Two by Campfield RE carry on college/univ campus

[GKar]

First, there was SB0051: http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/107/Bill/SB0051.pdf

"...authorizes full-time faculty and staff at public colleges and universities in Tennessee to carry handguns if not otherwise prohibited by law."

Then, he introduces SB0399: http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/107/Bill/SB0399.pdf

"...authorizes full-time faculty at a public college to carry a firearm on such campus if they have a handgun carry permit."

[chemprof]

THERE IS A GOD!! Now if it stands a chance. I had a student last Fall that scared the daylights out of me and admin would do NOTHING. I hated feeling like an unarmed LEO when I'm just supposed to be a teacher.... Oh, please, please, please.......

[JayC]

Now, where is campus carry for HCP college students? One more bill and if they all passed we'd pretty much be a gold star state.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Sadly, the colleges / universities can use policy to deny the ability to carry, even if the law allows it. I hope the writer of the legislation has/will take this into consideration and prevent the state colleges from doing so. As for the private colleges and universities, that will be a harder thing to do...

I expect several colleges and universities to push back against this legislation...

At least it will allow the faculty member to be legal, even if the policy would end their job...

[Mr. Brooks]

Now, where is campus carry for HCP college students? One more bill and if they all passed we'd pretty much be a gold star state.

+1

I hated the "fish in a barrel" feeling I often had in a college classroom.

[Guest friesepferd]

yes, do keep in mind that the university will prohibit it, unless the law states that they may not.

granted, that means that if you carry you might lose your job vs getting thrown in jail.. but still.

Also kinda silly that they only made that for those who work there. what about the students? they have just as much right to carry there.

where i went to college (in michigan), by law i could carry on campus, but not in a classroom. the university did prohibit it however, so one would be expelled (or fired if working there) if they were caught. still much better than the current, but still...

what we really need is a law saying that anyone with a permit may carry, and the school may not prohibit it (like utah)

[Erik88]

my signature says it all.

I can't even leave my gun in my car when I'm at school. Telling me I'm defenseless in class is one thing. But telling me I must be unarmed to and from class is ridiculous.

[Guest clownsdd]

Well, let's see what Mark Nutless (sic norris) has to say about this.

[JAB]

In a way, it is too bad that it had to be Campfield who introduced this. Even bills that would not normally be seen as 'controversial' would gather controversy simply by having him introduce them. Bills with any controversy innate to them, by virtue of being introduced by Campfield, will likely become a crap-storm of negative press. I can see that such bills would have difficulty gaining support even from other legislators who might normally support such measures, in spite of some controversy, if someone other than Campfield introduced them.

On another note with the way that these bills are written, even if they had a snowball's chance in hell of passing, I can see the possibility that it would be legal for staff/faculty at a public college to carry but still illegal for staff/faculty at a private college to carry or even have a firearm in their vehicle. The legislation at the first link seems to address legality on private campuses but the second does not as far as I can tell and only makes carry/possession legal on public campuses.

Yes, I realize that employer rules against having a firearm in a vehicle on private campuses would still apply regardless of the legality - unless some version of the parking lot bill should pass - but it would really make little sense for something to be legal (university policy or employer rules aside) on a public campus but still illegal on a private campus.

Edited February 14, 2011 by JAB

[Worriedman]

Both initiatives have just until Thursday to get a House sponsor or they are dead. As of this writing, there is nothing on the Tennessee Legislature web site showing one for either.

[JAB]

Both initiatives have just until Thursday to get a House sponsor or they are dead. As of this writing, there is nothing on the Tennessee Legislature web site showing one for either.

Again, I wonder if finding a House sponsor might have been easier had someone other than Campfield introduced these bills.

[JAB]

Actually, I just re-read both bill summaries and neither of them address the legality of having a firearm on the campus of a private college. Since current legislation prohibits firearms on any and all school grounds, including private colleges, and this bill addresses only public colleges then, even if passed - and even if the schools administration had no rules against it - it looks like it would still be against state law to carry or even have a firearm in a vehicle on a private campus. That really makes no sense, whatsoever.

[Guest 270win]

This bill is poorly worded. A better way to do this would be to provide a simple exemption to carry on school property for someone with a handgun carry permit. There is a list of exemptions/defenses and just add handgun carry permit to that list. Plain, simple easy solution.

Then go down and delete the silly park language and substitute that with simple handgun carry permit as a defense/exemption.

Then go down and delete all that opt out junk that local govts can do.

Then go down and delete that 500 dollar fine for those signs.

After you do that, you have great gun laws in TN. Easy fixes...wouldn't take much but would save handgun carry permit folks A LOT of criminal penalty worries.

[JAB]

I saw in the Knoxville News-Sentinel that the UT faculty senate had passed a resolution in 'protest' of these bills stating that they do not want to carry guns on campus. My response would be, of course, "Fine. No one is going to force you."

