First Time Gun Buyer

[Guest carter]

I had no idea FN made a SAO FNP-9. I had a DA/SA FNP-9. The gun had fantastic ergonomics. I would have kept it if it hadn't of been a DA/SA trigger, which I absolutely hated. I wouldn't mind shooting one of the SAO FNP-9s.

yea i have shot it...very nice gun for what he paid for it... little over 4 i think from a pvt seller at the murfreesboro gun show... i would like to have an all black one myself...or DE and black slide

[wcsc12]

If you can afford .40 ammo, you can affored any gun chambered for it.... its gold plated instead of copper, apparently...

All kidding aside, lets take a look.

CZ 75 in .40 has a 4.7 barrel and is 1/2 inch total longer than the glock. Its a DA, not a DAO like the glock (or whatever words to that effect). MSRP is $525. A second model is under $500, I cannot find a model name on them, but look at their site or google it.

Ruger P94 is a CHEAP GUN with a 4.5 length barrel and DA style. I have a 9mm version of this and its an awesome gun that I got used for about $250 + fees. A new one is around $500 I think.

Even cheaper is hi-point's 40/45 platform. A $200-300 price tag I think. 4.5 barrel. Lots of haters of the brand yet the site where I saw it gave it 4 out of 5 bullets for overall review.

The EAA witness is a good gun for the money, 4.5 barrel and longish frame.

The bersa thunder is also quite cheap, 4.3 barrel and a much better gun for concealed carry than most of the above monsters.

Most of them are DA, not DAO/glockish design. Is that a problem? I just listed the ones I found in a hurry from brands that I know mostly put out good products (the only questionable one was hi-point, which I am not sure of their quality, never held one). My criteria for the search was a 4.25 to 5 inch barrel and under $600 in price. There are plenty that I did not list as well, but maybe these will get you started if a DA is acceptable.

If you want a DAO or similar action, I can put that in the criteria and try again, but those are less common in .40 in the size you wanted, the large frames are DA usually.

Well...honestly, the action really wasn't a factor to me at all. I don't think I'd ever even use single action anyway. Thanks for the list though. I'll have to give those a look here in a few minutes.

There are certainly some very fine firearms out there at reasonable prices than can double as both a "fun" target shooter as well as a carry weapon...the Glocks are certainly one of those.

That said, before I bought anything you aren't familiar with I would (as you've already started) rent one and shoot with it and see what you really like. If you were closed to Nashville/Murfreesboro I'd be happy to go to a local range with you and let you shoot some of mine....I'm sure there are some TGO members in your area who would do the same.

I guess what I'm saying is; don't rush into a purchase...take your time...figure out what you really like...maybe if what you really like is just a "bit" out of reach then save for a little while and then get what you really want.

I've owned as Sig (P220) and it was a truly excellent gun so if that's what you want then get it even if you have to wait a while...also keep your eyes on the firearms classifieds here on TGO; there are always good deals to be had here.

Thanks for the response. I've definitely not been rushing (almost 3 months of research so far). It's just hard for me to justify (as in to myself because I'm really cheap) a gun costing more than $400 before taxes. I mean, I absolutely loved shooting the the Sig P226 but I didn't $700+ love it.

I will definitely start looking through the classifieds though. Thank you

Although I'm not wild about the ergonomics, I would go with a Glock as well. Just to be upfront, I hate DA/SA triggers. I prefer SAO, but I don't have any problems with Glock's safe action. The other nice thing about Glocks is there is a plethora of aftermarket parts available.

Is there any reason you have chosen .40? If I was planning on shooting a lot at the range, I would consider a 9mm.

Well, I went and looked at ammo prices first and the $1 to $2 per box really isn't that big of a deal to me. I was thinking about a 9mm at first though but it's hard to describe. I'm not really sure the best way of putting it into words but I'd rather shoot .40 over 9mm. It's just a feeling of when I shoot. I've shot 100 rounds of .40 out of a Glock 22 and loved it. I shot 50 rounds out of a 9mm (a Glock 17 and Sig P226 [50 rounds each]) and they weren't bad but I preferred the .40.

