Fox 17 and carry in bars laws

[rstandley]

WTF! Fox 17 in Nashville is running a story about a mugging inside a bar in Hermitage. A man was pistol whipped in the restroom and robbed. Fox 17 is turning the story about how this will effect the guns in bars laws. These people are dumb, this has no effect other than if the person that was mugged had a gun, he may have been able to stop his mugging. Fox 17 needs many e-mails ripping them on this story. \The bar was posted NO GUNS, That did not stop the robbers from mugging this poor man. I think our point is made.

[RobertNashville]

Where is this story located? Can you provide a like to the video and/or print version of what you are talking about?

I was looking on their website and the story there about the incident is pretty matter-of-fact; no editorial comment at all. Maybe they've already received enough complaints that they already eliminated the extraneous comments???

[Guest Broomhead]

Um...Do you have a link?

I didn't find any videos on the guns in bars part, all I found was this:

WZTV FOX 17 :: Newsroom - Top Stories - Man suffers fractured skull after being pistol whipped in bar

It didn't mention anything about any law changes or the restaurant carry law or anything.

[Guest tnmom2amk]

Here is the official statement from the bar owner...

https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-rusty-nail/offical-statement-re-incident-on-3102011/10150104153937027

In light of the incident that occurred at The Rusty Nail early on March 10th, we would like to make the following statement:

We the ownership and staff at The Rusty Nail are very sorry that this incident happened at our establishment. We have taken many steps to provide a safe, clean and fun environment for our patrons. It is clearly posted that we do not allow weapons of any kind on the premises, however we cannot control the behavior of criminals and this was clearly a criminal act.

We want our customers to know that we will make a renewed effort to identify and stop this kind of situation in the future. We would also like to ask our loyal and regular customers for your help. Please keep the manager and staff informed of any behavior that appears to be a threat to the safety of yourself or others.

While this is an isolated incident, we are very concerned with the current law that allows handguns to be carried into any business. We feel this law needs to be re-evaluated.

Dan Shelton

President of Leader Marketing LLC

Co-Owner of The Rusty Nail

[daddyo]

Still waiting for all those shootouts in bars to happen.

[rstandley]

Most of it happen during the Tennessee mornings show with most of the statements made by the reporter on site. The reporter made several statements on how this may cause the law to be looked at again. The reporter and the bar owner are in left field. A thug did the deed, not a HCP holder. I better stop before I get to worked up.

[Oh Shoot]

....While this is an isolated incident, we are very concerned with the current law that allows handguns to be carried into any business. We feel this law needs to be re-evaluated.

Dan Shelton

President of Leader Marketing LLC

Co-Owner of The Rusty Nail

Gee, what a unique and logical point of view. This man is a deep thinker.

- OS

[Guest friesepferd]

ugh. this stuff makes me sick.

so the bar was posted? then gee buddy, there WAS a law keeping this guy out of your bar. It didn't work (surprise surprise)

[Guest RevScottie]

Based on the owners quote:

"We would also like to ask our loyal and regular customers for your help. Please keep the manager and staff informed of any behavior that appears to be a threat to the safety of yourself or others."

Everyone needs to let the owner know that the biggest threat is his own stupid posting that prevents law abiding citizens from protecting themselves.

[Guest clownsdd]

They have cut the facebutt link. Another place to stay out of and let them know you are doing it and why.

[vontar]

What a load of Crap.

sarcasm on

I am so glad to see that POSTING that bar stopped that criminal from pistol whipping and robbing an unarmed customer in the restroom of the Rusty Nail. I feel so much safer now that I see those signs.

While this is an isolated incident, we are very concerned with the current law that allows handguns to be carried into any business. We feel this law needs to be re-evaluated.

Dan Shelton

President of Leader Marketing LLC

Co-Owner of The Rusty Nail

Wait, I am sorry I misread the whole dam story, that posting sign did not stop a criminal,

BTW, Last week, I carried for my first time in a pub. Also, I did not have a drink of any alcohol while in said pub. I have a great meal

********

Edit

yup, tnmom2amk glad you copied that facebook post, it has been removed.

Edited March 11, 2011 by vontar

[eapking]

Everyone needs to let the owner know that the biggest threat is his own stupid posting that prevents law abiding citizens from protecting themselves.

This!!!

What a shocker that the criminal ignored the posting!!! I can't believe it...a dishonest criminal !!!

[vontar]

Let me add this, the person that commented this crime, just a guess, is probably not a first time offender. My guess this person probably legally could not own a gun. So even if guns were not allowed in any bars, pretty sure it would not have stopped this guy.

[Fallguy]

I just don't understand how people think. With the posting...it is just as much against the law as it was before the change....so what exactly is the guy wanting?

....and if it wasn't a gun he could have hit him with just about anything else....

A single individuals ignorance doesn't bother me as much as when the infect others with it that either aren't smart enough and/or informed enough to have a position of their own.

[vontar]

A single individuals ignorance doesn't bother me as much as when the infect others with it that either aren't smart enough and/or informed enough to have a position of their own.

That is the actually zombie infection. As we know Hollywood zombies don't actually exist, however one person says someone and others follow with out thinking for for themselves. They are then in a sense turned into a zombie for the cause.

[Guest Oaklands]

These people never cease to amaze me. I guess they think criminals would never, EVER dream of doing the opposite of what their sign said. The guy ought to sue the owners, stating they did not have adequate security when denying law abiding citizens the right to carry their own weapon to defend themselves. If you are not going to let people carry which is their right in this state, then be prepared to protect them.

