Gunsmith for J-Frame S&W

[Guest nicemac]

I have two S&W 442s. Had a local gunsmith do a trigger job on the one my wife carries a couple of years ago. He made the trigger very smooth. I want to get the trigger done on the other one and found out he had gone up on his price (I thought it was high compared to the job I had someone else do on my M&P9 anyway…)

So, the question is, what is a fair price for a J-Frame trigger job and who around Nashville would you recommend?

[hipower]

I'd recommend checking with John Wall at Eastside Gun shop at 615-258-4080. he's done some work for me and I've been very satisfied. My jobs have been on autos so I can't say what he'd ask for yours.

[graycrait]

Quite frankly if you get the dvd "Trigger Job" by Jerry Miculek you will never have to find someone to do a S&W trigger job for you again. It is relatively painless and easy. Tools are minimal but a good S&W Screwdriver set will really help. Miculek does the minimum on this DVD to get a S&W revolver working as it should without harming reliability or safety. I looked at an FBI agent's privately owned 442 one time after he had a trigger job by a smith in the Chicago area which cost him 180.00. I showed the agent that all his Chicago smith did was put in 2 shims and nothing else, couldn't have taken 5 minutes from open to close. Also because the 442 is aluminum framed you should not touch the insides of the face plate or frame with stones, dremel etc. However, rebound block hand, hammer block, trigger and cylinder lock can all be dressed up a bit. You can also carefully take some 0000 steel wool and carefully sping the trigger and hammer pins, don't bend them. This just ensures that no burrs are present on pin or boss. You can also take a piece of 2000 grit sandpaper found in the auto body work section at Walmart and roll it up a bit and spin it within the hammer and trigger pin holes just a little bit to make sure they are smooth. Then there is the spring exchange and testing for reliability. It may be that shims may help, but not always on a newer revolver where the bosses are crisp. When working on a S&W revolver it is a lot of little things that add up to a nice action, not just one magic thing. I like a lube that that when you use a little of it easily creeps, bleeds or migrates well. 50:50 CLP and red tranny fluid applied with a needle applicator works for me. Another thing. I have a friend who owns a gun store. We got some snap caps out and tried the triggers on 6 or 8 NIB J frames one day. Every one of the triggers were different, ranging from pretty darn nice to relatively poor. This seemingly proved these are mass produced guns on a design that is over 100 years old, using materials, parts, tolerances and methods that meet economies of scale and price point goals. Even time proven well-designed mass produced guns often times can be improved with a little attention to detail after the sale. Having said all that I really think a lot of both S&W and Ruger revolvers. If you can't find an economical smith for your revolver just get the Miculek DVD, watch it once from beginning to end, then get the right tools (minimal expense and will last you your life) and watch it again with your remote at hand and revolver safely ready for the work.

[Guest nicemac]

I have watched some YouTube videos on disassembling J-Frames and have had the side plate off. It does not look very complicated.

I have a small gunsmith screwdriver set and have thought about DIY. However, I had someone tell me that if I did it myself and the gun WAS ever used in a self-defense situation, I was more likely to be sued. (You know, reckless gun owner with a hair trigger)

[Guest BenderBendingRodriguez]

I have watched some YouTube videos on disassembling J-Frames and have had the side plate off. It does not look very complicated.

I have a small gunsmith screwdriver set and have thought about DIY. However, I had someone tell me that if I did it myself and the gun WAS ever used in a self-defense situation, I was more likely to be sued. (You know, reckless gun owner with a hair trigger)

Doesn't seem like it would make you any more likely to be sued, but it might be something that could come up at trial. The major focus would still have to be whether you were actually justified in discharging your firearm, though. Plus, I'm not sure that there would really be that much distinction between a DIY job (as long as it wasn't an accidental discharge or a mechanical failure discharge) and a store-bought job if the argument is going to be put forth that you're a nut with a hair trigger.

[graycrait]

If you watch and follow the Miculek DVD it will not get you in trouble. IMHO you have to use a gun for self defense then everything else has gone to Hades anyway and you are a deadly force situation. If I am in a deadly force situation then I don't care if I use a Mack truck, 2lb hammer, crowbar, baseball bat, spear, tricked out 1911, HiPoint .45, Lorcin .380 or a smooth running J-frame.

