Personal Protection for delivery persons

[Sky King]

If I understand correctly, the deadline for filing new bills is past. So I wonder if any of the other proposed legislation could offer an amendment to cover persons employed as delivery persons.

Many of you may have heard of the two recent killings of pizza delivery persons in the Memphis area, (imagine that). The last was a Papa Johns delivery person in his 50's who had been employed by Papa Johns for several years.

Most of have accepted and probably agree that if you are in a vehicle OWNED by your employer, they can restrict your carrying a weapon. However most such situations, FedEx, UPS, florists ect. do not involve cash transactions such as pizza or other food service deliveries. Thus would not have the same attraction to criminals looking for cash.

Most, if not all pizza delivery persons I have seen, utilize their own personal vehicle with just a sign or flag attached to identify the company. These persons are often sent into dangerous neighborhoods at odd hours placing them in definate danger. I have heard that these companies do not allow their drivers to carry firearms while performing their duties thus denying them the ability to defend themselves when confronted by an assailant who is willing to kill them for a few bucks, as shown here in Memphis last week.

The companies have said in the reports that they try to identify neighborhoods and addresses using crime tracking data and restrict delivery to those areas but again, last week shows that not to always be successful.

I should think we should have protection for these folks who are just trying to make a living to allow them, if they meet the usual requirements for carrying, to be able to carry a weapon in their personal vehicle or being used for their employers business or on their person while making these deliveries.

Personally, I probably would anyway. The worst they can do is fire me. My life isn't worth a few bucks or somebodys lousey pizza.

[JayC]

Don't need a law, it's already legal to carry a firearm in your own vehicle if you have a HCP. So pizza delivery drivers have 2 choices, 1. carry and risk being firedd if found out. 2. Don't work in a high risk job where they prevent you from carrying in the first place.

We don't need another law to solve this 'problem'.

[mikegideon]

It's nice to follow the rules, but some rules are really stupid. Like JayC said, you may run a small risk of being fired (by people that don't care about your safety). I know what I would do in your shoes, but can't really advise you.

[Fallguy]

I have to agree with the two above.

You may have noticed how much trouble it is just getting the "parking lot" bill passed. And that bill would only force employers to allow it in a locked vehicle, let alone on the anyones person.

I would either lawfully carry and not worry about company rules or find another job. Of course I admit that it is much easier for me to say that at my age while having a good job than it would be in my 20s and needing money.

[memphisjim]

i say carry but realize it will still be tough

you are carrying pizza with people planning to get you

[Sky King]

I certainly understand that with a HCP I can keep a weapon in my personal car. And like I said, if it were me, I would carry it anyway and if they wanted to fire me, let them fire me. It isn't worth a few bucks or somebody's pizza. But like Fallguy said, I have a good job and at my age, if I were to get a job like that, it probably would just to stay busy in my retirement or just to earn beer money. It certainly wouldn't be a needed job. But not everybody is in that same boat. Some people are trying to earn a living while going to college and can't be too choosey if the hours fit into their school schedule. For what ever reason, in this economy, jobs are not growing on trees. And quite personally, I have had that old "if you don't like the rules, find a new job" argument thrown at me more times than I care to count when debating the parking lot law and personally I am a bit surprised to hear it from this group. It is an easy "gauntlet" to throw down when you know it can't be picked up. For some people quitting a job to hunt for another one is not an option for a variety of reasons.

If I were driving around with a Papa John's sign on my car, you can bet the handgun will not just be in my car, it will be ON me. If nothing ever happens, nobody is the wiser. BUT, if I need it, well let the chips fall where they may but I would like to think that if it came down to that, I wouldn't loose my job just because I defended my life.

I don't think we NEED half the laws we have now. If our Constitution was honored as it should be, a lot of things would be different. And if the large corporations were half as concerned for their employees as they are about being sued by the family of some crack head that got shot and killed attempting to rob a guy trying to make an honest living over a few bucks for his next rock, we wouldn't need a law for that either.

[mikegideon]

The good news is that society is slowly but surely recognizing the need for personal self defense. The enemies of that are getting weaker by the year.

[Dolomite_supafly]

It is better to live to find another job than be killed because you don't want to risk being fired.

Most times the person making these policies has never had to work in a position in which their lives may be in danger so they do not understand.

I worked as a delivery person for two days before I quit over being told I couldn't have ANY weapons in my car while on the clock. Knowing that the delivery drivers were getting robbed weekly I wasn't going to leave myself defenseless and I quit the second day. Most of the drivers had been robbed and actually acted like it was some sort of crazy initiation. This was in Alabama a long time ago but even though I no longer work I will never be left defenseless.