However, if I could get that Sig P226 9mm for $400 before taxes, I would stick with 9mm

If you are looking at price.... but still want that Sig then get a Sig P6. I know you said you wanted a 40 (not sure why when you haven't shot anything else) but it fit's the other two musts.

Well I've shot quite a few guns but this is MY first gun. I've shot others guns or rented them at a range to try them out. I've shot Glock 22, Glock 17, Sig P226, Springfield (I don't know the model of it but it was a .45 ACP and it hurt something furious to squeeze out 50 rounds), Sig P220 (was better than the Springfield but still too much for me), and a Baretta (9mm and not sure of the model on it).

The 9mm is the cheapest pistol to shoot of all centerfire ammo. It's not a bad self defense round either. I know you didn't ask about that but I just thought, if you are new to shooting, you might not know. The 40 S&W round is like a 9mm on steriods. It has the stopping power of a 45acp, more or less. The .45acp is a big slow moving round. It has much less pressure than a 40 S&W. Before I bought a 40, I would get a 9mm and a 45acp. Although I love my Springfield XDm-40, I don't shoot it much. I shoot 9mm and 45acp mostly.

Getting back to your original post.....If you pay the extra money for a Sig, you will get it back when you sell it. They retain value better than any pistol I know of besides H&K. I consider Sig and H&K the best polymer pistols on earth, but I own Glocks and Springfileds because they are more affordable, just as reliable and to really appreciate the difference you have to be a good shot and I'm not a good shot....yet.

Well, I don't really have any plans to sell. I'm the type that will just keep it forever. Thanks for the input though

this is a very hard decision .. not sure what sort of person you are... what you want... etc, do you like metal or plastic? glocks are a nice choice but have no tangible safty... for the price... FNP 40 is a nice gun and has a safty (plastic of course) the beretta 96 is a nice gun all metal and has a safty, the M&P 40 is also a nice pic you can get them with or without a safty, friend of mine has a FNP 9 SAO black frame and silver slide and loves it, glocks are NOT double action what so ever, they are single action... I picked up a S&W 4006 which is the basis of the 40 cal round and what the gun was made for, i picked one up used for a little under 400 and love it, big hunk of metal, look on gunsmerica.com that's where i got mine... on target in murfreesboro has a used one in there case right now and its been there for a while so u might be able to get a good deal on it... California Highway Patrol still carries them... there is a lot to choose from around the 400 range which seems what you want to hang around

Meh...I don't really care about metal or plastic so long as it lasts. I did read a bit about the Glock safety system (unfortunately, it was from the Glock literature so it's pretty biased) and I understand how it works in that all the "safeties" are tied into the pulling of the trigger.

Yes the $400 range is definitely my safety zone but I'm also having a hard time with looking at anything that's not brand new. Is there a lot more to look into when buying a used gun? Again, since I've never owned a gun, I've never taken one apart or looked at the internals with any depth so I'd be a bit green in that department.

Edited March 1, 2011 by wcsc12

[Guest bnoland]

ok sir... tell me this... say if you had a lite strike on a round, try and pull the trigger again on that SAME round with out doing anything... ? tell me did it work?

I am confused by this. A double action pistol, if I am remembering correctly, drops a firing pin to the round. The round fires causing the slide to rack back resetting the trigger. A single action pistol you have to actually set the hammer to the firing position before the trigger can release it to fire the round. It cant be fired with out acually setting the hammer into the firing position. A double single can be fired from a single action state, you physically pulling a hammer back, or a double action state, you pull the trigger which pulls the hammer back until releasing it to strike the firing pin and after that it functions like a single action from the first shot on because the action of the slide resets the hammer to the cocked position every time the weapon is fired.

