The Ethics of Breeding vs. Rescuing Pets.

[Guest GlocKingTN]

I have said my peace, Im done!

[Smith]

Just my .02. but this is about the dumbest, most pointless subject I've ever heard.

Here's a new one. I don't think anyone should pay the grocery store scam, when they can get it for free by growing it or geting the leftovers from the neighbors trashcan. Besides, is there any real difference, other than fancy packaging? Food is food, right?

Feel free to discuss!

[Rightwinger]

Your Right!

http://www.foodforfree.org/

[Guest tjbert47]

Giving the dog away seems a little unsettleing to me....people tend to not care about what is given to them.

This is very true when it comes to pets. If they pay something for the pet it shows good faith. And I would fell more like they really wanted the pet.

Tom in TN

[Rightwinger]

Payment for something doesn't make one feel more of any emotion for it!

I didn't pay anything for my kids either.....does that make me love them any less! Sure, sure someone will try to bring up hospital bills, etc. NOPE, they came from the feelings of love my wife and I felt and wanted to share in children and a family.

Now, to be part of a solution instead of seeming to be a "hater"....I will make a suggestion and a pledge. The original OP of the dog thread finds a location/apartment that will allow him to keep the beloved dog. We all chip in to offset what must be higher rent/mortgage/fees that are not allowing him to bring the family pet along with them.

I'll start with $20.00 pledged. We can have a moderator serve as receiver and keep this family together!

[Guest tjbert47]

Payment for something doesn't make one feel more of any emotion for it!

I didn't pay anything for my kids either.....does that make me love them any less! Sure, sure someone will try to bring up hospital bills, etc. NOPE, they came from the feelings of love my wife and I felt and wanted to share in children and a family.

Now, to be part of a solution instead of seeming to be a "hater"....I will make a suggestion and a pledge. The original OP of the dog thread finds a location/apartment that will allow him to keep the beloved dog. We all chip in to offset what must be higher rent/mortgage/fees that are not allowing him to bring the family pet along with them.

I'll start with $20.00 pledged. We can have a moderator serve as receiver and keep this family together!

I'm in. I can help a little. BTW your kids compared to a pet, come on.

Tom in TN

[Im Neero]

I disagree that there is no such thing as a purebred dog. They are generally noticeable differences between purebreds and mutts. Papers aren't normally a great guide, though, when trying to identify a purebred dog. Things like hip dysplasia, blood disorders, epilepsy, mental disorders, bizarre allergies (my aunt had a German Shepard that was allergic to meat (it had papers, btw)) etc... are normally sure signs of a purebred dog, especially when there's more than one of the above present.

Chihuahuas have some particularly neat little oddities, as evidenced in this link.

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/chihuahua.htm

Not to say all breeding is hooey. My ex-girlfriend bought a beagle from a breeder near here. It didn't come with papers, and only costed about $50 more than a rescue and already had all of it's shots. The breeder was a professional rabbit hunting guide that bred his own hunting dogs and sold the ones that he didn't need. It looked kinda funny for a beagle, but was healthy and strong with a great nose and a strong set of lungs.

Edited February 14, 2008 by Im Neero

[molonlabetn]

Most of the 'pure-breed' oddities result from the predominance of inbreeding... (not joking)

It's a sad truth that most breeds' bloodlines have been stretched too far.

[Rightwinger]

I'm in. I can help a little. BTW your kids compared to a pet, come on.

Tom in TN

No where did I compare my kids to a pet. I stated clearly that money paid for something does not denote more emotion or love! If it cost money to show love I would be in debt several billion dollars!

You make my point for me!

Now how much you in for to help this fine TGO member keep his loved pet!

[Guest canynracer]

from the same site:

The definition of a "purebred" in the dictionary is the following - "bred for many generations from a member of a recognized breed or strain n : a pedigreed animal of unmixed lineage".

According to the AKC a purebred dog means, "the sire and dam of a dog are members of a recognized breed and that the ancestry of a dog consists of the same breed over many generations"

[Rightwinger]

Is that why the Taco Bell dogs shake like that....inbreeding?

[Guest canynracer]

No where did I compare my kids to a pet. I stated clearly that money paid for something does not denote more emotion or love! If it cost money to show love I would be in debt several billion dollars!

You make my point for me!

