SB0306 (Southerland): Valid HCP replaces background check at purchase

[Armed Aviator]

I was a Georgia resident with a Concealed Carry Permit before I relocated here. You only had the background check with every renewal. The CCP was good for four years. All you had to do, was fill out the yellow Federal form and display your Drivers License and CCP then pay the purchase price to purchase a fire arm. But, alas, I miss those days...

[Oh Shoot]

Thank You. Dual resident, as FL considers establishing a business as establishing residence (along with requiring DL and vehicle tags)...

So, how are you able to buy a handgun in TN? I mean, you really can't have two different driver's licenses, right?

I've always had to show TN DL to show residency. What's the alternative?

- OS

[Guest sn8kbit]

I can only tell you the story backwards, as prior purchases here in FL was made with my TN DL. My business paperwork, registered with the State of FL with my name attached, and leasing information was acceptable. My most recent transaction in FL (trade in) was done with the new FL license, so doesn't apply. That said, I've not yet purchased a firearm in TN, so I don't know how it will work, unless there's the same acceptance of residential information outside of State ID. I don't have an answer on TN purchase for you. I don't know if there's a distinction with regulations regarding long/hand guns, all FL purchases/transfers here on TN DL and local paperwork were on long guns. IF there is, that may be why there was no issues. Again, don't know.

Side note, I did check with my local guy, and yes, there is a 5 dollar fee in FL for the background check. He normally rolls it into the cost intead of charging it on top. Says the word "fee" doesn't sit well with him or the buyer, so it's just easier that way. Explains why I never saw one.

Edited February 11, 2011 by sn8kbit
sperring

[Oh Shoot]

.... I don't know if there's a distinction with regulations regarding long/hand guns, all FL purchases/transfers here on TN DL and local paperwork were on long guns. IF there is, that may be why there was no issues. Again, don't know...

On that part, can assure you that Federal Law only allows handgun transfers in the state of your residence. Period.

So if one used TN residency in FL the handgun would have to be shipped to TN for transfer through a TN FFL. Or vice versa. If both states will recognize you as resident, then I guess you're golden in both.

However, Federal Law allows out of state transfer of long guns through FFL (not privately), so except for a few states, which have laws that only allow adjoining states to buy, most states allow anyone to to buy a rifle/shotgun, although there are individual FFLs who simply won't do it, even though it's legal.

- OS

[Guest sn8kbit]

Can't say. I do know recently the court recognized the dual residency in splitting the divorce and custody between states. TN jurisdiction on divorce (resident/lived/split) and FL on the custody (residence on minor child). I had to make a motion of special appearance in FL to maintain personal jurisdiction in TN. That said, the last purchase (trade) was on a handgun in FL, with FL DL and FL permit.

I don't see myself buying another pistol anytime soon, but it's simply worth the info in case it happens in TN.

Sorry if my couple questions sidetracked this thread.....

[GKar]

Back to the bill: this one moved out of Sen Justice Cmte today by 5-4 vote. Next appearance will be in Sen Fnc, Ways and Means.

[gregintenn]

THis would save me more than enough money to perpetually renew my carry premit! No way it will pass.

[GKar]

There's now a fiscal note attached, indicating a decrease in state revenues of $307,000 with no decrease in state expenditures. Here's the explanation:

• "According to TBI, there are 307,000 handgun carry permit holders. Approximately 54,200 renew each year. No data is available on gun purchases made by permit holders. TBI assumes approximately 10 percent (30,700) of firearm purchasers would also have a valid handgun carry permit and would no longer be subject to a background check. There will be a recurring decrease in state revenue of $307,000 (30,700 x $10)."

  
  

• "Any decrease in expenditures for TBI to perform fewer background checks is estimated to be not significant."

  
  

  
  

• "The proposed bill does not require gun dealers to verify the validity of handgun carry permits with the Department of Safety (DOS). As a result, there will no fiscal impact to DOS."

  
  

  
  

[JayC]

You know, $307k a year must pay for at least 2 to 4 of the workers in that department... seems pretty simple to get rid of that fiscal note, just add a rider to have the TBI fire 4 or 5 employees, then the bill saves us some money.

Or better yet, lets just get rid of TICS altogether, and go to NICS and we can fire the entire department. Less unconstitutional fees, and fewer government workers, sounds like a win-win to me

There's now a fiscal note attached, indicating a decrease in state revenues of $307,000 with no decrease in state expenditures. Here's the explanation:

• "According to TBI, there are 307,000 handgun carry permit holders. Approximately 54,200 renew each year. No data is available on gun purchases made by permit holders. TBI assumes approximately 10 percent (30,700) of firearm purchasers would also have a valid handgun carry permit and would no longer be subject to a background check. There will be a recurring decrease in state revenue of $307,000 (30,700 x $10)."

  
  

• "Any decrease in expenditures for TBI to perform fewer background checks is estimated to be not significant."

  
  

  
  

• "The proposed bill does not require gun dealers to verify the validity of handgun carry permits with the Department of Safety (DOS). As a result, there will no fiscal impact to DOS."