[Guest carter]

I am confused by this. A double action pistol, if I am remembering correctly, drops a firing pin to the round. The round fires causing the slide to rack back resetting the trigger. A single action pistol you have to actually set the hammer to the firing position before the trigger can release it to fire the round. It cant be fired with out acually setting the hammer into the firing position. A double single can be fired from a single action state, you physically pulling a hammer back, or a double action state, you pull the trigger which pulls the hammer back until releasing it to strike the firing pin and after that it functions like a single action from the first shot on because the action of the slide resets the hammer to the cocked position every time the weapon is fired.

i was commenting on Will Carry, with him saying the glock is a DAO pistol...which it's not... it's single action, because you have to rack the slide to set the trigger and striker, and not always does the slide on a DOA pistol set the hamer, take for instance the Para Ordnance LDA (light double action) the hammer never cocks back. not trying to start anything lol or offend anyone...but the glock is NOT a double action pistol, don't care what anyone says, it is what it is, single action striker fire

[Guest bnoland]

i was commenting on Will Carry, with him saying the glock is a DAO pistol...which it's not... it's single action, because you have to rack the slide to set the trigger and striker, and not always does the slide on a DOA pistol set the hamer, take for instance the Para Ordnance LDA (light double action) the hammer never cocks back. not trying to start anything lol or offend anyone...but the glock is NOT a double action pistol, don't care what anyone says, it is what it is, single action striker fire

I understand what you mean. Most think of a 1911 or like because there is a visible hammer. A glock functions the same because if the "hammer" falls but it fails to fire you will have to rack the slide the reset the trigger. A true DAO would be my sig 229dak because if it fails to fire I can press the trigger and the hammer will fall again without me having to do anything extra.

[Guest bkelm18]

Well, I went and looked at ammo prices first and the $1 to $2 per box really isn't that big of a deal to me.

Where are you finding .40SW that's only $1-$2 more than 9mm? .40SW is usually at least $5 more per box of 50. That adds up real quick. If your heart is set on it though then that's what you should get. For your price range, a used Glock would probably be best.

[gl19gobang]

Its like picking out a woman, try out several, keep the one you like, or hell keep em all. but as a shortcut glocks seem to be the best reviews, I have a glock 19 and its a great gun.

[wcsc12]

Where are you finding .40SW that's only $1-$2 more than 9mm? .40SW is usually at least $5 more per box of 50. That adds up real quick. If your heart is set on it though then that's what you should get. For your price range, a used Glock would probably be best.

Well this was just at Wal-Mart as they had the cheapest prices so far. .40 were $28 for a box of 100 and 9mm were $26 or $27 for a box of 100. Online, I've seen prices around $9.99 for a box of 50 for .40 and $7.99 for a box of 9mm.

Its like picking out a woman, try out several, keep the one you like, or hell keep em all. but as a shortcut glocks seem to be the best reviews, I have a glock 19 and its a great gun.

Well thanks I guess I'll start with a Glock and we'll see where that takes me...I know I'll be pissed if I go buy this Glock today and tomorrow there's a deal on a Sig

[Guest gladman]

As to buying new or used, I've only ever bought used. If you buy a reputable gun, like a Ruger or Smith (or Sig, etc.) it should be fine used.

Someone mentioned the S&W 4006 earlier. I've had the 5906 (the 9mm version) and it was a great gun. I also had a Ruger P95 (9mm version of the P94) and it was a great gun. You should be able to find one of those at the low end of the $400s (for the Smith) or $300s (for the Ruger). Both are medium size frames and have some metal in them so they're substantial. Both will eat anything you feed them and they feel like they will last forever.

I really regretted selling my Ruger, and the only reason I sold the 5906 was because I bought a 6906, which was slightly smaller and earier to carry.

[Jonnin]

Its a multiplier. I can shoot 100 or more 9mm a week. $5 to convert that to 40 isnt so bad, on week 1. By week 52, its $260 though, and the difference between 9mm and 40 is tiny. A few feet per second, a wee bit more momentum, and a whopping 1.5 mm larger hole (assuming 50% JHP expansion). I only shoot my .40 once in a while, and use cheap 9mm ammo more often, and .22 is what I shoot the most of (at 550 rounds for $20ish). I don't get out my .44 mag much at all, because when my current stash of old ammo is gone, its going to hurt to buy that stuff.

there are other factors too. You can always find free 9mm brass at a range. .40 is less common. If you decided to reload, it becomes important to have the calibers that you find most. Remember that online ammo costs a bit to ship, as it is heavy.

