Gas Prices

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I'm not sure I can buy into that notion. Our energy reserves are huge if you count coal and nuclear but not so much for oil.

Our use of oil had made us a loser in the trade wars. The trade deficit wouldn't be a trade deficit if we didn't import so much oil. The idea that we can pump enough oil out of American reserves to keep it cheap is, sadly, laughable. It isn't the regs getting in the way, it is the fact that we don't have a bunch and what we do have is comparatively expensive to get out of the ground.

Could nuclear and electric cars alleviate the problem? Perhaps

I won't go into the area of your trade deficit ideas, but I will venture into what you consider laughable.

I do know this for a fact: known oil reserves, BOE's in the million's/day are covered up by the Antiquities Act, which to me is political and pushes our needs of that commodity to come from distant shores. ANWR reserves are quite large estimates. Now, if you live in a universe that only includes our precious Persian Gulf region for oil reserves and have been taught most of your educated life that that's it, I guess it's laughable.

Why is Brazil drilling off their coast? I think it has something to do with huge reserves discovered. What about the Gulf of Mexico, that several here went fruitloops about every news article and just took it hook, line and sinker? Be careful and don't stab yourself with your own knife. I heard more bullshiite pontificating about that spill that turned out to be false, yet the Chinese will ultimately benefit with another huge reserve that is being held hostage by a certain politician and his party that has successfully brainwashed enough people to believe them. Persian Gulf wins again due to idiots on this soil.

And now I expect to hear this peak oil argument from someone(wonder who?). But I'm one who despised Al Gore when he was arguing the woes of R-12. Anyone remember that little money play by Al and his enviroqueers?

It was an early rambling of the progressives, pre- Beck, when no one seemed to have heard of them.

"It isn't the regs getting in the way, it is the fact that we don't have a bunch and what we do have is comparatively expensive to get out of the ground." Nothing is cheap in the end, but regs always get in the way. That's what they are intended to do. To the factoid you say that we don't have a bunch, I counter with, why is China coming to the Gulf?

Why don't they just kill all the muslims in Afghanistan and take that country over? There's plenty of oil there.

Our domestic policy might have more to do with it, and the leaders we elect have a lot, also.

And to end my little rant on a positive note and hopefully not too laughable, in Canada their are oilsands that are estimated to be in the Persian Gulf size category. Right now, you may be driving with some gasoline that trickled down from a company called Suncor Energy. In North America some of the hydrocarbons may be more expensive than others but they are already

coming out of the ground. Yes, and China is buying into them also.

Oh, and what about all the regs that stopped the building of refineries in this country? That cost us dearly during Katrina.

That little mishap in the Gulf has set us back decades. There is a lot more there than you think.

Hmm, laughable?

Edited February 25, 2011 by 6.8 AR

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I haven't seen those videos before, but I'm glad you posted them. It adds to my argument. Thanks!

[Lumber_Jack]

I haven't seen those videos before, but I'm glad you posted them. It adds to my argument. Thanks!

I dont buy everything Alex Jones spews, I hear him make wild assumptions off the top of his head just to further his points. However I do believe that we have the capapbility to be the largest Oil Supplier in the world. The first video only speaks to the North slope of Alaska, since then they have discovered and oil field as large or larger in the nortwest North Dakota and Eastern Monatana. Not to mention its believed to be light sweet crude, which takes less rifining than other types. Its there we just have to go get it. We are at least 50 years away from truely using alternative fuels as a sustainable energy source, if we dont get more oil in the mean time, we are headed for tough times.

PS I am extremely skeptical about Lindsey Williams consistantly unamed sources. A few names and other first hand accounts would go a long way. This "for their protection" shiite is gettin old. If its that important, let's hear it. but i still believe whe have LOTS of oil, on and off-shore

Edited February 25, 2011 by Lumber_Jack

[RobertNashville]

I've been avoiding this thread somewhat simply because as a certified car nut, talking about $5/gallon gasoline is really depressing. However, it's Friday...nice outdoor shooting weather predicted for tomorrow so I'm in a good enough mood that I think I can talk about it without getting too depressed.

