Pitiful portrait

[G27]

This was actually an idea being tossed out by Indiana governor Mitch Daniels. If you can think of any ways to fix the system, please feel free to speak up.

Umm, ok, what do I care about the marxist ideas of another state's governor?

My idea? Tell everyone over age 40 "you aren't going to see a dime" and raise the age where one receives benefits to at least 70.

Work to end the program, that's the solution. More government is not the answer.

The answer is NOT penalizing, even more than the system already does, those who have been successful.

[JPR1959]

Yeah, I see a problem. What does that have to do with waste?

It has to do with military funding. This is not the time to stop funding the military. Getting rid of waste and faulty weapons systems like the F-35 is necessary. Building more ships, tanks, and planes is vital. If the US gets into a shooting war with China or a united Arab state, Americans will be outnumber and must rely on our technology to kick their ass. There is nothing stopping OPEC from raising prices right now that will lead to chaos.

[mikegideon]

It has to do with military funding. This is not the time to stop funding the military. Getting rid of waste and faulty weapons systems like the F-35 is necessary. Building more ships, tanks, and planes is vital. If the US gets into a shooting war with China or a united Arab state, Americans will be outnumber and must rely on our technology to kick their ass. There is nothing stopping OPEC from raising prices right now that will lead to chaos.

I agree it's not time to stop funding the military. Waste is... waste.

[JPR1959]

Umm, ok, what do I care about the marxist ideas of another state's governor?

My idea? Tell everyone over age 40 "you aren't going to see a dime" and raise the age where one receives benefits to at least 70.

Work to end the program, that's the solution. More government is not the answer.

The answer is NOT penalizing, even more than the system already does, those who have been successful.

Interesting. I would say everyone under 50 should be told that. I'm over 50.

[mikegideon]

Interesting. I would say everyone under 50 should be told that. I'm over 50.

How about they steal the money from some of the countries they're conquering instead of stealing from us?

[G27]

Interesting. I would say everyone under 50 should be told that. I'm over 50.

And I'm under 40.

I'd go with under 50 as well, though that gives some folks little time to deal with it.

[JPR1959]

And I'm under 40.

I'd go with under 50 as well, though that gives some folks little time to deal with it.

Either way our country goes, someone will get screwed. There are no simple answers.

[mikegideon]

And I'm under 40.

I'd go with under 50 as well, though that gives some folks little time to deal with it.

Time to deal with it? Minimizing the screwing is still a screwing. Whether you agree with the concept of SS or not, there is a commitment. Backing out of it is going to be ugly.

[JPR1959]

How about they steal the money from some of the countries they're conquering instead of stealing from us?

We should just steal their good looking women. Leave the ugly ones over there.

[mikegideon]

We should just steal their good looking women. Leave the ugly ones over there.

Actually, they bought the women. Paid for them by pilfering the SS fund

[JayC]

They can get out any time, but they need to settle their contract with me. They sure as hell come after me if I'm $2 short on what I "owe" them. The fact that they have mismanaged their way into a pickle doesn't let them off the hook.

Mike,

Again, they don't have the money... how are they supposed to get the money to pay you back?

[G27]

Time to deal with it? Minimizing the screwing is still a screwing. Whether you agree with the concept of SS or not, there is a commitment. Backing out of it is going to be ugly.

Yah, and?

It needs to be done.

Or would you rather see the government just default?

Either way, SS will collapse.

[mikegideon]

Or would you rather see the government just default?

So, they will default on their own citizens instead.

[JayC]

Robert,

I'm sorry, you're missing the point I'm making....

You've paid into the system, but want something out of it and it would be nice to make everybody whole... Where does that money come from?

How much should my generation be expected to pay into the system and get NOTHING out?

You'd have to take 30% of my generations pay just to pay for promised entitlements over the next 20 years, and in return, my generation get nothing when we retire.

I don't believe I offered any "math" in my prior statement; working or otherwise. Moreover, I didn't offer specific details, mathematical or otherwise...there will have to be a phase out of the current SS system and a phase in of something to replace it...everyone...EVERYONE...will have to "give some" but no one should be required to "give all".

I think we need to keep in mind that SS isn't just a matter of "government promises" being made - the government has taken nearly around/near 15% of my pay for decades, depriving me and those like me with the opportunity to have saved that money for ourselves. I'm not saying that as an excuse for not saving at all but I could have easily been a millionaire with just what SS has taken form me had I never saved another penny on my own. For the government to now, effectively say, "screw you baby-boomers" is pretty abhorrent. People at or near retirement age aren't just "owed" their benefits because of the promises made...they need them because what they've paid in wasn't available for them to save for themselves.

[G27]

So, they will default on their own citizens instead.

POint is, either way, some people aren't going to get SS. It's unsustainable. It sucks, yah, even though I'm not as old as some, I've paid a metric-buttload into the system, but from day one I've understood it wasn't going to be there when I retired and made plans accordingly.

I mean, it's not like if the US government defaults you'll keep getting SS checks...

Either way, SS will have to go away or be massively redesigned in the next few years. I'd rather it just go away, personally.

[JPR1959]

All of the country's entitlement programs are going to collapse. I'm scared of the idea of health care costs when I retire. I'm not counting on SS or Medicare either.

[JayC]

Time to deal with it? Minimizing the screwing is still a screwing. Whether you agree with the concept of SS or not, there is a commitment. Backing out of it is going to be ugly.

So the game plan is to turn the next 2 to 3 generation into slaves to pay for the baby boomers entitlements, and on top of that tell them they won't get anything in return for all their years of paying into a completely broken system?