All that aside, its your money. If you do not shoot often, or .40 is just one of your calibers, etc, its not a big deal. If you hit the range every week, it can get ugly fast. A box of 50 is 3 magazines in a standard 15 round semi auto, its gone in no time.

My daily carry gun is a .40, and its a fine caliber with many, many great firearms chambered for it. But I don't empty box after box of the stuff downrange on a regular basis, about once a month I get 1 box, tops. And its towards the top of my list for the next caliber to reload --- at that point, I may shoot it more often. There is nothing wrong with your choice, but you should be aware of the issue in case you do plan on shooting a lot and if money is an issue for you.

[wcsc12]

I did have one other question to ask...basically, right now, I'm down to the Sig P250 .40 full size and the Glock 22. Any input?

Its a multiplier. I can shoot 100 or more 9mm a week. $5 to convert that to 40 isnt so bad, on week 1. By week 52, its $260 though, and the difference between 9mm and 40 is tiny. A few feet per second, a wee bit more momentum, and a whopping 1.5 mm larger hole (assuming 50% JHP expansion). I only shoot my .40 once in a while, and use cheap 9mm ammo more often, and .22 is what I shoot the most of (at 550 rounds for $20ish). I don't get out my .44 mag much at all, because when my current stash of old ammo is gone, its going to hurt to buy that stuff.

there are other factors too. You can always find free 9mm brass at a range. .40 is less common. If you decided to reload, it becomes important to have the calibers that you find most. Remember that online ammo costs a bit to ship, as it is heavy.

All that aside, its your money. If you do not shoot often, or .40 is just one of your calibers, etc, its not a big deal. If you hit the range every week, it can get ugly fast. A box of 50 is 3 magazines in a standard 15 round semi auto, its gone in no time.

My daily carry gun is a .40, and its a fine caliber with many, many great firearms chambered for it. But I don't empty box after box of the stuff downrange on a regular basis, about once a month I get 1 box, tops. And its towards the top of my list for the next caliber to reload --- at that point, I may shoot it more often. There is nothing wrong with your choice, but you should be aware of the issue in case you do plan on shooting a lot and if money is an issue for you.

Thx I'll definitely keep that in mind before I make my final purchasing decisions. I may even get 2 guns. Get a .22LR Glock clone (I can never remember the name of the company but Glock sued them) for massive shooting days.

Edited March 1, 2011 by wcsc12

[Guest carter]

I did have one other question to ask...basically, right now, I'm down to the Sig P250 .40 full size and the Glock 22. Any input?

Thx I'll definitely keep that in mind before I make my final purchasing decisions. I may even get 2 guns. Get a .22LR Glock clone (I can never remember the name of the company but Glock sued them) for massive shooting days.

have you thought of this... you can get a p220/p226/p229 in 22lr for around 450 or so...and shoot that for a while...then spend the extra 400 to get the sig conversion kit and make it the caliber you want win win

[JReedEsq]

I did have one other question to ask...basically, right now, I'm down to the Sig P250 .40 full size and the Glock 22. Any input?

Thx I'll definitely keep that in mind before I make my final purchasing decisions. I may even get 2 guns. Get a .22LR Glock clone (I can never remember the name of the company but Glock sued them) for massive shooting days.

I planned on getting one of these but learned they have a bad reputation for quality. Instead, get a Glock and then get an Advantage Arms .22lr conversion kit. That way you are using your actual Glock trigger. My works great as long as you stick to the ammo they recommend.

To the OP. I'd suggest you decide whether you want the same trigger pull every time or if you like the idea of a harder double action pull for the first shot then a smoother, shorter single action pull. If you want the same trigger pull every time, look at Glock and M&P. If you want a DA/SA design look at Sig Sauer and call around to try to find a CZ 75.