Predicting the pump price of gasoline is akin to predicting what interest rates will do...there are so many variables that almost any prediction is as "good" ans any other. I'm reasonably sure we'll see prices hitting or even exceeding $5/gallon by late Spring/early Summer (in other words sometime in June of this year) and I've already decided to curtail a planned 7,000 mile Route 66 trip this year that I had been looking for (this would have been my third trip on the old route) and will wait until next year and hope for the best.

Where it goes after that is truly a crap shoot...with Obama and his ilk doing everything they can to curtail drilling and making us even more dependent on foreign oil as well as what seems to be an outright assault on our economy; I, unfortunately, wouldn't be surprised if gasoline hit $10/gallon (assuming it's available in the first place) within the next 12-18 months.

Edited February 25, 2011 by RobertNashville

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I only looked at the first video, so I can't speak to his views, but I am of the opinion that the world won't

end because of the quantity, tomorrow. We have plenty of it and the Peak Oil crowd is just like the hockey stick enviros that were caught in a huge, inconvenient lie. It amazes me that there are intelligent(?) people buying into these types of fear mongering.

But, yes, the price will go through the roof, mainly because there are those who want that. Obama has been

caught on videos stating this is exactly what he and his bunch desires.

[Mike.357]

unfortunately, wouldn't be surprised if gasoline hit $10/gallon (assuming it's available in the first place) within the next 12-18 months.

talk about a SHTF event. If that happens things won't be the same aournd this country any longer. Ten dollar gas and who can afford to commute to work?

Buy gas or buy food. you make the choice. Not that food would remain affordable for very long.

[mcurrier]

The founding fathers really have nothing to do with it.

N.S. Doesn't anyone recognize an analogy anymore. Guess not.

This nation has failed to embrace new technology and perfect it.

I disagree. Oil is plenteous and there is more than we could ever use in 2,000 years. If other technologies were economically viable, the market would bring them to bear and they would flourish without subsidies. But, alas, that is not the case. The cream of cost-effectiveness will always rise to the top without artificial help. Oil and coal are abundant. So is nuclear. France embraces nuclear. Why don't the Frenchy lovers want to imitate France on that scope?

Our answer has always been to search for more non-renewable energy sources, regardless of the environmental impact. Cheaper alternatives would exist if the businesses that hold the fate of our economy, out mere existance would not only invest in them, but start using them.

No need to search, we know where abundant supplies are, we are only hampered in getting it by socialist presidents and tree hugging hippies. Current drilling technologies are akin to laparoscopic surgery, very un-invasive and "environmentally friendly". Businesses invest in winners, not losers.

We hear about all this "well, if the libs and EPA would just let us drill in (fill in the blank).... or we need to strip mountain tops for cheap coal...or, or, or. Personally, I do not want to live in a wasteland just to satisfy out greedy needs or see future generations living in a desert. Fossil-based resources on this planet are a finite commodity. They aren't making any more.

No such thing as "fossil" fuels. It's been a catchy term for decades, but innacurate. 'Oil' does not come from decomposing dinosaurs. It is a naturally forming substance formed deep within the earth that is constantly being created. There is much more than an infinite supply.

[strickj]

How do you know that, mcurrier? Not trying to prove or disprove anything here. Just curious about how you know.

I've read both that oil is from fossils and that it is naturally forming. But seems that no one really knows for sure. It's all a theory.

What I have read universally is that there is no way to determine current quantities and no way to know how long it really takes to "make" more.

Back OT, I passed 3.25 today. That's up .11 cents in less then ten days at the same station. That's a penny a day. At 365 days a year, that would make it 6.90 by this time next year

[Garufa]

No such thing as "fossil" fuels. It's been a catchy term for decades, but innacurate. 'Oil' does not come from decomposing dinosaurs. It is a naturally forming substance formed deep within the earth that is constantly being created. There is much more than an infinite supply.

I would like to hear more on this. Please explain.

[Oh Shoot]

... There is much more than an infinite supply.

"More than infinite" is indeed a lot.

Oil deposits take millennia to form, the world consumes daily what took thousands of years to create.

