2 Dead Over Stolen Radiator

[PackinMama]

Just because abortion is legal, does that make it right? Are you guys telling me that you agree with the laws that our ****ed up legal system makes??? Doesn't appear that way to me when we talk about the gun laws on this forum.

[PackinMama]

good point...I gotta admit, I looked right past the age of the fetus....my apologies...for some reason I was thinking 8 day...

Apology accepted Canyn.....thank you for seeing my point

[saintsfanbrian]

Ok guys, I was really trying to hold back and keep my opinion to myself about this.........but I just can't do it!!! Abortion is right up there with gun rights with me. Unfortunately (and VERY immorally), abortion is legal..........but NOT when the baby is 8 months old (in the womb)!!!!!!! Are you guys crazy??? An unborn child can be be born at 8 months and be a perfectly healthy and ALIVE little baby.....heck, even preemies can make it as early as 6 months! Life begins in the womb......not after they're born!!! This ignorant, irresponsible, idiotic man killed two LIVING people and should be held responsible for taking both of those lives and charged with two counts of murder!!!!

Congratulations, Mama. You saw my point exactly. In many states Partial Birth Abortions were/are legal. I have a huge problem with this. I too agree that life begins at conception. My point was simply that if the legal system can say it is okay for a mother to choose to abort her unborn baby (especially out of convenience sake (Madonna)) then a person should not be charged with murder if the fetus dies. Double edged sword and they can't have it both ways though they often do.

My wife KNEW the day after our son was conceived that she was pregnant.

[Marswolf]

Folks, I think most of you have your head up your butt.

The person(s) killed were voluntarily in the presence of a crime. If this had happened in Texas, the shooter would have been perfectly within his rights to shoot someone trying to steal his property. I think that is proper and right. I wish Tennessee Code read that way.

I think the shooter deserves a medal for fighting back against thieves.

[PackinMama]

Folks, I think most of you have your head up your butt.

The person(s) killed were voluntarily in the presence of a crime. If this had happened in Texas, the shooter would have been perfectly within his rights to shoot someone trying to steal his property. I think that is proper and right. I wish Tennessee Code read that way.

I think the shooter deserves a medal for fighting back against thieves.

Wow!!! Marswolf, You actually think it's ok to shoot someone for just stealing your property?? I don't want to p.o. a Super Moderator ......but I think your the one with your head up your butt. I'm pretty sure most of the responsible gun owners on this forum would agree that using your weapon is only justifiable if life was in clear and present danger. Anyone care to back me up here??

[PackinMama]

Congratulations, Mama. You saw my point exactly. In many states Partial Birth Abortions were/are legal. I have a huge problem with this. I too agree that life begins at conception. My point was simply that if the legal system can say it is okay for a mother to choose to abort her unborn baby (especially out of convenience sake (Madonna)) then a person should not be charged with murder if the fetus dies. Double edged sword and they can't have it both ways though they often do.

My wife KNEW the day after our son was conceived that she was pregnant.

Brian, good to see that you're opposed to abortion too.....you had me worried there When I was pregnant with my son, I knew (or at least had a feeling) within a week. When I started being able to feel him kick, move around, hiccup.......it was absolutely amazing.......to know and feel that I had a living person growing inside me.....it was very obvious that he was ALIVE in there. I just can't understand people that don't believe that life begins at conception

[Marswolf]

Wow!!! Marswolf, You actually think it's ok to shoot someone for just stealing your property??

Yep. A thief has given up his right to protection under the law, IMHO.

My head is right where it should be. Where is yours?

Guess I, and the Texas legislature and Governor don't agree with you. Guess we are all oh-so-stupid?

BTW, abortion has nothing to do with this. This is a matter of crime and proper proper application of protection from it.

Edited February 12, 2008 by Marswolf

[Fallguy]

Folks, I think most of you have your head up your butt.

The person(s) killed were voluntarily in the presence of a crime. If this had happened in Texas, the shooter would have been perfectly within his rights to shoot someone trying to steal his property. I think that is proper and right. I wish Tennessee Code read that way.

I think the shooter deserves a medal for fighting back against thieves.

I 1000% agree!!!! ...and you beat me to the punch about that it would have been legal in TX.

Now do I feel that a human life is worth a radiator, a TV, a utility trailer..the list goes on... No, but I don't make that choice, the thief makes that choice when he decides to steal.

I truly believe over time thefts would decrease if the thief thought they might be legally shot for doing so.

As far as aboirtion and two counts of murder....I am against aborition..that is why I am against the double standard that it is ok for the mom to kill the baby, but if an outside person does it, it is murder. I will admint I doubt even the mother could get a partial-birth abortion at 8 months.

[Guest Engloid]

I 1000% agree!!!! ...and you beat me to the punch about that it would have been legal in TX.

Sex with kids is legal in some places too, but we don't advocate that because it's legal somewhere else.

[VERO1]

I moved recently from FL. (Yeah,yeah I know!) In Florida, the boyfriend ,or whatever he was, could also be charged with murder for committing a crime that results in a death. Do similar exist here?

[Fallguy]

Sex with kids is legal in some places too, but we don't advocate that because it's legal somewhere else.

Fair enough....

But "I" do advocate, would vote for, would support and believe in the the ability to use deadly force to protect property!

But considering how hard it is to get the unreasonable restrictions removed in for HCP holder's I doubt I would ever see a bill to allow deadly force for the protection of property in my lifetime.

[Marswolf]

Consensual sex is legal in some states at 16. They ain't kids there. Just to point this out.

If this turns into a religio-centric thread, posts will disappear. Hey folks, it's a gun board, not a religion board.

