Domestic dogs

[Guest GunTroll]

So whats all of this legal jargon mean... Tennessee Consolidated Dog Laws

I have been asked by a landowner to eradicate dogs on his land. He is a cattle rancher and has about 600 acres and many , many cows. I'm not knowledge able about cattle but he told me he is a cow/calf operation??? Anyways he claims the domestic dogs are his problem. Coyotes don't seem to bother his calf's or cows. The domestic dogs seem to sort of sport kill his calf's or severely injure. He claims they are wild for he is in drop off central.

My question is, am I legal to shoot roaming un-collard dogs whether they are bothering cattle or not, and collard dogs that are bothering cattle here in TN? A dog doesn't understand borders or trespassing, I know. I have been told to shoot all dogs without collars and collared dogs that are bothering cattle. Never mind the would you could you part of this equastion....am I legal?

Let me also say I love dogs and have had on most of my life. Lost one the other year to old age and it tore me up. I have passed on four dogs so far on this particular property. None were bothering cows and a few had collars. Perhaps I'm too soft.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Hi GunTroll

I don't know the answer to your legal questions, but when I was a kid back in the 1950's in nowhere Alabama, wild dog packs were a hazard kinda like wolf packs. At that time and place, people did not routinely spay/neuter dogs and it wasn't uncommon for abandoned and stray dogs to pack hunt for subsistence in forested areas.

As best I recall these packs had little fear of man and could be a hazard to humans as well as livestock. With survival of the fittest, the tiny sweet dogs didn't survive in the wild and the average wild dog was pretty big and mean. I had some relatives who lived on a big remote piece of woods, adjoining a big national forest, who considered the wild dogs a hazard.

[johnnychimpo]

You can't just shoot them on sight, although it would be easier. Only if the livestock are in immanent danger of death from the dogs can you kill them.

If one of them is a black malti-poo hollar at me first, I'm just down the road from you.

The bold type section below applies to what your asking.

39-14-205. Intentional killing of animal. —

(a) (1) (A) It is an offense to knowingly and unlawfully kill the animal of another without the owner's effective consent.

( A violation of subdivision (a)(1)(A) is theft of property, graded according to the value of the animal, and punished in accordance with § 39-14-105.

(2) In determining the value of a police dog, fire dog, search and rescue dog, service animal or police horse under § 39-14-105, the court shall consider the value of the police dog, fire dog, search and rescue dog, service animal or police horse as both the cost of the animal and any specialized training the animal received.

( A person is justified in killing the animal of another if the person acted under a reasonable belief that the animal was creating an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury to that person or another or an imminent danger of death to an animal owned by that person. A person is not justified in killing the animal of another if at the time of the killing the person is trespassing upon the property of the owner of the animal. The justification for killing the animal of another authorized by this subsection ( shall not apply to a person who, while engaging in or attempting to escape from criminal conduct, kills a police dog that is acting in its official capacity. In that case the provisions of subsection (a) shall apply to the person.

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1; 1996, ch. 927, §§ 1, 2; 2004, ch. 957, § 1; 2007, ch. 466, § 1; 2008, ch. 1172, § 1.]

[whiskey]

Look out Troll! They are coming right for you!!!!

How remote is this farm? Do they make a wounded calf call for the electronic predator call?

Seriously, I would hesitate shooting dogs unless they were attacking the cows.

[Guest GunTroll]

Look out Troll! They are coming right for you!!!!

How remote is this farm? Do they make a wounded calf call for the electronic predator call?

Seriously, I would hesitate shooting dogs unless they were attacking the cows.

They do have distress calf sounds. This farm/ranch is remote. None would be the wiser.

As to the legal ease in bold.... My question would be what defines or identifies a owned dog in TN? A collar with or without tags? If it can't be identified as being owned by another.....its a wild dog just like coyotes and subject to death on sight...right?

[Guest BEARMAN]

Hey Gun Troll, have you not heard of the 3-S method of livestock depredation control...Shoot, Shovel & Shut-up...

It's the method most livestock farmers live by in the country, however, I know what my neighbors dogs look like, and would let them know that their dog/dogs are creating havoc with my livestock; before I take them for a dirt nap; (the dogs, not my neighbors )...YMMV

[Dolomite_supafly]

If the killing the dogs is what it takes to keep the property owners animals safe then what is the problem. I have shot at dogs on several occasions for chasing animals of mine. I had even called local LE about it and was told to kill any animals that were acting aggressive.