Dolomite

[enfield]

Delivering pizza can be a dangerous job, and just because you're armed doesn't mean you'll survive a robbery.

Picture is of Fred Mager, former Weapons Platoon leader, 28th Inf Reg, 1ID, who was killed delivering pizza in Detroit, 3 June 2006.

He survived his 1st robbery (robber didn't) but it didn't work out so well the 2nd time.

Picture taken 16 October 1967.

Edited March 7, 2011 by enfield

[DaveTN]

If I understand correctly, the deadline for filing new bills is past. So I wonder if any of the other proposed legislation could offer an amendment to cover persons employed as delivery persons.

Many of you may have heard of the two recent killings of pizza delivery persons in the Memphis area, (imagine that). The last was a Papa Johns delivery person in his 50's who had been employed by Papa Johns for several years.

Most of have accepted and probably agree that if you are in a vehicle OWNED by your employer, they can restrict your carrying a weapon. However most such situations, FedEx, UPS, florists ect. do not involve cash transactions such as pizza or other food service deliveries. Thus would not have the same attraction to criminals looking for cash.

Most, if not all pizza delivery persons I have seen, utilize their own personal vehicle with just a sign or flag attached to identify the company. These persons are often sent into dangerous neighborhoods at odd hours placing them in definate danger. I have heard that these companies do not allow their drivers to carry firearms while performing their duties thus denying them the ability to defend themselves when confronted by an assailant who is willing to kill them for a few bucks, as shown here in Memphis last week.

The companies have said in the reports that they try to identify neighborhoods and addresses using crime tracking data and restrict delivery to those areas but again, last week shows that not to always be successful.

I should think we should have protection for these folks who are just trying to make a living to allow them, if they meet the usual requirements for carrying, to be able to carry a weapon in their personal vehicle or being used for their employers business or on their person while making these deliveries.

Personally, I probably would anyway. The worst they can do is fire me. My life isn't worth a few bucks or somebodys lousey pizza.

I certainly understand that with a HCP I can keep a weapon in my personal car. And like I said, if it were me, I would carry it anyway and if they wanted to fire me, let them fire me. It isn't worth a few bucks or somebody's pizza. But like Fallguy said, I have a good job and at my age, if I were to get a job like that, it probably would just to stay busy in my retirement or just to earn beer money. It certainly wouldn't be a needed job. But not everybody is in that same boat. Some people are trying to earn a living while going to college and can't be too choosey if the hours fit into their school schedule. For what ever reason, in this economy, jobs are not growing on trees. And quite personally, I have had that old "if you don't like the rules, find a new job" argument thrown at me more times than I care to count when debating the parking lot law and personally I am a bit surprised to hear it from this group. It is an easy "gauntlet" to throw down when you know it can't be picked up. For some people quitting a job to hunt for another one is not an option for a variety of reasons.

If I were driving around with a Papa John's sign on my car, you can bet the handgun will not just be in my car, it will be ON me. If nothing ever happens, nobody is the wiser. BUT, if I need it, well let the chips fall where they may but I would like to think that if it came down to that, I wouldn't loose my job just because I defended my life.

I don't think we NEED half the laws we have now. If our Constitution was honored as it should be, a lot of things would be different. And if the large corporations were half as concerned for their employees as they are about being sued by the family of some crack head that got shot and killed attempting to rob a guy trying to make an honest living over a few bucks for his next rock, we wouldn't need a law for that either.

You make very good points. There are a couple of problems.

The first problem is that the law would need to remove the civil liability for the companies. An innocent bystander gets shot and everyone agrees that they deserve a payday. Well obviously the pizza delivery guy and the dirt bag don’t have any money. That leaves the “Deep Pocketsâ€; the businessâ€. These types of cases are settled out of court, a business should not have to hire a lawyer and go through that.

The second problem is that the state of Tennessee has seen fit to make it a crime to carry a gun. Until that changes there aren’t going to be any laws forcing any businesses to allow carry anywhere. Not that will hold up in court anyway.

Come on guys…. You can’t force a business to comply with the “right to bear arms†when your state won’t. Forcing a business to allow entry to those who carry, forcing businesses to allow guns in parking lots, forcing businesses to allow carry on the job…. You might be able to do that when it’s a right recognized under the Constitution, but you can’t do it when it’s a privilege that a special group purchases from the state.

I support what you are saying, but I want the state brought into compliance first.