Two by Campfield RE carry on college/univ campus

[DaveTN]

looking at screen names I'm reluctant to answer that, .

I didn’t mean what’s his name; I meant is this a campus cop, a faculty member, the President of the University or the Easter Bunny?

He shouldn’t have said it if he doesn’t want anyone to know who he is. If he’s a decision maker you aren’t helping by keeping his name out of it. If he’s not a decision maker no one cares what his opinion is.

[Guest coldblackwind]

The meeting was put on by the chief of campus police, a seargent, and a lieutenant, this particular comment was the seargent, who seemed to do most of the talking.

[ffr1910]

I was present for one of the video presentations of what I call "Stop, Drop, and Die" that has been referred to at MTSU. I stood up and asked the question of when will MTSU allow college carry like TX seems poised to do and other states already allow. I was the only one who had what it took to stand up in our meeting-Bill

[Worriedman]

Rep. Andy Holt's Bill 2016, which authorizes full-time faculty at a public college to carry a firearm on such campus if they have a handgun carry permit, and amended at the request of Rep. Eddie Bass to add a requirement for an additional 2 hour training session and requires the Staff person to keep the weapon on their person, not stored in campus, approved in sub-committee and sent to full committee.

Buddy Peaster, Chief of Police of MTSU speaking for the TN Association of Chiefs of Police and University Campus Chiefs of Police, believes that allowing HCP carry will make "things worse for us" by allowing HCP carry by full time staff. He believes "Just on the qualifications of being able to carry in this state, it does not to me appear to be a good threshold by which to measure whether someone should be allowed to carry on the premises of a College or University." He also states under questioning by Rep. Barret Rich, that his suggestion for redress of assault or rape is to try and "escape" to paraphrase his response.

Do I misunderstand that an Officer in uniform, apparently in the official performance of their duty as a tax payer paid employee, attempting to affect the outcome of a political issue, and that they are not a direct legislator responsible for the issue, might be committing Official Oppression?

Re. Barret Rich stood firm in favor of the Bill with his line of questioning. Rep. Holt did a good job of laying out his points, and deserves our thanks.

At 22:08 for video.

House-Judiciary-Sub Committee

[pegasusrider]

I look at this bill as discriminatory as it is currently written. The colleges are employing lots of adjunct faculty, part time staff, and "temp" employees on contract to save money. Many work full time hours and perform the same jobs as full time employees and are exposed to the same dangers. If "full time" is removed I would have no objections and think it would be a good bill.

[Guest mds3d]

I think I am going to write an e-mail to Buddy...

My brother is an Adjunct (full-time) professor at MTSU and an HCP holder. He was in the BAS buliding at the time of the bomb-threat, and while his weapon would not have benefited him so much if that threat had been real, it does prove that the MTSU campus police cannot "protect" everyone all the time.

[DaveTN]

Do I misunderstand that an Officer in uniform, apparently in the official performance of their duty as a tax payer paid employee, attempting to affect the outcome of a political issue, and that they are not a direct legislator responsible for the issue, might be committing Official Oppression?

No.

While I don’t agree with his ideas, he is charged with maintaining security at the school. If he thinks having (What he feels to be) unqualified people-carrying guns at a school causes a security risk; he is free to state his opinion.

I think this will come down to what the parents think; and I think we all know how that will end.

[Guest 270win]

It is sad to hear this MTSU campus security head's advice to sexual assault victims. I think that the state law should be changed so that the handgun carry permit is a defense to prosecution, just like students who are members of the school shooting team or ROTC while on campus. I believe i'm just as qualified in TN to carry on school grounds as I am when I cross into Alabama.

Wasn't MTSU where an honest guy got caught with a couple long guns in his vehicle and a handgun in his pocket where he didn't know he was on school grounds and the bright lightbulbs at the school security slammed the guy with FELONY charges? The poor guy was put through hell by MTSU security? I got my opinion that MTSU security, especially their security director, are about qualified enough to be issued a maglite and that is it if that is their sorry discretion when it comes to those with handgun carry permits.

[macville]

Was at UTK yesterday at the Law College and walking out the door there was a sign that said something like, "be smart after dark, walk in pairs." All I could do was laugh that the school's "solution" for safety was being in pairs instead of getting the law changed so law abiding students could carry useful defensive tools.

[Guest Pineapple Devil]

Was at UTK yesterday at the Law College and walking out the door there was a sign that said something like, "be smart after dark, walk in pairs." All I could do was laugh that the school's "solution" for safety was being in pairs instead of getting the law changed so law abiding students could carry useful defensive tools.

there is about to be something on volunteer tv at noon about "students banning together to keep guns off campus". i'm anxious to see what it says

[macville]

there is about to be something on volunteer tv at noon about "students banning together to keep guns off campus". i'm anxious to see what it says

There are already two articles about that on the KNS website. This is their entire argument (UT admin and students), "we would feel unsafe." Yep, the supposedly "enlighten" profs and students entire argument is based on "feeling safe." It is quite mind blowing that not only the professors believe that is a perfectly logical argument, but that the students have accepted it.

If feeling safe = actually safe, does feeling richer = me being rich?

[Guest Pineapple Devil]

here is a youtube video of the UT "police chief" responding to questions about the bill.

