What would you do in a situation like this?

[gregintenn]

I'll be honest I despise people that say they don't get involved because they have a family to protect. Looking out for ourselves only is why this country has gone to ****. If your wife or daughter was being raped and beaten to death in an alley would you really want to find out later that someone just walked by and did nothing?

I'm sorry you feel that way. Were that my wife, you'd best get behind something, becaues she'd be emptying her Smith and Wesson.

[Erik88]

And you guys are all thinking that everyone's situation, ability to get involved, etc. is the same as yours. No insult intended to you but I remember being an idealistic college student with clear answers to what is 'right' and what is 'wrong'. I have since grown out of those notions.

Back in late August, I was diagnosed with cardiomyopathy. Simply put, although my veins and arteries are 100% clear and I have no evidence of arrhythmia, my heart muscle is weak. In fact, at the time of diagnosis, I was in congestive heart failure (I lost more than 35 pounds of retained water in the week that I spent in the hospital) and my heart was functioning at 15%. The reason for this happening is still not entirely clear.

According to the cardiologist's reading of a subsequent echocardiogram, my function has since increased to a 'whopping' 30%. Hopefully, it has improved more since that last cardio and even more hopefully it will get to at least 45% by May so that I will no longer be a candidate for an implanted defibrulator. I say all of this to say that, although I won't even be 40 until June of this year, I ain't gonna be involved in extreme physical activity such as whoopin' ass any time soon. Further, it was stated that the assailant has a taser. Do you have any idea what a taser might do to someone whose heart is already only functioning at about 30%? I don't - and I don't intend to find out.

For me, that means this is largely a handgun carry issue because, even though I carry pepper spray, etc. when I cannot legally carry a gun the chances of me willingly getting involved and risking severe inajury or death on behalf of a stranger because of my already compromised health are just about nil. If I were armed and became involved and the assailant decided to include me in his attack, my only real option at this time would be to shoot the SOB because I am in no condition, currently, to try to fight him or run away. So, for me, 'doing the right thing' for myself and my loved ones - who have to remain #1 when I make such decisions with strangers being about a distant #50 or so - would be to stay the hell out of other people's problems as much as possible. If that makes me a jerk then so be it. I've been a jerk, before, and it can be quite liberating.

I'm sorry to hear about your health. And since your health prevents you from rendering aid, then I completely understand if you have to hang back and be a good witness. However, I still stand by my original post that anyone(who is physically capable) should not just stand by and do nothing. I think you would agree.

[JAB]

My point in these arguments has always been "do something". Don't just walk away.

Now on that we agree, although as I said my 'doing something' would most likely mean calling the police and yelling to let the guy know that they cops were coming while maintaining as much distance as possible. Greg has said that he would call the cops, too. I don't think that anyone here has advocated simply turning a blind eye. Being that most of us now have cellphones in our pockets, not at least calling 911 and trying to be a good witness is something that I wouldn't be able to understand - although I would be willing to bet that there are daily examples of incidents where bystanders could have\should have called 911 but don't.

[Erik88]

Now on that we agree, although as I said my 'doing something' would most likely mean calling the police and yelling to let the guy know that they cops were coming while maintaining as much distance as possible. Greg has said that he would call the cops, too. I don't think that anyone here has advocated simply turning a blind eye. Being that most of us now have cellphones in our pockets, not at least calling 911 and trying to be a good witness is something that I wouldn't be able to understand - although I would be willing to bet that there are daily examples of incidents where bystanders could have\should have called 911 but don't.

calling 911 is a great start, but as we all know when seconds count............

So when someone, who is physically capable of helping, just stands there and does nothing but call 911 they might as well have turned a blind eye.

[Punisher84]

I'm sorry you feel that way. Were that my wife, you'd best get behind something, becaues she'd be emptying her Smith and Wesson.

All good and well. My wife as well, but what about a college age daughter not able to carry? What if your wife was caught off guard and knocked unconscious? There are hypotheticals on both sides.

Now on that we agree, although as I said my 'doing something' would most likely mean calling the police and yelling to let the guy know that they cops were coming while maintaining as much distance as possible. Greg has said that he would call the cops, too. I don't think that anyone here has advocated simply turning a blind eye. Being that most of us now have cellphones in our pockets, not at least calling 911 and trying to be a good witness is something that I wouldn't be able to understand - although I would be willing to bet that there are daily examples of incidents where bystanders could have\should have called 911 but don't.