The thing is, though, I am now wondering if this might not be a 'sacrifice' bill. If so, it just might be a stroke of genius - and having a 'lightning rod' like Campfield introduce it is brilliant. Here is my thinking:

A couple of years ago, there was such a hue and cry over the bill intended to allow HCP holders to carry in restaurants where alcohol is served that very little attention seemed to fall on some of the other 'pro-carry' bills. Park carry, for instance - I seem to recall one or two short articles talking about that bill and maybe some huffing and puffing from a few, local-level politicians but in the end there wasn't much coverage and it passed pretty easily. Bredesen didn't even veto it. As a result, we can now legally carry in state parks, national parks (due to a federal rule change that was already on the books but hadn't gone into effect, yet) and some/many local parks. My hunch is that if the antis hadn't been devoting so much attention and energy to the restaurant carry bill then there might have been more opposition to park carry.

So, could the 'campus carry' bill be mainly a diversion? Certainly I think it is a good bill, in itself, but I also wonder if it hasn't been put up with the thinking that, "Well, it will be great if it passes but if it doesn't maybe it will at least take some of the heat off of the parking lot bill and the one or two other pro-carry bills that are up for this session."

Edited March 9, 2011 by JAB

[K191145]

Here's what our RINO Governor, former member of Bloombergs (Mayors Against Illegal Guns) had to say about the bill. His Anti-2nd Amendment colors are showing.

www.wkrn.com/story/14212697/u-t-vote-doesnt-deter-senators-gun-bill

From the artical.

Governor Bill Haslam serves as the chair of the UT Board of Trustee and he does not seem on board with the bill.

"I have said all along that whoever controls that property should be able to decide what happens on that. I think, again if the faculty senate and ultimately the board UT or MTSU or whoever decides should be able to decide what happens on their campus," Haslam told Nashville's News 2.

Makes you wonder about the parking lot bill and what he will say about that. My hope is that Bozo Haslam will be over ridden and embarrassed a few times to put him in his place. I'm glad I didn't vote for the clown.

[Worriedman]

ultimately the board UT or MTSU or whoever decides should be able to decide what happens on their campus,"

I suppose he is willing then, to directly give the responsibility of the safety and security of the students and any visitors to those campuses to the board members, of which he is the Chair of UT, he has enough money for a couple of the law suits about to come out of MTSU.

Think he would be willing to share the fiscal responsibility?

[Worriedman]

Seems a little disingenuous to make this latest statement to the press in light of his campaign speech relative to the 2nd Amendment. I do not remember him saying his staffer would have just been SOL if the mentioned break-in had occurred on campus?

From the Governors statements at the TFA meeting:

[Grunt67]

If this bill should pass, unless it does not contain an opt-out clause, like the

famous "parks" bill, most, if not all colleges will refuse to allow guns on campus.

If you leave loopholes in any gun bill, it will be shot full of holes. Why they

don't get these bills right the first time is beyond comprehension.

Until we get a law that allows any law abiding citizen to carry wherever he/she

chooses, without restriction, we will constantly be adding band-aids to fix

these things, over & over again.

[pegasusrider]

What about changing the bill to allow carry by students in off-campus locations that do not provide armed security? One of their biggest arguments against student carry is the colleges provide adequate security. Many off-campus locations provide little or no security.

[Grunt67]

What about changing the bill to allow carry by students in off-campus locations that do not provide armed security? One of their biggest arguments against student carry is the colleges provide adequate security. Many off-campus locations provide little or no security.

I would think that if they qualify, they could use a regular HCP for off campus situations,

locations. Age being borderline here.

On campus security hasn't worked very well at some local campuses lately either.

Security or police can't be everywhere at all times. 911 doesn't work well if you're

already dead.

[DaveTN]

Does anyone know of any state that allows campus carry that can’t be trumped by the school?

[Fallguy]

Does anyone know of any state that allows campus carry that can’t be trumped by the school?

Not 100% sure, but maybe Utah I think.

Utah Criminal Code 76-10-505.5 specifically allows carry on campus if you have a permit.

..and according to Handgunlaw.us "No Guns" signs do not have the force of law in Utah unless they are at places that are already off-limits by law.

[Guest coldblackwind]

Campus carry came up at mtsu in a staff safety video/meeting thing with campus police the other day (after the valentines day thumb massacre) for the staff. They were against it. He thought civilians would be more dangerous to themselves and others than they would be help, they on the other hand, and this is a direct quote, "go the range 3 times a year"

[DaveTN]

He thought civilians would be more dangerous to themselves and others than they would be help, they on the other hand, and this is a direct quote, "go the range 3 times a year"

Who is "He"?

[Guest coldblackwind]

Let me whip out my handy dandy calendar with all the pictures in it...hmmm....looking at screen names I'm reluctant to answer that, lol. Having reread that it could be construed the wrong way, and as I know most of the campus cops, I don't want to make waves. I was simply saying it was a poor choice of words, not badmouthing the speaker, given that it was in response to a question from the audience, not a part of the prepared presentation that was likely a large part of it.