as well.

Apparently in the plant area it was an upper 6 and apparently what that translated to shake wise:

OS and mike:________________

Check this link out here: NEI Nuclear Notes: Evening Report. The valuable stuff is here:

Remember, this stuff aint linear, so the math difference between 507 and 449 aint the over-design number; as the units are in cm/seconds squared. It is the difference of the squares (...i think!...).

Hope this helps.

leeroy

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42292926

Edited March 28, 2011 by StreetWK05

[Oh Shoot]

...Apparently in the plant area it was an upper 6 and apparently what that translated to shake wise:

Then pursuant to our discussion in the other thread, a 9 has over 60 times the energy of a 7.

Shake is one thing but the actual surface deformation that occurred at the quake source would be a whole other concept of destruction had it happened on land there. Watts Bar Dam wouldn't survive being lifted 10 feet and dropped back down below where it started. (oops, there's a nuke plant there, too).

- OS

[Guest mikedwood]

Then pursuant to our discussion in the other thread, a 9 has over 60 times the energy of a 7.

Shake is one thing but the actual surface deformation that occurred at the quake source would be a whole other concept of destruction had it happened on land there. Watts Bar Dam wouldn't survive being lifted 10 feet and dropped back down below where it started. (oops, there's a nuke plant there, too).

- OS

Yep, looks like you are right about that. I thought until yesterday that the level at the plant had to be above a 7.5 maybe even an 8. I was wrong in my guess but had no other information.

From what I read yesterday many seismologists did not believe a 9.0 was possible out of that fault. A 8.5 perhaps but not a 9.0.

That fault is still giving off 4's 5's and 6's, wonder if it's going to go on for a few more days or years or have another big one soon.

Looks like to me the tsunami did most of the damage to the plant before the explosions. And it never did appear to me as if they were acting like the explosions did that much damage even thought they seemed to have wrecked the structure on unit 3.

What the heck are those containment vessels made of to hold for this long? They are saying the one at unit 2 or 3 might be cracked but it's certainly taken awhile.

Reading around today it seems that it's getting worse for unit 2 and/or 3. Much worse.

I wonder if they had been able to start the backup generators or had a backup to the backup if it would have turned out OK? There will be a lot learned from this, but will they (anyone) build any new plants with that knowledge? I'd certainly hate to see no new plants built and keep the old ons running under a grandfather for years past their prime.

[leroy]

Mike, OS, and all:_______________

Here's a crack at answering some of the questions:

Mikes question here:

....Looks like to me the tsunami did most of the damage to the plant before the explosions. And it never did appear to me as if they were acting like the explosions did that much damage even thought they seemed to have wrecked the structure on unit 3. ...

What did the "most damage"? The tsunami. As i remember they have revised the tsunami height upward to about 14 meters. The seawalls around the plant were about 6 or so meters. That means eight or so meters of water came over the wall. Thats about 25 or 26 feet high above the wall. I suspect this flooded everyting and swept all the transformer equipment and switchward stuff away. That did away with outside power. The diesel generators start up on loss of plant power and they evidently fired up when the earthquake hit. My guess is that the tsunami took them out due to flooding or damage to the fuel tanks. That shut them down.

RE: The explosions. Under normal plant operation there is a gizmo called a "recombiner" that recombines the hydrogen and oxygen generated in the reactor and turns it back to cooling water to prevent just the kind of explosion that happened here. As i remember, the neutrons in the reactor make the cooling water dissassociate into hydrogen and oxygen as a normal part of reactor operation. The recombiner fixes that problem and "recombines" the two elements making them non-explosive. When the plant lost power, the "recombiner" shut down with everything else. The gasses in the reactor keep building up with no "recombiner" to fix the problem. The result is the explosion.

RE: The question about the building damage due to the explosions. The explosions probably could not (...and did not...) damage the "real important" part of the building. The fuel pools and the areas around the steel containment vessel. The explosion just blew out the upper panels on the top of the reactor building and probably damaged the refueling crane. That's why they were'nt too concerned about the building.

RE: The containment systems: This question:

...What the heck are those containment vessels made of to hold for this long? They are saying the one at unit 2 or 3 might be cracked but it's certainly taken ....

The containment is basically in three sections. The first is the structure called the reactor pressure vessel. They are round with hemispherical ends and are on the order of 5 or so inches thick. Built of the best high strength steel. Cladded with stainless steel on the inside. It holds the fuel bundles in place in the reactor and is the "tea pot" thru which the water is circulated to make steam for the turbine and cool the fuel after shutdown.