Agreed on that.

[gregintenn]

All good and well. My wife as well, but what about a college age daughter not able to carry? What if your wife was caught off guard and knocked unconscious? There are hypotheticals on both sides

I'd be honored if you helped her, but I'd understand if you didn't. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. I further hope none of us are in a similar situation. When I was 20 years old and single, I'd have jumped in without thinking. Now that I have a family that depends on me, my view of the world has changed.

Edited February 22, 2011 by gregintenn

[Guest Red5]

Now that I have a family that depends on me, my view of the world has changed.

Agree with that 100%

[dralarms]

I was going to stay out of this but I've decided that my 2 cents is worth just as much as everyone elses.

1. man in mask

2. woman on ground being beat, tasered, stabbed. Heck I don't know but I'm finding out.

First thing I'm doing is dialing 911, while I have them on the phone I'm yelling at the man telling him cops are on the way and to stop.

IF he does not comply, I'm unholstering and letting him and 911 that I'm doing so.

If he make a move towards me after assaulting a woman/child, ETc. I'm notr going to hesitate, because by that time he has had enough warnings and 911 has heard it all.

I'm no internet badass by no means but I was brought up to help those in need and I will where I can.

If it's a cop/dea/fbi (or any other alphabit LE) then they will identify themselves at the 1st moment of contact (which would be before I draw my firearm).

I have a wife, a daughter, and 2 granddaughters. I would hope there would be someone there to help them out in the same situation.

But the most important thing to do is CALL 911, get them on the phone and on the way, then IMHO do what you have to do to protect the innoncent.

[gregintenn]

then IMHO do what you have to do to protect the innoncent.

How do you know who's the innocent? I'd be more inclined to step in if I had that piece of information.

[LagerHead]

How do you know who's the innocent? I'd be more inclined to step in if I had that piece of information.

He'll be the one with the t shirt that says "I'm the good guy."

Robert

[Guest friesepferd]

I think we are going around in circles here.

There seem to be two questions at hand:

1) Are you certain you know who the bad guy is

2) If you are certain, should you help

My response to those are as follows:

1) In this circumstance, we have a guy in a mask with a weapon and a lady on the ground screaming. Now this still may not be 100% clear, but its awfully close. No- someone should not run in and shoot the guy. Nobody here is saying that’s what they would do. People are saying that given the somewhat obvious appearance of bad guy - good guy. They would investigate. As many said- if the guy in a mask was a cop (and why the heck a cop would be wearing a mask I donno), then he would identify himself. Same as any good guy. If I had just tasered someone who was trying to attach me and someone ran up and said 'HEY! What’s going on here!' I would immediately identify the situation. I think the only time any of us here would shoot the guy, is if after saying something, he turned lethal aggression towards you or the lady. I think the likeliness of you getting shot by a good guy because you ran up yelling what’s going on, is very very very very low.

2) People have different opinions on this, and that’s your own right. Someone who has health problems is much likely to run in and help someone than someone who has a better chance of being able to take care of themselves. A single man is more likely to help than a single mother with 3 children, etc. If there is some kind of confrontation going on, yes, there is likelihood for you to get hurt or killed if you intervene. So whether or not you do so can only be up to you.

Personally, If I see someone in danger, and I think that there is a good possibility that I could stop them without getting myself killed, it would be hard for me to not do so. I can't imagine seeing a fellow woman defenseless on the ground screaming with a man over her in a mask and me hide and call the cops. But again, that’s just me. You can argue the point that if this lady didn't want to die, that she should have carried- but they were in a hospital parking lot- maybe she would have if the hospital were not posted? And even if not, I find that no reason to leave her to a monster.

[tnhawk]

The victim may be an anti-gun liberal - but I still couldn't turn my head and walk away, unless I recognized the victim was Peloski or Clinton.

[Guest friesepferd]

The victim may be an anti-gun liberal - but I still couldn't turn my head and walk away, unless I recognized the victim was Peloski or Clinton.

lol. yea, that :-p

[JAB]

Okay, I think it is time to bring some (on topic, believe or not) levity to this thread through the use of some probably inappropriate humor.

This whole discussion has reminded me of a discussion I had with a former coworker, back in probably the late '90s. The discussion was sparked by an incident in Knoxville where a guy beat up a woman pretty much in the street in a Knoxville neighborhood. If I recall correctly, the woman was not seriously injured and the big part of the story was that it happened at a time of day when people were sitting out on their porches and they all apparently just sat on their porches and did nothing.