The upside down pyramid of population vs resources is tipping. There are way too many of us, and due to technology and massive duplication of skill sets , individual effort is less needed and hence less valued and hence less rewarded. It matters not how much of any natural resource remains, when what remains costs too much for the average wage earner to afford.That's environmental economics, and we soon won't be able to pay the piper.

It's quite naive to assert that leftish US politics sums up the problem or that absolute reckless freedom to drill anywhere on US soil or in US waters would alleviate it for long, if at all.

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

...No such thing as "fossil" fuels. It's been a catchy term for decades, but innacurate. 'Oil' does not come from decomposing dinosaurs. I...

Not "dinosaurs", but biomass in general. Mostly plankton and algae.

The "abiogenic" theory of non organic oil creation seems to be mostly fringe thought anymore.

- OS

Edited February 26, 2011 by OhShoot

[Guest Michael.G]

speaking of gas prices...Anyone got a Prius they want to trade for a 09 Nissan Titan?

*crickets*

anyone....................?

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

Price for 87 is between $3.19 and $3.29 here on Donelson Pike, north of I-40.

[Guest Tiny G]

Still seeing lots of cars heading to work on the freeway . . one person in each car, all going to the same place. .

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That will change, along with our buying habits, and about every other habit that oil influences. This great

ethanol kick the liberals pushed caused our food prices to climb and that will hurt, also. Obama was fully

onboard with the ethanol kick. But, I recall hearing something that old Al Gore spewed admitting ethanol

wouldn't really help with global warming. Oops, global warming. Oh, that pesky carbon dioxide had to get

thrown in there. Now why did I put that in there? All these things tend to be linked together with some

version of liberal politics through the years.

Those darned regulations!

Sometimes I think if only people would pay attention to what our elected officials were actually doing and

not take for granted what our news media feeds us on a daily basis. Our kids are taught stuff in schools

that are theory and not proven as fact, but I'll only use global warming for that one.

When you are fed information that "kind of" has some truth to it, but doesn't quite smell right, shouldn't you

go a little deeper into it before you start assuming it to be fact.

There's a lot of BS (yes, Barbara Streisand:D) out there.

And Hell, it's all for the children!

[Guest mosinon]

That will change, along with our buying habits, and about every other habit that oil influences. This great

ethanol kick the liberals pushed caused our food prices to climb and that will hurt, also. Obama was fully

onboard with the ethanol kick. But, I recall hearing something that old Al Gore spewed admitting ethanol

wouldn't really help with global warming. Oops, global warming. Oh, that pesky carbon dioxide had to get

thrown in there. Now why did I put that in there? All these things tend to be linked together with some

version of liberal politics through the years.

Those darned regulations!

Sometimes I think if only people would pay attention to what our elected officials were actually doing and

not take for granted what our news media feeds us on a daily basis. Our kids are taught stuff in schools

that are theory and not proven as fact, but I'll only use global warming for that one.

When you are fed information that "kind of" has some truth to it, but doesn't quite smell right, shouldn't you

go a little deeper into it before you start assuming it to be fact.

There's a lot of BS (yes, Barbara Streisand:D) out there.

And Hell, it's all for the children!

Oh yeah, the ethanol thing was a boon for farmers. Well, not cow farmers, but corn farmers. It did drive the food prices up but mostly because of supply and demand. AS more corn was demanded for ethanol the price for corn went up. Ethanol was demanded because oil was expensive. So, when everyone tells you a ethanol is cost competitive at 50 bucks a barrel you know the reality that it isn't until oil hits 90 bucks a barrel that ethanol is actually competitive.

I was pretty pissed when my kid was taught newton's theory of gravity.

Edited February 27, 2011 by mosinon

[Motasyco]

talk about a SHTF event. If that happens things won't be the same aournd this country any longer. Ten dollar gas and who can afford to commute to work?

Buy gas or buy food. you make the choice. Not that food would remain affordable for very long.

No reflection on you, Mike.357, I'm sure you wouldn't wish a SHTF event on us, but me, well, is it wrong to dream of a SHTF event? I keep thinking that if the SHTF, I'm going to have an advantage over most, as would, probably, many here on TGO. Just thinking out loud. Am I alone with this?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I guess you should have been, mosinon. Sums it all up, doesn't it?