The reactor pressure vessel is housed in a second containment (...along with piping, pumps, etc...). This is called the "containment vessel" This vessel looks like an upside down lightbulb (....look thru the old links, there are pictures, or just google "mark one containment" and you can probably find a picture...). This vessel is all steel (...again, the best high strength steel...) and is on the order of 1 1/2 to 2 inches thick. It contains an equipment airlock for access to get tools, fuel, parts, etc in thru. It also has several manways to get people in to access the reactor and work on equipment when the plant is off line.

Connected with the containment vessel is a third structure that looks like a doughnut. It is made out of the same stuff as the containment vessel. It looks like a doughnut. It is called a "torus" or "suppression chamber". The arrangement of the torus with respect to the containment vessel kinda looks like a lightbulb setting above a doughnut with several heavy pipes connecting the two structures. The purpose of the torus is to condense (...suppress...) the reactor system steam if the unit trips under load. Steam from the reactor is diverted thru a set of valves and dumps into cool water in the torus and that takes the energy from the steam and condenses it. As you can imagine, that's a helluva operatrion. Lots of powerful jet forces and hammering during this operation. There are those (...and im inclined to believe them...) that believe that the rattling and rumbling they are hearing is from piping and valves torn loose during the continuous steam dump into the torus as the reactor cools down. I suspect you can also get hydrogen buildup here too, and there may have been an explosion withing the torus.

I'm inclined to believe that the torus contained any explosion, and that the increased radioactivity in water found in the plant is comming from damaged instrument lines or bypass lines damaged in the quake. They are small in relation to the main steam and main coolant lines and pose no danger to overall loss of coolant; but they can dump quite a bit of water over time (...think garden hose size and smaller lines here...).

The third feature of the reactor containment is the concrete building structure itself. Built "hell of stout" with tons of steel reinforcement and high strength concrete. It completely surrounds and encases the containment vessel and torus.

Picture link from here: http://winterpatriot.com/files/images/GE%20Mk1%20Containment.jpg

RE: The generators. If they could have kept the diesel generators running none of this would have likely happened. The diesel-generator system is the backup to the loss of outside power from the transmission line grid. That loss of power from outside plus the d-g sets being damaged basically caused this confligration.

Hope this answers a few questions and explains things a bit.

leroy

Edited March 28, 2011 by leroy
added picture

[Lumber_Jack]

Leroy you have been a fountain of information, with documentation to back it up. I applaud you sir, for informing those of us who need it (badly)

[Oh Shoot]

...From what I read yesterday many seismologists did not believe a 9.0 was possible out of that fault. A 8.5 perhaps but not a 9.0....

Even 8+ was thought to be almost astronomical odds.

Problem is, when dealing with stuff that has half life of death 5-10 times longer than all recorded human history, long odds are still riskier than in most other endeavors.

The nuclear waste storage problem is the real crux of the problem, worse than even the occasional problem like in Japan as far as possible number of us affected. It's scattered all over the US, and has to be contained with constant vigilance. And so far, centralized storage hasn't happened, even after billions of bucks and a decade of work thrown into Yucca Mountain. And it's debatable as to what's worse, a centralized location that could be compromised, or hundreds of individual locations that could be. Same problem world wide, too. This is the real concern of most "anti-nuke" folks.

It's just rather arrogant to think we can safely contain things for 30,000 years and more when we've just even had a country for a couple hundred, and nuclear capability for 65. The only real solution to dealing with the waste is to treat it on nuclear level to change it into something benign. Really surprised that has been beyond our science so far.

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

Leroy you have been a fountain of information, with documentation to back it up. I applaud you sir, for informing those of us who need it (badly)

Yep, thanks for all the pithy info on this stuff, Leroy.

- OS

[Guest adolf.oliver.bush]

Just sayin'

[G27]

[Garufa]

That reminds me...I'm still pissed about the damnyankes forcing us back into their country via invasion, theft and terrorism.

[leroy]

Mike, OS, Lumber_ and all:________________

Thanks for the kindness. I spent several years working on this stuff in both construction and plant maintenence. Got to work on some really interesting stuff.

OS hit the real problem with nuclear power dead on the head here:

...The nuclear waste storage problem is the real crux of the problem, worse than even the occasional problem like in Japan as far as possible number of us affected. It's scattered all over the US, and has to be contained with constant vigilance. And so far, centralized storage hasn't happened, even after billions of bucks and a decade of work thrown into Yucca Mountain. ...

The problem with the radwaste is the public perception as much as the technical "what to do". Folks are simply afraid of this stuff. That makes it a real political football.

The guys at ORNL did a bunch of work on vitrification (...turning to glass...) of radwaste several years ago. There were also a bunch of tests of "in place vitrification" conducted if i remember right. I wonder how they turned out?

Thanks again

leroy