Now how much you in for to help this fine TGO member keep his loved pet!

sooo....you have never said "You know how much that cost me?" or, "sucks it broke, good thing it was free"

the point was that people that are willing to pay, generally are ones that will take good care of what they are paying for....

dogs that are generally given away, most likely end up in the pound or a rescue shelter.... more so that one that someone spent money on cause they thought things through and made the decision to buy it.....not an impulse one to take it home cause its free, and really small, and reallly cute

[Guest jackdog]

When it comes to dogs I'll take the so called mutts over the purebreds anytime. and in my 30 years of adoption and 16 dogs, i totally disagree with the statement that mutts are more expensive than the so called over-bred purebreds. Glocking I do understand your situation and hold no malice towards you for trying to sell the pup. With 5 at the house right now were kinda full up at the moment, but our house is full of love do to the mutts. See my avatar, that is the real jackdog, a more loyal buddy one could never find.

[Im Neero]

from the same site:

The definition of a "purebred" in the dictionary is the following - "bred for many generations from a member of a recognized breed or strain n : a pedigreed animal of unmixed lineage".

According to the AKC a purebred dog means, "the sire and dam of a dog are members of a recognized breed and that the ancestry of a dog consists of the same breed over many generations"

That's a purebred dog alright, thanks for clearing that up

[Rightwinger]

sooo....you have never said "You know how much that cost me?" or, "sucks it broke, good thing it was free"

the point was that people that are willing to pay, generally are ones that will take good care of what they are paying for....

dogs that are generally given away, most likely end up in the pound or a rescue shelter.... more so that one that someone spent money on cause they thought things through and made the decision to buy it.....not an impulse one to take it home cause its free, and really small, and reallly cute

Sorry, several attempts have been made to link comments of money and emotion to animals or people then turn it around to inanimate objects.

Sure I have not worried about something I didn't pay for. Got a huge TV in the garage that my bro-in-law had found, didn't want, gave to me. It worked for several years for me in the bedroom. It quit, now its in the garage. Its a freaking TV! I place so little emotional attachment on objects as compared to family and friends that it would be unmeasurable.

I don't see the connection between a good deal on a pistol, car, bottle of water and an animal or person. Money has nothing to do in a relationship except determine how much the attorneys will divy up when it becomes the major topic of the relationship. (how many of you guys have YOUR account and she has HER account to put each of your checks in??? Now thats a truly shared love! ahhh)

Hope he keeps the dog. I'm still willing to give him 20 to assist in that effort. I do not need another dog as ours still lives with the 4 cats and the guinea pig.

[Guest canynracer]

That's a purebred dog alright, thanks for clearing that up

LOL....so I was a day late and a dollar short...LOL

[Guest canynracer]

Sorry, several attempts have been made to link comments of money and emotion to animals or people then turn it around to inanimate objects.

Sure I have not worried about something I didn't pay for. Got a huge TV in the garage that my bro-in-law had found, didn't want, gave to me. It worked for several years for me in the bedroom. It quit, now its in the garage. Its a freaking TV! I place so little emotional attachment on objects as compared to family and friends that it would be unmeasurable.

I don't see the connection between a good deal on a pistol, car, bottle of water and an animal or person. Money has nothing to do in a relationship except determine how much the attorneys will divy up when it becomes the major topic of the relationship. (how many of you guys have YOUR account and she has HER account to put each of your checks in??? Now thats a truly shared love! ahhh)

Hope he keeps the dog. I'm still willing to give him 20 to assist in that effort. I do not need another dog as ours still lives with the 4 cats and the guinea pig.

10-4...I was only quoting cause you used the term "something" I misunderstood...carry on..

[shaftbass]

Mars, I hate to derail your thread, but I'm going to.

Why did you throw your internet message board moderator weight around in the radiator thread when people started discussing something other than guns, and then turn around an hour later and start this animal ethics thread?

If this turns into a religio-centric thread, posts will disappear. Hey folks, it's a gun board, not a religion board.

Back to gun stuff, I think that when you are committing crimes that are universally condemned, like murder, theft, etc., that you should be considered an outlaw and subjet to whatever happens to you.

[Guest TNDixieGirl]

Actually, he didn't start this as a thread. It began as a response in a for sale ad involving a dog. It was later deemed an inappropriate conversation to be in the Classifieds and was moved over here. But not by Mars (if I remember correctly).