If you get tired of all the advice, just plunk your money down and buy a Glock 17. You won't be dissappointed.

Edited March 1, 2011 by JReedEsq

[DWARREN123]

The Glock 22 RTF is my favorite sandard size 40 cal handgun.

Check out Smith & Wesson (many models), Taurus (sp), CZ, so many more.

You will just have to check them all out and handle as many as possible.

Like I said above, the G22 RTF is my favorite.

[strickj]

Well this was just at Wal-Mart as they had the cheapest prices so far. .40 were $28 for a box of 100 and 9mm were $26 or $27 for a box of 100. Online, I've seen prices around $9.99 for a box of 50 for .40 and $7.99 for a box of 9mm.

9mm typically goes for around $10 a box per 50. I haven't seen 7.99 in two or three years.

I haven't bought any 40 in some time but my best guess says it was around 15 last time I bought some. Don't think I have ever seen it go for 9.99 anywhere.

[mikegideon]

If you get tired of all the advice, just plunk your money down and buy a Glock 17. You won't be dissappointed.

...or an M&P40

[Guest JMB]

I own 5 Sigs, including a 226 and a 2022. They are both fabulous guns.

The 2022 is 3/10 of an inch shorter than the 226, and there is no difference in accuracy, or reliability. If there is any difference in the muzzle velocity from that .3 inch, I don't think it will be much.

The trigger on the 2022 is the best Sig makes IMVHO, and it can be adapted to a shooters hand size with changable grips and triggers. I personally think the 2022 represents one of the best gun values available today.

That said, if you are patient you can probably find a used 226 for $550 or so. I didn't say a good used Sig, because I've yet to see one worn out. Replace some springs every once in a while and they seem to run on forever.

Either can be found in .40, although I prefer both in 9mm.

Good luck finding what works for you.

[Jonnin]

9mm typically goes for around $10 a box per 50. I haven't seen 7.99 in two or three years.

I haven't bought any 40 in some time but my best guess says it was around 15 last time I bought some. Don't think I have ever seen it go for 9.99 anywhere.

In about 60 seconds of google I found (copied and pasted) 9mm Ammo 115gr FMJ Wolf Performance 50 Round Box

Price: $8.50

---- Its out there, you just have to click on a few places. Of course thats going to have tax & shipping on it. Just last month, one of the big chains (academy??) had it for $8 + tax even in a sale. Steel junk ammo, but it all shoots. The best .40 I found in the same time was $14 a box, but I couldnt find a good deal on it quickly this morn, thats "going rate" for cheap and you find it a little lower sometimes if you dig around.

Edited March 2, 2011 by Jonnin

[mav]

The trigger on the 2022 is the best Sig makes IMVHO

I think you would change your mind if you shot a Sig P226 X5 L1?

Definitely not a first time gun purchase considering the wholesale on the gun is $2070. However, the trigger is absolutely Sig's finest and it is their most accurate as well.

[JC57]

I did have one other question to ask...basically, right now, I'm down to the Sig P250 .40 full size and the Glock 22. Any input?

Thx I'll definitely keep that in mind before I make my final purchasing decisions. I may even get 2 guns. Get a .22LR Glock clone (I can never remember the name of the company but Glock sued them) for massive shooting days.

So for what it's worth, I have a Glock 22 Gen 4 and it's been a reliable accurate gun for me. I don't get that much range time so the cost difference in ammo isn't THAT big a deal to me, but I still prefer to save money here and there.

I bought a Storm Lake 40-to-9mm drop-in conversion barrel and a couple of Glock 17 magazines and I can covert the 40 to 9mm in just a minute or so, and back to 40. Saves money on range time and if ammo ever becomes scarce again (like it was about a year ago) I'll have more options.

I don't have any personal experience with these other brands, but I see posters on various forums who like the Springfield XDM, Smith and Wesson M&P, and Ruger SR40. In your search, you might look at those options as well. All seem to be priced in the same general range as the Glock 22.