  
  

  
  

[Fallguy]

FWIW I think there is difference between a bill that simply has a loss of revenue rather than one that the state would have to find more money to pay for something.

...at least as far as how it would be treated in the Finance Ways & Means committee....

[waynesan]

Here is a link to watch the Senate Committee discussing this bill on the 22nd. Just click on 0306 on the menu under the screen when it loads up to take you right to the discussion for this bill. It is the second bill from the top of the list.

Senate-Judiciary

Edited February 25, 2011 by waynesan

[1gewehr]

Actually, the $10 TICS check is just supposed to cover the cost to the state of the background check. So, if they are doing fewer checks, there should be lower expenses and no loss of 'revenue' to the state. Unless, of course, they have been lying to us about what it really costs to do a TICS check.

[Oh Shoot]

Actually, the $10 TICS check is just supposed to cover the cost to the state of the background check. So, if they are doing fewer checks, there should be lower expenses and no loss of 'revenue' to the state. Unless, of course, they have been lying to us about what it really costs to do a TICS check.

There IS no cost for TiCS to do a check, except the time for the staffer. Who of course is not necessary since FFLs can access NICS directly. Which is the way its handled in all the other states.

If the $10 is only a break even figure, what's the purpose of TICS at all? A make-work project for a few folks?

- OS

[Guest 270win]

I'm guessing there will be a bill to make the handgun carry permit compliant as a background check substitute? I know my Arkansas concealed handgun license was compliant as a NICS substitute because Arkansas State Police is required to run background checks on all licensees every single year, whether you are renewing or not. Mississippi licenses are also NICS substitute compliant and I'm sure Mississippi DPS does the same yearly background checks.

I'm all for this because I get sick and tired of paying 10 bucks to run a background check on myself when buying from a dealer. The TN highway patrol should just run yearly computer checks on handgun carry permits and fix this problem. Easy solution.

[Oh Shoot]

.... The TN highway patrol should just run yearly computer checks on handgun carry permits and fix this problem. Easy solution.

Much simpler to just nuke TICS. Period.

It's just another example of government's forte: doing badly what need not be done at all.

- OS

[JayC]

There IS no cost for TiCS to do a check, except the time for the staffer. Who of course is not necessary since FFLs can access NICS directly. Which is the way its handled in all the other states.

If the $10 is only a break even figure, what's the purpose of TICS at all? A make-work project for a few folks?

- OS

I think we have a winner!

[GLOCKMEISTER]

hey guys, since some of us dealers are having so much trouble with the TBI/TICS, Im thinking of asking a Rep or two to get together and add an amendment to this bill that would allow FFL dealers the option of useing the FBI/NICS system instead of TICS. It might be to late for an amendment, but were thinking of trying. Any thoughts?

[Fallguy]

Hmmmm....you probably have a better feel on whether it would help, hurt or basically not effect the chance of the bill passing.

I really don't purchase a lot of firearms, but anything to make the transaction more efficient (and cheaper...lol), I'd be all for.

[Oh Shoot]

hey guys, since some of us dealers are having so much trouble with the TBI/TICS, Im thinking of asking a Rep or two to get together and add an amendment to this bill that would allow FFL dealers the option of useing the FBI/NICS system instead of TICS. It might be to late for an amendment, but were thinking of trying. Any thoughts?

Might go, but only if they still got their $10 tax.

- OS

[Guest 270win]

I think the only thing that got me quicker through NICS back in Arkansas was I didn't have to mess with NICS at all after I got my concealed handgun license! The NICS isn't faster than TICS. I think it is slower. TICS is faster than NICS because it is a fed run system VS state run system. I was so glad when i got my CHL back in Arkansas to avoid the silly waiting and standing around. Most of the time I've bought guns in TN TICS is pretty fast I think because i've seen some dealers in TN have a computer website link to TICS. I have no idea of NICS is doing that now. I bought a long gun in a NICS state (Mississippi) a couple of years ago and the FFL had to call it in and it was slower than TICS.

That has been my experiences in buying firearms in TN, MS, and Arkansas. Best bet is to get the TN handgun carry permit ATF/NICS/TICS compliant as a background check substitute. DOS will have to do yearly background checks, not just on renewals. AR and MS do those on their licensees.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Time isnt a factor now. NICS is just as fast because they are web based too now. Also its free, ask for less information, and wont deny someone for meaningless misd. like TICS will. Id say 98% of the people denied by tics eventually get their gun. They simply should never have been denied in the first place. NICS only looks for convictions that would prohibite gun possession, unlike TICS that will deny for just about anything.

[Oh Shoot]

...The NICS isn't faster than TICS. I think it is slower. TICS is faster than NICS because it is a fed run system VS state run system.

Time isnt a factor now. NICS is just as fast because they are web based too now. Also its free, ask for less information, and wont deny someone for meaningless misd. like TICS will. Id say 98% of the people denied by tics eventually get their gun. They simply should never have been denied in the first place. NICS only looks for convictions that would prohibite gun possession, unlike TICS that will deny for just about anything.

I thought TICS was simply an overlay that accessed NICS anyway? No? You say there are additional databases searched by TICS, or what?

- OS