Idiot Question Time

[dickenscpa]

I've been loading those plated Raniers in 230g for my 1911 for a bit. Last 500 rnds have been those. Ran out of bullets and shot my last loads at the range Saturday and immediate went to my LGS for more bullets.

It was suggested I try these lead bullets dipped in something. I think they're Precision? They are 230g RFP. Immediately I realized that my OAL would have to significantly shrink from 1.27 down to 1.22 just to fit flush for the "plunk" test.

I made a dummy rnd at 1.20 (I'd throw the bullets away before going any lower) and it behaved just like the 1.22. They will go "plunk" going in, but will not fall out when I turn the barrel upside down. I dropped the projectile only, no shorter OAL than that, and I still had to tap it a bit for it to fall out.

I made 9 rnds and the bullet's diameter range from .450-.451. I seated to an OAL of 1.22 and crimped all 9 to .471.

Are these bullets too fat to go thru my barrel and gonna blow me up? Maybe they all do this, I just know the previous bullets I've loaded always fall out when I turn the barrel upside down. I hand cycled them thru my gun twice and had no jams, FTE and absolutely no bullet setback. Just a bit concerned to shoot them.

Brad

[LngRngShtr]

Depending on what they are coated with they may stick during a drop check lube or lead will do this plated/jacketed will not..

you would notice if you put each of these projectiles on the bench unloaded that the RFP or sometimes called TC truncated cone will be about as short as the difference in your OAL so your internal volume should be similar..

my only concern would be powder charge levels of plated vs. coated lead but without seeing what the "coated" means....and what you are shooting them out of.

as long as your not maxed out on powder charge you should be ok I used to shoot Raniers and lead out of my 10mm with the same powder charge but my lead supplier made them very hard cast softer lead would have had to be worked up to...

Just remember you do have variables to contend with you may want to load a few and work up to your ideal load as a precaution, beats having a pressure spike due to lead vs. plated then again it may not be a problem for your powder charge/gun combination but why chance it say 5 each from minimum charge up to where everything is "happy"

keep notes and stay safe

John

Edited March 8, 2011 by LngRngShtr

[dickenscpa]

Thank you for the reply, I didn't think about the coating being sticky. Are all bullets technically bigger than the barrel and shrink to fit upon being fired? Stupid question I know.

Since I was using lead data on my plated bullets, I used lead data as a starting point for these. I was loading the 230g Raniers at 5.2g of Win231 for an OAL of 1.270. Dropped my charge down to 5.0g when I used an OAL of 1.255. I'm shooting from a 1911 5" brl. My gun did not like the 1.255 like the factory stuff I had bought. I think Ranier's pointy nose caused jams at that OAL. 1.270 fed and shot like butter.

Since I had to drop my OAL on these new lead bullets to 1.22, I dropped my charge down to 4.6g just to be safe. The very last bullet on this link is mine, 230g RNF.

Precision Bullets Online

'Preciate your help!

Brad

[LngRngShtr]

Ah,.. the black bullets... my .38 Super loves them my .45 likes the 5.7 of 231 with a 200gr. LSWC the "Mickey Fowler" load.. DO NOT put this load behind a 230

OK when you crimp you do shrink the dia.a bit but only where the casing ends then when fired they ( bullets) are grabbed by the rifling which is less than bore diameter and the pressure and heat flare the base and to a degree the rest of the bullet to a tight fit sealing in propellant gasses.

when I use a new projectile I pull out a BALL round I have and selecting the Round nose seating plug set the die using the BALL round..this gives me an approx. outline to use.... then I set the round behind the BALL round and look at the 2 profiles no new projectile should be outside the BALL profile then I swap out the seating plug for the one matching the projectile say flat for that LSWC and load a few dummies... hand cycle and if successful load 100 or so and fire check them then one of those unused dummies is marked and stored for later reference..

The 1911 was designed for a 230 gr. RN BALL round at 855 FPS. .so the logic is that if it is profiled like it it any new projectile should feed ,..sometimes I will admit it does need some adjusting but for the most part it works...just adjust powder levels, as you have,to adjust for your combustion chamber and go from there...

John

[Guest friesepferd]

It should push through fine. If you are that worried about em getting stuck, just make sure they came out the end before firing the next one for a few times.

In general though yes, a bullet can be a smidge bigger than the barrel.

[dickenscpa]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate your feedback. Really thankful for this site. Hopefully I help others when something comes up that I know about.

I wish I had one or two of the Raniers left. If I could have seen they wouldn't fir thru a barrel, yet I knew they shot thru it, I'd felt better. LOL!

Thanks again!

Brad

[glockster157]

For years now I have been a big fan of WW 231. My normal loads are 6.0 Grains for 185 JHP's, 5.6 grains for 200 Grain LSWC's or plates SWC's and 5.2 for any 225/230 grain bullet. I have shot these loads in numerous different 45's including Glocks and HK's with their polygonal rifling(though I limit the lead loads to just a few and clean thoroughly after for those barrels)....I have never had an issue. I have had issues with lead bullets being oversized for some pistols with tight chambers. I have been using a Lee Carbide factory sizer die to fix any such situation and it works well. However, since all you are doing is swaging the bullet down in the process, I do it as only a temp fix and find different components that will work without the Lee Factory Die as I don't want undersized lead bullets going down my barrel for many reasons.