There's a For Sale post right now here at TGO for a S&W M&P in 40 SW if you're interested in a used gun.

[wcsc12]

Thank you all again for the great replies. I've done some thinking and I think I'll raise my cap to $700 and just buy the gun I really want and keep it forever. Right now, I was looking at the Sig P226 and the P250. I've shot the P226 and loved it.

To the guy with the Sig Pro P2022, are you sure it's only .3 of an inch (not sarcasm but honestly asking)? On Sig's site, it says there's a .5" difference in barrel length. If it's only .3, I can deal with that and it's less than $400 so it would be right up my alley . As far as trigger's and such go, I'm a noob in that dept. I've shot the Springfield .45ACP and hated it but mostly because of the insane recoil. The P226 9mm I shot was amazing and the trigger was great but it was the one at Coal Creek Armory so it's probably had like 20,000 rounds put through it (or some really higher number). I've shot the Glock 22 before and it did take some getting used to on the trigger. I think by the 3rd or 4th clip, I had the hang of it and was able to get some pretty good sequential shots off.

[Jonnin]

Web sez:

250 barrel length ranges from 3.6 to 4.7 depending on the frame (subcompact, compact, full sized)

226 is 4.4 and that is the only size (?).

2022 is 3.9, only size I found (?).

.45s normally have pretty tame recoil, its a massive round with a small powder charge and it travels at nearly 1/2 the velocity of other calibers. A few of the smaller guns may make this round punishing, but in a full sized pistol, it should not be too bad. Actually, recoil (for pistols!) is always the gun, never the round. Some 9mm will jerk you around like a puppet, others can be fired with one hand all day long. Even a .22 LR round in a derringer can feel a bit fiesty to some folks. Someday, give a full sized .45 a chance.

Getting the gun you want is a great way to start, you are making a great decision there. In a few cases its best to get what you can afford (settle for less) such as your first gun (need it NOW for defense, not in a year when you have saved up... etc) or a deer rifle (only going to shoot 10 rounds out of it a year, maybe that cheapo is better than the 2000 yard tatical rifle with a $800 scope and bipod for now..!) or the like. Most of the time, though, making a careful choice and saving up is better.

One last thing to look at.

BBTI - 9mm Luger

shows that the difference in a 3 inch barrel vs a 4 inch is, on the average for a 9mm round, 75 or so feet per second (more in the longer barrel). Here you can see the effect of barrel length on velocity, which really starts to mess with most handgun rounds at 100 yards or so (the faster the round moves, the sooner it gets to 100 yards, so the less time gravity has to drop the round). Also, velocity has an effect on hollowpoint expansion and penetration. Its probably safe to say that any barrel over 3 inches is going to do anything you are interested in at this time with this firearm, and the biggest effect that the barrels will have for you is the increased weight and moment of inertia (which will help reduce "recoil felt" as the gun grows in size). If that is what you seek (lower recoil), then keep looking at the longer barrels. If the recoil of a 3 inch barrel does not bother you, branch out to try the other models.

[JReedEsq]

Sounds like you've got it figured out. Good luck finding a P226. I'd still recommend 9mm over .40 for a first gun. Nothing against .40, but I own both calibers and I definitely shoot more 9mm.

[Guest carter]

another thing... i think a few people have sigs for sale in the classifieds section i kind of like the DE one... but yea for plinking...i think you REALLY need to look at the p220? (correct me if im wrong) that comes in 22lr... http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_28/products_id/56481 and just save up and buy the .40 S&W conversion kit for it later...you'll thank me for it...it’ll have 2 calibers, and can shoot the piss out of the 22, and if u decide to carry it you will be familiar with ergonomics cause its the same weapon and just switch the slide and have a .40

[wcsc12]

Sounds like you've got it figured out. Good luck finding a P226. I'd still recommend 9mm over .40 for a first gun. Nothing against .40, but I own both calibers and I definitely shoot more 9mm.

Thank you. Well I couldn't have done it with everyone's suggestions. Now it just comes down to being able to hand over my money to get the gun lol so hard to do