[Guest Pineapple Devil]

here is a youtube video of the UT "police chief" responding to questions about the bill.

we really need to get on top of this guys.

[Erik88]

even if this bill passes I have a feeling that UT and other schools will just "post" every building and/or prohibit professors from carrying. I doubt many professors actually WANT to carry and even if they do they probably won't risk it considering it would cost them their job.

But it is a step in the right direction. The most frustrating part for me as a student is the fact that I can't even leave my gun in my car.

[DaveTN]

I’m really torn on this issue. On one hand I know the only way to stop a school shooter (or any mass murderer) is to kill them. On the other hand I think it is far more likely a student would encounter an untrained HCP holder doing something stupid than encountering a school shooter.

I could feel better about this if it required some real training. I’m guessing Campus Security can’t carry on campus without some real firearms training. So why would anyone think it is okay for a Professor or any other HCP holder to do it?

Just thinking out loud….

[Oh Shoot]

I’m really torn on this issue. On one hand I know the only way to stop a school shooter (or any mass murderer) is to kill them. On the other hand I think it is far more likely a student would encounter an untrained HCP holder doing something stupid than encountering a school shooter.

I could feel better about this if it required some real training. I’m guessing Campus Security can’t carry on campus without some real firearms training. So why would anyone think it is okay for a Professor or any other HCP holder to do it?

Just thinking out loud….

On the third hand, why is a 21-65 year old with a HCP, whether he be student, teacher, or staff, any more dangerous on a college campus than anywhere else?

- OS

[macville]

Crap, wrote a reply and it crapped out.

To sum it up. Training is great, but you have to have a crap load to really stick (think months every day, IE what the military does via boot camp.) Just because cops have had 10, even 20 hours of training means crap when TSHTF. So where the rubber meets the road, most permit holders, in my opinion, are probably about the same level as cops are in situations.

Also, what is so hard about finding a target, noticing what's behind it, aiming and firing. We aren't talking about permit holders assaulting a room. Permit holders haven't seemed to have an issue with lack of training in shootings outside schools, so what is so special about schools?

Something else to consider about training. Okay, if a permit holder doesn't have training, then why would an active shooter have any training unless they are ex-militrary? Seems like most of the school shooters are crazy students and not really adults who have been able to get training. The only reason the lack of training hasn't hurt them is that there has been no force in these schools to stop them. It's easy to kill a lot of people even though you handle a firearm poorly IF NO ONE IS SHOOTING BACK AT YOU!

Consider that even if you have untrained people with firearms, it makes the cost of robbing someone or going crazy much risker. Hard to make a huge statement if you only take one person with you before you are stopped. Disparity of force counts for a lot. Make it much risker for a shooter, probably going to have less shooters. How many firearm stores have been robbed in broad daylight? VERY FEW and most of the stories I've seen ended up with a dead robber. Just food for thought.

[Guest Pineapple Devil]

if people only knew what little "training" security is actually mandated to go through

[ffr1910]

On the third hand, why is a 21-65 year old with a HCP, whether he be student, teacher, or staff, any more dangerous on a college campus than anywhere else?

- OS

AMEN! -MTSU Prof ffr1910

[DaveTN]

To sum it up.

So where the rubber meets the road, most permit holders, in my opinion, are probably about the same level as cops are in situations.

Do you have any Police training?

[DaveTN]

AMEN! -MTSU Prof ffr1910

Someone at work told me they didn’t think MTSU security was armed. Is that true?

How does the faculty feel about this from your point of view?

Give us the scoop on what the people that would be allowed to carry/or not are saying.

Have the parents been asked what they think or been given an oppertunity to speak yet?

[Guest mds3d]

Dave,

MTSU has very few security officer. Most of them are volunteer students ( usually CJ majors) and are only around at night. MTSU also has a fully accredited police force. The security officers are not armed ( mace maybe) The police definatly are armed.

[macville]

Do you have any Police training?

No, but I know how much training the Police have here in Knoxville, and it isn't that much. Yes, a little is better than none, but let's not pretend that all police are lightyears ahead of permit holders in training.

[JayC]

MTSU Police Department are sworn LEO's, and I'm pretty sure POST certified just like most other police officers in the state... They are armed, including rifles in their vehicles.

Why do the parents opinions matter at a college? Last time I checked, the vast majority of students going to college are adults.

As for police training, vs civilian training, I will again point out that trained police officers are 5 times more likely to kill an innocent person in a justified shotting, than a regular citizen is in a legal self defense shooting. That is all citizens, so, the vast majority have no formal firearms training at all.

Police officers have a tough job in an active shooter situation... like fire fighters they must run towards the shooter and engage them... On the other hand, HCP holders would mostly use it for defense, and would not go looking for the shooter... it's a lot easier to identify a target in that situation. The amount of training required to hold a 'fatal funnel' is a lot less than the amount of training required to clear a building safely.

Someone at work told me they didn’t think MTSU security was armed. Is that true?

How does the faculty feel about this from your point of view?

Give us the scoop on what the people that would be allowed to carry/or not are saying.

Have the parents been asked what they think or been given an oppertunity to speak yet?

[macville]

Watch this video of a hearing on HB2016 on the 13th. Camp4u: Second amendment on campus for faculty and staff

Fast forward to 6:30 and watch the rep rip the MTSU police chief.