I think if the farmer can document a few cases of the dogs killing or harassing his livestock you shouldn't have a problem. Have him take pictures or call LE to report the problem so it will be on record. And if someone says you killed their dog you will have the law on your side and they can be held accountable for the owner's lost livestock which would likely be a substantial amount of money.

Dolomite

[Guest adamoxtwo]

Personally I think it's more of a Moral question. If a game warden ever witnessed the act I'm pretty sure they would understand and look the other way (if you were able to explain and show evidence....did the landowner take pictures?). However, to be safe I would call the game warden in your area and just ask them. They are human and in most cases hunters themselves. They understand the Moral vs Legal debate very well. For instance. If a man has a family and he cannot provide for them is it OK for them to hunt and kill a deer to feed them outside of the Deer Season? Legal says no, but I don't know a Warden would would deny them the ability to feed their family.

[Guest GunTroll]

The three S's it is then.

adamoxtwo......we all might have to eat ...dogs one day but not today.

[Guest josh123]

i was told by a game warden i could shoot dogs on my deer hunting property only of they didnt have a collar..if they had a collar with tags or without, obviously its not wild..a wild dog cant put a collar on itself..

i personally have 3 dogs and the only time i put there tags on is when i walk them.. i just cant get used to the clinking around noise..

if it were me id shoot the non collared ones and pass on the ones with collars with/without tags at least at first..if they start showing up regularly then sure i guess id shoot..but thats just me

[Guest adamoxtwo]

I've had dog in Korea.....Greasy, but not bad:puke:

[Guest buttonhook]

I killed two pit bulls a couple of years ago at 4:30 am...they were had killed two of our hogs (in our barn) and turned on my wife when she went to feed them. They had collars on and the owner had to pay me for damages (they were pissed! .

The police were called and they thanked me for killing them (in front of the owners) so they didn't have to do the lethal action paperwork. The way it was explained to me is as long as I was protecting my life, my families life, or my property then it was justified and perfectly legal to do. So in order to kill them legally the would need to be "harrassing" the live stock.

My policy is a little different...I dont go around killing everything I see (I own dogs also) If i know the owners then...

Step one: I will try to nicely explain to them that the dogs/cats are causing problems and they need to take care of it.

Step two: If they dont take care of it then I follow the rule of the three S's.

If wild or not wearing tags then skip step one.........

Only reason the police came this last time was that at 4:30 am four blasts from a shotgun tends to work better than an alarm clock and someone else called about gun fire!

It took the police several hours to find the collar which had been blown into the hay loft...I didn't even know they had collars on when I shot them. there was just alot of pink nylon fuzz everywhere couldnt figure out where it came from...now I know. It's amazing what a couple of 12 gauge slugs will do at 10 feet away

Edited February 13, 2011 by buttonhook

[DaveS]

I can only tell you what happened to me. I was deer hunting one time and was agressed by two mangy un-collared dogs. I was backed against the side of my truck...three shots later, and two dogs are dead. I'm a mile from the nearest house. A truck comes down the road, passes me, stops and backs up. The man driving the truck says...those are my dogs! To make a long story short, the guy calls the sherriff. Game warden shows up too. The charge: unlawful killing of domestic animals. $200.00 bail, 1000.00 in attorney fees and $250.00 dollars in court cost. It was later dismissed, but I'm still out that money. My message to you? You might want to think twice about shooting dogs that YOU or SOMEONE ELSE thinks are strays. Just my advice friend....

[Guest ADAM]

If the dogs are chasing your cows on your property then yes shoot everyone of them, but since it is not your cows or your property I'd leave it be. One question why doesnt the farmer take care of the problem his/her self? just wondering.

[Guest GunTroll]

If I had to take a stab at it for why he doesn't do the dirty work himself, so to speak, is.......tending to cows is labor intensive when you have up wards of say a thousand head and 600 acres to patrol. He has three hands, a son, and himself to do it all. I'm the one with the desire to go out there at 4:30am or so and sit in the cold making squeaky noises in 7 degree weather. Or at least it was that cold last time I went out. Glad we are on a rebound with temps and sun. He figured if I'm out there I can help him out. He stated " no collar...shoot on sight. Collar and harassing cows/calfs... shoot on sight" I'm sure lots have fallen (dogs) to him and his when they can. They shot a yote last time I was there so they are on the watch out as well.

I believe the question I asked has been answered several post ago (thanks). This wasn't a moral/ethical question as I stated in my OP.

case closed in my book.

[memphismason]

Since the Original Poster deemed his question answered, then I will close this thread, unless he asks for it to be reopened.