[Guest mosinon]

I guess you should have been, mosinon. Sums it all up, doesn't it?

perhaps, but I find the only people I like to talk to are the ones that disagree with me. Well, that isn't quite true. The people I like to talk to the most are the ones that tend to disagree with and have a brain.

Others, of course, feel differently, they just want to hear the stuff they agree with. Which is fine. But I think legitimate disagreement is far more enlightening, for the readers, and for entertainment value, than just lock step agreement.

This pervasive notion that you can't like or get along with someone who disagrees with you is petty and childish. I don't know much but I know I am willing to learn. People have changed my mind before (like it means something) and people will change my mind again. Had to bust my old box of books to read Atlas Shrugged again thanks to you.

I don't see disagreement as a big thing.

[Mike.357]

I just wish the damn .gov would stop ***** footing around. They can pretend all they want that we are in the middle east (militarily) to be savior's or whatever. Just take their damn oil and get it over with. Of course in a sense we are taking it. Just those who benefit from it are not us hoople heads who need to consume it to get by in life, but rather those who are wealthy and stand to get wealthier from higher prices.

Oil prices are just another way for the man to keep his foot on our necks.

[leroy]

Food for thought:__________________

I propose we vacate the middle east and make a radical isolationist decision to run our vehicles on ethanol. We can stimulate the economy by building ethanol processing plants and raising corn and soybeans. We also can get the benefit of telling the rest of the world to grow up, take care of their own interests, and we get the supreme joy of telling the arab pirates of the OPEC nations to starve.

We can also do the most important thing i think we should do as a nation and people; we can stop the hemmoraging of the bravest and most dedicated among us by stopping the sending of our military folks to fight in foreign wars with one hand tied behind their backs to bleed and die for a bunch of thugs that view us as mercenaries and think they can buy and sell us as a people like cattle.

If we have any corn or soybeans left over, we can sell it back to them at a base parity price of one peck of corn or soybeans to a barrel of crude oil. I, for one, would be more than willing to give about $4 per gallon for motor fuel if we adopted this philosophy.

Whadda ya think!???

leroy the isolationist

Edited February 27, 2011 by leroy

[Mike.357]

burning our food is not smart, period.

[DaveTN]

Whadda ya think!???

I think there is more oil than there is food.

Alaska, the Gulf, and now even some of the Northwest states contain more oil than we could ever need.

The price of gas isn’t about the availability of oil; it’s about monopolies and money. Let’s pick one oil company and put them out of business. What do you think will happen to the price of gas then?

I’m not an isolationist but I am a protectionist. This is on us and nothing is going to change until we step up to the plate.

[leroy]

I think Dave is exactly right. See post #98 ^^^^^.

....The price of gas isn’t about the availability of oil; it’s about monopolies and money.....

Take the time to dig out and read "War is a Racket" by Smedley Butler.

alibris link here: Alibris: war is a racket, butler. By the way, I paid about

$6.00 bucks for my book; not $44!! Keep watching, they will get cheaper. Dave's point is exactly the point that Butler made in 1935. Interestin aint it?!

leroy

[Guest 6.8 AR]

perhaps, but I find the only people I like to talk to are the ones that disagree with me. Well, that isn't quite true. The people I like to talk to the most are the ones that tend to disagree with and have a brain.

Others, of course, feel differently, they just want to hear the stuff they agree with. Which is fine. But I think legitimate disagreement is far more enlightening, for the readers, and for entertainment value, than just lock step agreement.

This pervasive notion that you can't like or get along with someone who disagrees with you is petty and childish. I don't know much but I know I am willing to learn. People have changed my mind before (like it means something) and people will change my mind again. Had to bust my old box of books to read Atlas Shrugged again thanks to you.

I don't see disagreement as a big thing.

Nor do I. In fact I agree with so much of what you write, I scare myself. I was never very good with repartee,

but my mother was an expert.

And I thought this was because I forgot to get you those recipes for homemade mayo.