A smooth gun is not a dangerous gun, the converse might be more true. If you make the gun dangerous then you have done something wrong. Miculek painstakingly points out how not to make the gun dangerous.

You are not looking to make the gun an exhibition or speedy range gun and Miculek is not doing this in the DVD. What Miculek shows is that he is merely making the gun operate as if it had had 5,000 rounds down the pipe, smooth and well within factory specifications. I am pretty sure that Miculek and the Clarks could take a gun to the ragged edge if they wanted to but this DVD is not about that.

I started doing a lot of my own gun work after getting what I considered poor results from so-called professional gunsmiths. I'm sure I could have had some of the work done by shipping the guns off to reknown gunsmiths. However, my wallet and upbringing preclude that sort of expense. Plus I wouldn't have learned anything. I am more or less a self-trained armorer who takes stock parts, safely dresses them up, maybe gets some new springs and enjoys the look on faces of people whose guns I work on occasionally or hand my guns to others to shoot. I get a kick out of that "Wow, this gun shoots great" look. I have made a couple of pistols dangerous for me, but I merely had to respring them to bring them back to factory specs. I find nothing amusing about dangerous guns or dangerous shooters.

Have I ruined parts trying out this or that - heck yes. However, if you follow Miculek's DVD on the S&W revolver you will not ruin any parts.

In a DAO revolver about the only thing you can do that is dangerous is make the gun not shoot reliably, which could kill you. To do that you would have to ruin some part which is unlikely if you follow directions. Or you put in spring combo that ruins proper timing or primer ignition. This will not happen if you follow the DVD. However, it is sort of fun to see how safe and light you can get a revolver to properly work in DAO. The trick most often becomes making the gun ignite a variety of primers reliably. I like a gun to be able to shoot any ammo I find so too light of a hammer strike makes no sense to me. However, a handloader may have other ideas especially in a competition or exhibition gun.

In a double action revolver you can do the above to make the gun dangerous as well as make the gun dangerous in single action. Most S&W DA revolvers break at about 1.5lbs anyway, way too dangerous to be running around with the hammer cocked in a defensive situation. That is why so many police departments went to DAO revolvers prior to the big change to semi-auto pistols.

I could never justify taking a 400.00 revolver spending money shipping it both ways to a gunsmith to do work that I can do just as well. However, if I had to replace the barrel or have the forcing cone cut and barrel set back, have something milled or lathed, or other technical work requiring a high overhead in tools and knowledge then I will use the smith for revolver work. I know my limitations and realize I have many.

I hope you find a smith in your price range, if not get the DVD and take a look at it. If you think you don't want to tackle the job you can likely find someone to buy the DVD from you and you are out very little money and really not much time.

[Guest nicemac]

Thanks Gray.

EDIT: I find that the DVD "Trigger Job" covers K,L and N frames, but nothing on the J. Am I missing something?

Edited February 16, 2011 by nicemac

[graycrait]

the guns are all basically the same except for the size of parts and the hammer spring in a J frame is coil, rather than leaf. You'll need a paper clip to take the hammer spring out. Pull the trigger until you see the hole on the strut appear beneath the spring, stick the paperclip through it and take it out. Same same other wise and the DAO hammer vice either the bull nose or new "floating" firing pin in the bigger Smiths.

[Guest FiddleDog]

Consider Jeff at Mossy Creek Custom, as well. He's a good smith and a good neighbor. He's right here in the South Nashville/Crieve Hall area.

[DaveTN]

EDIT: I find that the DVD "Trigger Job" covers K,L and N frames, but nothing on the J. Am I missing something?

No, you aren’t missing anything. The Miculek DVD also assumes you know a little; like how to use a stone properly. You can trash the components of your gun if you don’ know what you are doing.

J-frames have stiff triggers by design. You will never get a J-frame as smooth as a full size gun. (And still have it reliable enough to be a carry gun.)

They are belly guns; not target guns, I wouldn’t mess with the trigger.

[Trekbike]

They are belly guns; not target guns, I wouldn’t mess with the trigger.

+1

The only thing I would do is a little dry firing to smooth it up some.

[Guest nicemac]

I had the trigger on my other 442 done. It made all the difference in the gun in the world. With the addition of a CTC grip, the gun is almost fun to shoot. Thanks for the tip on EastSide - I talked to them earlier. If I don't DIY it, I will take it there–for 1/3 the price of my last job…

[graycrait]

See - you have choices: 1) Do nothing 2) Commission some gunsmith do it for you 3) Do it yourself and learn something in the process.