Back to gun stuff, I think that when you are committing crimes that are universally condemned, like murder, theft, etc., that you should be considered an outlaw and subjet to whatever happens to you.

[Guest tjbert47]

Folks, I think most of you have your head up your butt.

The person(s) killed were voluntarily in the presence of a crime. If this had happened in Texas, the shooter would have been perfectly within his rights to shoot someone trying to steal his property. I think that is proper and right. I wish Tennessee Code read that way.

I think the shooter deserves a medal for fighting back against thieves.

Absolutely correct. Sad for the unborne child but the mother made her choice. If anything the others in the car should be charged with the death.

Tom in TN

[Marswolf]

Absolutely correct. Sad for the unborne child but the mother made her choice. If anything the others in the car should be charged with the death.

Tom in TN

+1 etcetera to make this long enough.

[Mike.357]

Mama I don't know how you thought I was endorsing abortion. I do not have a dog in that race. Simply stating that abortion kills just the same and there are no criminal charges for it.

I agree with Mars that it ought to be legal to shoot to protect property. Shoot the hell out of them I say! Those types make their choices. My properties come to me from my hard work. To hell with anyone thats wants to take the easy way out and steal from me. Those in the car, assuming they knew what was going on are just as guilty as the

SOB that jumped out and did the stealing.

[Guest TNDixieGirl]

I have to agree that we should have the right to protect our property just like Texans do. I don't bust my ass 9 hours a day to buy the necessities in life just to have some jerk come take it out from under my nose and get away with it. You wanna act like an inbred thug, I'll treat you like one. Damn skippy robberies and theft would go down if the idiots actually saw dire consequences over it. Remember what used to happen in the good ole days before all the politically correct BS??? If you stole from your neighbor....they hung your sorry butt from the nearest tree!!! Didn't have many repeat criminals I'd bet.

And that mother should be the one charged with murder since she put the unborn child, PLUS a 14 month old child, at a crime scene. She was, after all, driving the getaway car. But oh noooooooo, the bleeding hearts are making HER out to bethe victim.

Rant off.

[PackinMama]

I apologize for getting a little heated about the abortion thing guys.....I think I took what was said a little out of context. That's just a very touchy subject with me. Thank you for claryfying the point you all were actually trying to make......I read the comments over and now see where you were going with what you were saying

Now.....back to the the subject of when using deadly force is justified.........

I'm certainly not defending thieves in any way.....stealing is wrong and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law....but IMHO, it's not a crime that should be punishable by death. I've been a victim of thievery several times, and in all cases have never wished them dead. Definitely wouldn't have minded beating the crap out of them though

[Guest jackdog]

If someone breaks the law by stealing your property, I think you should be able to shoot them. It will stop a lot of thieves. lower the crime rate, be cheaper than court cost for the tax payers and help with the jail over crowding problem. Shooting at a vehicle driving is not very bright in my book.

[Guest Engloid]

If someone breaks the law by stealing your property, I think you should be able to shoot them. It will stop a lot of thieves. lower the crime rate, be cheaper than court cost for the tax payers and help with the jail over crowding problem. Shooting at a vehicle driving is not very bright in my book.

We have laws to protect INNOCENT people.... and if we allow the average gun owner to be judge, jury, and executioner, there will be many INNOCENT people killed wrongly. It's not about the thief you want to kill over a $5 lawn ornament, it's about the situations where innocent people will be mistakenly killed by some trigger happy redneck that mistakenly thinks somebody stole from him.

That's what you guys don't seem to understand.

[dralarms]

If you are stealing something from OUTSIDE my home, then fine take it, I got camera's and the cops will find you, if you are taking something (or attempting to) from inside my home, then as far as I'm concerned youare there to do me or my family harm since I don't know what you have brought with you or found while prowling through my stuff. However I still have a real problem with this guy shooting while they were pulling away and got the driver instead of the bugger that stole the stupid junk. ( I say junk, but if it was a rad. for a big rig or heav y equipment, they can cost well over 1000.00).

If the had hit the actual thief then fine good job, but he hit an innocent (the baby was brought there by force) and for that he needs to be charged at least in the baby's death. That's the way I feel and no I'm not saying I'm sorry about it.

[Guest TNDixieGirl]

Let me clarify my position, I agree that shooting into a moving vehicle was absolutely stupid. I think more along the lines of what dralarms just said. If you add what he said, to what I already said, it explains my opinion of the matter perfectly. And I'm not sorry about that either.

[Im Neero]

Following that line of reasoning I think one count of manslaughter would be more appropriate than two counts of murder.

[Fallguy]

We have laws to protect INNOCENT people.... and if we allow the average gun owner to be judge, jury, and executioner, there will be many INNOCENT people killed wrongly. It's not about the thief you want to kill over a $5 lawn ornament, it's about the situations where innocent people will be mistakenly killed by some trigger happy redneck that mistakenly thinks somebody stole from him.

That's what you guys don't seem to understand.

You are NOT innocent if you are on my land taking my property!! If you are not on my land taking my stuff, I will not shoot you.

How many innocent people would be killed following that logic?

You have absolutely no right, privilege or anything to be on my land without my conncent...and damn sure don't have any right to take something that doesn't belong to you...even it if it $0.99 lollipop reflector.

[Guest jackdog]

I was considering a more substantial theft than a lawn ornament. I am not stupid nor am I trigger happy. But the only way to curtail this behavior is by force. The court system is little more than a revolving door.

[et45]

It would depend on the situation whether I would shoot or not.I trust people would use common sense in making a decision.