My taxes are already more than 50% of my earnings... We're talking about adding another 15-25% on top of that... and in return when I turn 70 or 75 I can retire with what I've saved in the remaining 25% of my earnings?

Why should I be forced to work until I'm 75 years old, and retire with almost nothing, so you can retire in 10 years and have free medical, and $24k a year in a government retirement program?

[mav]

Call me a pessimist, but I don't think we will find many if any politicians that will have the political courage to bring forth meaningful cuts to entitlement/social programs, which is what is going to have to occur if we are to start paying off the debt. The scary thing is the majority of people don't want entitlements cut either. I ran across this WSJ poll a few moments ago, and I found it rather interesting and depressing.

WSJ/NBC News Poll Results, March 2, 2011 - WSJ.com

Look at questions 22a and 22b. The vast majority believe that cuts to Medicare and Social Security are not necessary or they have no opinion (which means they are walking around with their head up their a$$).

On question 26, I am stunned that a full 91% find it acceptable to place a surtax on people who make over $1 million a year.

While I do question the veracity of polls due to the ease of framing a question to get a desired response, if the respondents are representative of the american public, then I believe it is only a matter of when, not if, the government will default.

[JayC]

The government doesn't have to default, they can just inflate themselves out of debt, and in the process tax us all invisibly.

We're going to have to wake up and see that whats been going on for the last 100 years is killing our way of life, and it's time for a change to self discipline.

Call me a pessimist, but I don't think we will find many if any politicians that will have the political courage to bring forth meaningful cuts to entitlement/social programs, which is what is going to have to occur if we are to start paying off the debt. The scary thing is the majority of people don't want entitlements cut either. I ran across this WSJ poll a few moments ago, and I found it rather interesting and depressing.

WSJ/NBC News Poll Results, March 2, 2011 - WSJ.com

Look at questions 22a and 22b. The vast majority believe that cuts to Medicare and Social Security are not necessary or they have no opinion (which means they are walking around with their head up their a$$).

On question 26, I am stunned that a full 91% find it acceptable to place a surtax on people who make over $1 million a year.

While I do question the veracity of polls due to the ease of framing a question to get a desired response, if the respondents are representative of the american public, then I believe it is only a matter of when, not if, the government will default.

[mikegideon]

So the game plan is to turn the next 2 to 3 generation into slaves to pay for the baby boomers entitlements, and on top of that tell them they won't get anything in return for all their years of paying into a completely broken system?

My taxes are already more than 50% of my earnings... We're talking about adding another 15-25% on top of that... and in return when I turn 70 or 75 I can retire with what I've saved in the remaining 25% of my earnings?

Why should I be forced to work until I'm 75 years old, and retire with almost nothing, so you can retire in 10 years and have free medical, and $24k a year in a government retirement program?

Because I spent my entire life making payments on it. I'm not suggesting they need to rape you either. They just need to figure out who to screw, since they apparently have to screw somebody. You and I should be their last choice, not their first.

[JayC]

Because I spent my entire life making payments on it. I'm not suggesting they need to rape you either. They just need to figure out who to screw, since they apparently have to screw somebody. You and I should be their last choice, not their first.

Mike,

The problem is the money isn't there... it's been wasted, it's gone... The only way to pay your generation is to tax mine a lot more... And give us nothing in return. The money has to come from somewhere... The quicker the baby boomers realize that every dime they get was .15 cents taxed from the younger generations (why .15 because of government waste and overhead)... the quicker we can make the real hard choices needed.

The answer can't be pay me because I paid into the broken system all my life... because that answer turns the next 2 generations into slaves who only get to keep 25-35% of their earning, and they're expected to not only live off of that amount, but to save for retirement too... They will spend their entire lives paying into a broken system, and when they can finally retire at 75 years of age, they will not get 1 cent from the government for all the taxes they've paid into the system.

It's not my generations fault we're in this mess, it's for sure not the next 2 generations who are coming up behind me, we've just now started to become old enough to even hold political office... the baby boomers have had the reigns of power since 1992, you've had 20 years of kicking this mess down the road, and now that your generation is sitting on the edge of a great abyss, you're looking at the younger generations to make it right.

If you think the chaos will be from taking away baby boomers entitlements you're kidding yourself... 65 year olds don't march in the street... retired people don't over throw governments... 15-40 year olds do.

[mikegideon]

If you think the chaos will be from taking away baby boomers entitlements you're kidding yourself... 65 year olds don't march in the street... retired people don't over throw governments... 15-40 year olds do.

Nice.

[JayC]

Nice.

It's a statement of fact... When was the last time you've seen a revolution started by retired persons? The fact is younger generations are much more likely to be the ones in the street over having their taxes increased.

[JPR1959]

It's not my generations fault we're in this mess, it's for sure not the next 2 generations who are coming up behind me, we've just now started to become old enough to even hold political office... the baby boomers have had the reigns of power since 1992, you've had 20 years of kicking this mess down the road, and now that your generation is sitting on the edge of a great abyss, you're looking at the younger generations to make it right.

Actually, the ones who created this mess (FDR and company) are dust now. There are no easy answers. Around the year 2000, I actually thought I'd be able to retire with my 401K. The recession of that spring, followed by 9-11, then the collapse of 2007 altered that. Like so many others in my age bracket, we lost our jobs, our houses are worth tens of thousands less, and college tuition is up 50% since 2001. Whoever is pulling the strings, would you please stop?

[JPR1959]

It's a statement of fact... When was the last time you've seen a revolution started by retired persons? The fact is younger generations are much more likely to be the ones in the street over having their taxes increased.

So what do you want to do with all of these retired persons? Kill 'em?