The previous poster may have a point if you are drinking alcohol or doing recreational drugs while working on the gun, have a disorder that prevents you from concentrating, you shake a lot, etc. If you can change and gap the sparkplugs in your car, jump start a battery without blowing something up, sharpen a blade for your lawn mower, you can likely work on the action of your S&W revolver. If you want to do it in 5 minutes, you will jack something up.

Sort of like reloading, best have some peace and quiet when you do this and try to allot for enough time to start and finish in one sitting, at least the first time or two. Put a white towel down for your workplace so that things don't roll around and stay in place. A bowl or pan is handy to have to put parts in while you are not addressing them specifically. Barring those things I doubt you will have much trouble, except for maybe that small spring shooting out into the carpet or something like that:) I hate that. And it does happen once in a while.

Granted, the J-frames generally won't be as smooth as the K,L,Ns but that has as much to with mass and steel and steel as anything else. Everything in combat handgun action work is nuance.

Designing a revolver may be hard science; taking one apart, cleaning it, stoning out a few tool marks and reassembling it isn't. That is all you are doing. Also, you do not have to burn candles and incense while kneeling to the blessed virgin on a purple velvet rug, pleading to the gods for guidance surrounding this unfathomable mystery. This is pretty straightforward stuff.

[Guest nicemac]

I imagine this will go DIY. I have had the gun open–there just isn't that much there.

I have been both a Ford and ASE Master Technician. I have built racing engines (that won), computers and have been an avid woodworker (including rebuilding and maintaining both hand and power tools) for almost 20 years.

This is doable.

[gregintenn]

If you hire someone to do it, make certain they know what they are doing. If you do it yourself, all you are wanting to do is to get rid of burrs and smooth machining marks a bit. I understand that parts like the trigger, hammer, etc. are surface hardened, and if you stone through that, you are left with a soft surface that will wear quickly, and soon become unserviceable. Also, make certain to not change the angles on any of the contact surfaces. Taks your time with a quality fine grit stone and give it a shot. There's really not much to it. If you look in the gunsmithing section here: S&W-Smithing, you'll find more information than you'd ever want to know, from some of the most knowledgeable S&W nuts in the world. Click on th FAQ at the top of the page, and you'll learn everything you need to know.

[Guest nicemac]

If you hire someone to do it, make certain they know what they are doing. If you do it yourself, all you are wanting to do is to get rid of burrs and smooth machining marks a bit. I understand that parts like the trigger, hammer, etc. are surface hardened, and if you stone through that, you are left with a soft surface that will wear quickly, and soon become unserviceable. Also, make certain to not change the angles on any of the contact surfaces. Taks your time with a quality fine grit stone and give it a shot. There's really not much to it. If you look in the gunsmithing section here: S&W-Smithing, you'll find more information than you'd ever want to know, from some of the most knowledgeable S&W nuts in the world. Click on th FAQ at the top of the page, and you'll learn everything you need to know.

THANK YOU!

[graycrait]

nicemac,

If you were over in the Clarksville area I would just give you a Rossi "J-frame" to practice on, but with your experience you should have no issues. Heed gregintenn's advice though. Do not get agressive with the stoning. Miculek emphasizes this also. The hardest part is applying enough pressure in prying up the rebound block and not having the spring hit you in the eye. Don't bend the pin. I haven't ruined one yet by accident.

[R1100R]

John Wall at Eastside is your man. He has worked on my wheel guns, autos and rifles. His prices are the best I found

[Guest nicemac]

Yeah, his quote was 1/3 my normal shop…

[TNWNGR]

Doing action job's on S&W revolver's isn't that difficult but not everyone want's to do project work on their carry gun's. Many people prefer to pay someone to do the work for them, there's nothing new about this so I believe in leaving it up to the owner. Any good gunsmith will give you an up front cost or estimate as well as provide you with an opputunity to look at some of they're work. Some will provide references as well but that type of information is becoming more and more web based instead.

[Guest Law of Thirds]

You could always try the old dry fire/shoot more trick. It's amazing what a few thousand trigger pulls will do to a J-Frame trigger.