The coworker in question was an older, black man named Willard and the discussion went a little something like this (not verbatim because it has been a few years but the discussion made such an impression on me that I remember most of it) :

Willard: Did you hear about that man beating up that woman right out in the street.

Me: Yeah, that's awful.

Willard: Well, I don't know the specifics but I can guarantee you that it didn't happen in a black neighborhood.

Me: Why do you say that?

Willard: Because it said that people just sat on their porches while she was getting beat up. Ain't no black man just going to sit on the porch while something like that happens. I can tell you that there ain't a man in my neighborhood that would just sit there on the porch while that happened. Even as old as I am, I wouldn't have just sat there.

Me: Really?

Willard: Naw. Too damn hard to see sitting on the porch. You gotta get up and walk down to the sidewalk, at least to the bottom of the steps so you can get a better view.

I swear to you I did not make this up. I still have to laugh when I think of the dead-pan way he said that last sentence.

[Erik88]

LOL WIN^^^^^

[G27]

LOL WIN^^^^^

Yah, nicely set up.

[Guest carter]

I'm going to add my personal expierence here... few years ago i was at work, went out to the side walk to smoke... I saw a scuffle in progress at the corner of the building i work in, maybe like 2-3 guys whopping this other guy... so the guy getting his butt kicked gets away...runs up the side walk, then turns around and walks back up the middle of the rd with a gun drawn and begins firing in the direction of the guys that where kicking his butt...along with everyone else standing outside the door... i call the police tell them whats going on... seemed like 10-15 minutes later they finally show up while the shooter was long gone... of course our security was not armed, the place i work does not allow carry inside or on the property... luckly i was behind the shooter on the opposite sidewalk... what would yall do in that situation?

[Punisher84]

I'm going to add my personal expierence here... few years ago i was at work, went out to the side walk to smoke... I saw a scuffle in progress at the corner of the building i work in, maybe like 2-3 guys whopping this other guy... so the guy getting his butt kicked gets away...runs up the side walk, then turns around and walks back up the middle of the rd with a gun drawn and begins firing in the direction of the guys that where kicking his butt...along with everyone else standing outside the door... i call the police tell them whats going on... seemed like 10-15 minutes later they finally show up while the shooter was long gone... of course our security was not armed, the place i work does not allow carry inside or on the property... luckly i was behind the shooter on the opposite sidewalk... what would yall do in that situation?

Smoke my cigarette.

[DaveTN]

what would yall do in that situation?

Smoke my cigarette.

Beat me to it.

I’m not jumping in to help some guys that were assaulting someone. Let the cops worry about it.

[gregintenn]

I'm going to add my personal expierence here... few years ago i was at work, went out to the side walk to smoke... I saw a scuffle in progress at the corner of the building i work in, maybe like 2-3 guys whopping this other guy... so the guy getting his butt kicked gets away...runs up the side walk, then turns around and walks back up the middle of the rd with a gun drawn and begins firing in the direction of the guys that where kicking his butt...along with everyone else standing outside the door... i call the police tell them whats going on... seemed like 10-15 minutes later they finally show up while the shooter was long gone... of course our security was not armed, the place i work does not allow carry inside or on the property... luckly i was behind the shooter on the opposite sidewalk... what would yall do in that situation?

Kinda hard to figure out who the bad guy was, huh?

[gregintenn]

Beat me to it.

I’m not jumping in to help some guys that were assaulting someone. Let the cops worry about it.

I've been saying this the entire thread!!!

[DaveTN]

I've been saying this the entire thread!!!

Sure, but you weren’t jumping in to help the innocent woman. I’m not jumping in to help the two criminals that are getting shot at. Matter of fact I’m not even calling 911.

[gregintenn]

Sure, but you weren’t jumping in to help the innocent woman. I’m not jumping in to help the two criminals that are getting shot at. Matter of fact I’m not even calling 911.

I don't recall reading in the scenerio that the woman was innocent. You just assume she's not a criminal.

[Erik88]

I don't recall reading in the scenerio that the woman was innocent. You just assume she's not a criminal.

- Kingsport police arrest a man who they say attacked a woman in the parking lot of Indian Path Hospital Saturday night.

They tell us he confessed to the attack

what part are you confused by?

[gregintenn]

what part are you confused by?

The part where if you were standing there seeing this take place, you wouldn't have access to the police report.