As to these coated bullets, I have not used these but I have used others like them in the past with varied success. I think the coating is some kind of either Teflon or Nylon. If you have a bullet puller, load a couple normal and pull the bullets. If the coating holds up then they should work about as good as any lead. The ones I tried had lots of exposed lead after being pulled and since they were swaged from pure lead, they also left some lead in the barrel. I have found a properly loaded hard cast bullet, that is the right size for a barrel and the right hardness for the load will not lead at all and you can shoot all day without a problem. Most leading occurs from soft bullets being pushed to hard or , surprise, surprise, hard bullets being pushed to softly. Gas cutting can cause worse leading than velocity.

[dickenscpa]

For years now I have been a big fan of WW 231. My normal loads are 6.0 Grains for 185 JHP's, 5.6 grains for 200 Grain LSWC's or plates SWC's and 5.2 for any 225/230 grain bullet. I have shot these loads in numerous different 45's including Glocks and HK's with their polygonal rifling(though I limit the lead loads to just a few and clean thoroughly after for those barrels)....I have never had an issue. I have had issues with lead bullets being oversized for some pistols with tight chambers. I have been using a Lee Carbide factory sizer die to fix any such situation and it works well. However, since all you are doing is swaging the bullet down in the process, I do it as only a temp fix and find different components that will work without the Lee Factory Die as I don't want undersized lead bullets going down my barrel for many reasons.

As to these coated bullets, I have not used these but I have used others like them in the past with varied success. I think the coating is some kind of either Teflon or Nylon. If you have a bullet puller, load a couple normal and pull the bullets. If the coating holds up then they should work about as good as any lead. The ones I tried had lots of exposed lead after being pulled and since they were swaged from pure lead, they also left some lead in the barrel. I have found a properly loaded hard cast bullet, that is the right size for a barrel and the right hardness for the load will not lead at all and you can shoot all day without a problem. Most leading occurs from soft bullets being pushed to hard or , surprise, surprise, hard bullets being pushed to softly. Gas cutting can cause worse leading than velocity.

I did have to pull those first 8 or 9 I made because they were too long. I will have to say the coating was completely intact. The base of the projectile was ever so slightly reshaped from my crimp. Thru trial and error I expand my cases minimally to accept the bullet and in turn making crimping to .471 a minimal effort.

I guess the basis of my fear was that grabbing a bullet from the box and placing it in the barrel was to big to pass thru the barrel. This messed with my head a bit. Even though I knew the projectiles should be .451 or .452 and all that I test measured were .450-.451, it messed with my head. I knew my powder load was on the safe side. Just couldn't figure out what happened in the firing process that shrank that bullet and kept it from lodging about 2.5" in a 5" barrel.

I guess it's one of those I've been shooting a long time (factory ammo) but fairly new to reloading. So, every little detail (not blowing up) has been heightened to the nth degree in my little analytical mind. I never had a bullet puller before reloading so I never pulled apart a factory round and noticed that an unfired projectile is too big to slip thru the barrel. I just could not wrap my head around that.

I'm very thankful to have you guys to lean on. 'Preciate it big time!

Brad

[gregintenn]

I did have to pull those first 8 or 9 I made because they were too long. I will have to say the coating was completely intact. The base of the projectile was ever so slightly reshaped from my crimp. Thru trial and error I expand my cases minimally to accept the bullet and in turn making crimping to .471 a minimal effort.

I guess the basis of my fear was that grabbing a bullet from the box and placing it in the barrel was to big to pass thru the barrel. This messed with my head a bit. Even though I knew the projectiles should be .451 or .452 and all that I test measured were .450-.451, it messed with my head. I knew my powder load was on the safe side. Just couldn't figure out what happened in the firing process that shrank that bullet and kept it from lodging about 2.5" in a 5" barrel.

I guess it's one of those I've been shooting a long time (factory ammo) but fairly new to reloading. So, every little detail (not blowing up) has been heightened to the nth degree in my little analytical mind. I never had a bullet puller before reloading so I never pulled apart a factory round and noticed that an unfired projectile is too big to slip thru the barrel. I just could not wrap my head around that.

I'm very thankful to have you guys to lean on. 'Preciate it big time!

Brad

You could have just seated the bullets deeper instead of pulling them. As for the bullet dia., the bullet being larger than the bore causes it to make a seal as it's going down the bore, thereby letting the pressure from the gasses made by the burning powder push the bullet faster. As the bullets are made frem lead, copper, or other relatively soft substances, they will obturate, or reshape under pressure to fit whatever they are going through. This is why it's hard to seat a muzzleloader bullet; you are forming the bullet as you are pushing it down the bore.