[vontar]

These people never cease to amaze me. I guess they think criminals would never, EVER dream of doing the opposite of what their sign said. The guy ought to sue the owners, stating they did not have adequate security when denying law abiding citizens the right to carry their own weapon to defend themselves. If you are not going to let people carry which is their right in this state, then be prepared to protect them.

The only thing, we have to remember that anyone that drinks alcohol at a bar/pub may not be armed even if it is not posted. So if the victim was drinking, the law had him disarmed.

[DavidD]

Guys, its the Rusty Nail for Pete's Sake. I wouldn't go into that joint unless I was armed!

[tnhawk]

Here is the official statement from the bar owner...

https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-rusty-nail/offical-statement-re-incident-on-3102011/10150104153937027

In light of the incident that occurred at The Rusty Nail early on March 10th, we would like to make the following statement:

We the ownership and staff at The Rusty Nail are very sorry that this incident happened at our establishment. We have taken many steps to provide a safe, clean and fun environment for our patrons. It is clearly posted that we do not allow weapons of any kind on the premises, however we cannot control the behavior of criminals and this was clearly a criminal act.

We want our customers to know that we will make a renewed effort to identify and stop this kind of situation in the future. We would also like to ask our loyal and regular customers for your help. Please keep the manager and staff informed of any behavior that appears to be a threat to the safety of yourself or others.

While this is an isolated incident, we are very concerned with the current law that allows handguns to be carried into any business. We feel this law needs to be re-evaluated.

Dan Shelton

President of Leader Marketing LLC

Co-Owner of The Rusty Nail

Daniel T. Shelton - info@therustynailbar.com

Edited March 11, 2011 by tnhawk

[Guest friesepferd]

email sent

[tnhawk]

I received an email from Daniel Shelton explaining that he hopes I understand his position. "We have a lot of liability as it is already" He's more concerned about a citizen "packing a lethal weapon" than those who drive lethal vehicles after drinking at his business. "I can't be responsible for criminals... They are everywhere among us."

[Worriedman]

I too received a reply from Mr. Shelton:

My original e-mail:

To the attention of Daniel T. Shelton,

Mr. Shelton,

I find your stated comment "We want our customers to know that we will make a renewed effort to identify and stop this kind of situation in the future. We would also like to ask our loyal and regular customers for your help. Please keep the manager and staff informed of any behavior that appears to be a threat to the safety of yourself or others.

While this is an isolated incident, we are very concerned with the current law that allows handguns to be carried into any business. We feel this law needs to be re-evaluated." very confusing.

Correct me if I am wrong in my understanding that your business is, and was "Posted" against the Right of Handgun Carry Permit holders to bear a weapon legally in your establishment.

If in fact your establishment was posted, (as I am sure it was), did the perpetrator not violate the law upon his entry being armed. What you have done by "Posting" your establishment is to create a "Gun Free Zone" and position your clientele in a stress free environment for criminal activity. By limiting their ability to provide for their own safety and security as prescribed by the Legislature of our State, I would suggest that you have agreed to provide for that, as your mandate to deny the Constitutional Rights assigned by the Legislature and the Constitution of Tennessee to the People has been supplanted by your business decisions.

His response received yesterday, Sunday March 27, 2011.

I understand the law completely, I am a gun owner and I have a carry permit and have had one for over 20 years. The problem is, as I see it. Many people do not understand the law, they think that the state law overrides the business owner's sign and they carry their firearms into our establishment. Most of them have good intentions and don't intend to drink, until they run into their friends who buy them a drink or a shot. Before you know it... A perfectly legal, law abiding citizen, is impaired and packing a lethal weapon. We have had situations in the recent past where, our cocktail waitresses, have picked up guns off the floor when they fell out of (law abiding citizens pockets or purses).... I want it to be a crime to carry weapons into a drinking establishment. We don't want to introduce lethal weapons into an already hard to manage situation. We have a lot of liability as it is already. I respect all gun owner's rights and don't want to diminish them in any way. However, I have been exposed to this environment for a very long time and, just like people that drink and drive... They didn't intend to hurt anyone... But thousands of people get killed every year. I can't be responsible for criminals.. They are everywhere among us.. That is why we have security people in our establishment (more now than in the past). I hope that even if you don't agree with our position, that you understand it.

Daniel Shelton

I suppose Mr. Shelton will be lobbying to remove the ability of Business Owners to carry while on their property,a s well as having the ability to assign specific individuals the ability to carry as named "persons responsible for Security".

Nasty old guns causing all that trouble.

[Oh Shoot]

From your email to Shelton:

"Correct me if I am wrong in my understanding that your business is, and was "Posted" against the Right of Handgun Carry Permit holders to bear a weapon legally in your establishment. If in fact your establishment was posted, (as I am sure it was), did the perpetrator not violate the law upon his entry being armed."

Well, the ironic answer to that is no. It's only against the law for a permit holder to carry past a sign. A non-permit holder is already in violation of the law by carrying and faces no additional charge by carrying in a posted business.

- OS

[Mike.357]

were there carry permits in TN before 1991?

sorry to be slightly OT, but the guy who owns that bar said he has had a permit for over 20 years

[Worriedman]

Well, the ironic answer to that is no. It's only against the law for a permit holder to carry past a sign. A non-permit holder is already in violation of the law by carrying and faces no additional charge by carrying in a posted business.

- OS

Was giving him the benefit of the doubt that it might have been a permit holder at the time of my original e-mail. But, my point is, that the perp WAS in violation of the law, if he in fact had a permit or not, as the contention was that the establishment was posted, and either status being in place, permit or not, it was illegal for the weapon to be carried into the establishment, realizing that there would be no extra charge for the non-permit holder outside of going armed to carry past a sign.