[shaftbass]

Actually, he didn't start this as a thread. It began as a response in a for sale ad involving a dog. It was later deemed an inappropriate conversation to be in the Classifieds and was moved over here. But not by Mars (if I remember correctly).

Regardless, it's a gun board as Mars said. How long before posts start disappearing in this thread like they *almost* did in the radiator thread

[Marswolf]

Much of what we discuss here is a matter of ethics, but not a matter of religious belief. Is it ethical to prevent people from carrying weapons to protect themselves from thugs? Is it ethical to forbid carry in some locations like a restaurant that serves alcohol? These ethical concepts may be as easily considered by an atheist as a religious person and come down to practical concepts. That is largely the touchstone, whether an ethical concept may be held without reliance on religion.

If you want to argue that abortion is good or bad because it saves or costs the public tax dollars, that is very different than arguing that it is good or bad because God (or more like his self-proclaimed representative) told you it was OK or not OK There is no sensible debate of belief.

When you get into things that are matters of religious doctrine, rather than logic and general convention (such as, for example, that murder and stealing are bad), you are just saying that one idea is better than another just because you happen to believe it. In my view, that is the equivalent of two kids shouting at the top of their lungs that their dad is more handsome that the other kid's dad. It is inherently unresolvable, a waste of time, and needlessly divisive.

I don't think anyone can reasonably accuse me of being a board Nazi.

[Smith]

I glad to see you can dismiss any religious argument as inherently "not logical". Believing secularism is not religious is not logical. Thanks for the dad talk anyway.

You (Marswolf) hi-jacked a perfectly acceptable thread by making non-sense arguments about the "ethics" of him selling his dog. It's his property to sell if he wishes and buy if he wishes. The market dictates this, not a "ethics" cop named Marswolf. I find this inconsistent with you other views on personal liberty.

[Marswolf]

I glad to see you can dismiss any religious argument as inherently "not logical". Believing secularism is not religious is not logical. Thanks for the dad talk anyway.

You (Marswolf) hi-jacked a perfectly acceptable thread by making non-sense arguments about the "ethics" of him selling his dog. It's his property to sell if he wishes and buy if he wishes. The market dictates this, not a "ethics" cop named Marswolf. I find this inconsistent with you other views on personal liberty.

Yeah, you are probably right that I shouldn't have said anything about him selling his pet, even if it really irritates me. That's his business, even if I disagree with it. I probably deserve to be taken to task for that. Emotion, and personal experience, got in the way. He has every right to do that. And I apologize to him if I came on too strong. It has occurred to me that I don't know anything of why this is taking place, as if that makes any difference.

But I'll have to reject the idea that my views are nonsense. I think you will find that I have pretty good reasons for my views. If I have a fault, it's probably that I expect too much logic in decision making. The world doesn't work that way.

But I will stick to the idea that religion is based on belief, not logic, and sometimes obvious nonsense. You shall not suffer a witch to live. Idiotic. But that doesn't mean that all of religion is evil. As I've said, I've become more religious over the years, having see some things I can't explain with science.

[Smith]

Yeah, you are probably right that I shouldn't have said anything about him selling his pet, even if it really irritates me. That's his business, even if I disagree with it. I probably deserve to be taken to task for that. Emotion, and personal experience, got in the way. He has every right to do that. And I apologize to him if I came on too strong. It has occurred to me that I don't know anything of why this is taking place, as if that makes any difference.

But I'll have to reject the idea that my views are nonsense. I think you will find that I have pretty good reasons for my views. If I have a fault, it's probably that I expect too much logic in decision making. The world doesn't work that way.

But I will stick to the idea that religion is based on belief, not logic, and sometimes obvious nonsense. You shall not suffer a witch to live. Idiotic. But that doesn't mean that all of religion is evil. As I've said, I've become more religious over the years, having see some things I can't explain with science.

I appreciate the response. More in line with what I've seen in the past.

BTW - religious belief (at least good belief) needs and should be rooted in the correlation of truth/facts (logic). I agree that those who make decisions about anything, including belief, out of feelings or personal perception are not good judges of that reality. I know this is getting into "religious" talk, just saying we agree more than we differ.

[Marswolf]

I shall pray for your dispensation.