SB0306 (Southerland): Valid HCP replaces background check at purchase

[GKar]

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/107/Bill/SB0306.pdf

This would be a nice touch, as well. Presenting a valid HCP at time of handgun purchase would eliminate eth need for a background check.

Already has a House sponsor, and is referred to Sen Judicary cmte. We'll see if it surfaces from there...not on a calendar yet.

[Fasttalker]

It's a nice thought but it will never go anywhere because the state would lose all the $$$$ from the background checks.

[Fallguy]

It's a nice thought but it will never go anywhere because the state would lose all the $$$$ from the background checks.

Unless they just raise the cost of renewals...

[Fasttalker]

Either way, it's all about the $$$$.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Hmm. Interesting. Isnt the background check a Federal requirement? (I thought it was...) Has this been done in other states with success?

The devil's advocate in me can see an argument against the idea. - What if the Permit holder has committed a crime, and it has not caught up with his permit, yet?

As a permit holder, I would love to save $10 here and there...

[Fallguy]

Hmm. Interesting. Isnt the background check a Federal requirement? (I thought it was...) Has this been done in other states with success?

The devil's advocate in me can see an argument against the idea. - What if the Permit holder has committed a crime, and it has not caught up with his permit, yet?

As a permit holder, I would love to save $10 here and there...

Yes, it is done in other states. The reason it is done in other states is because they do a background check every year. Currently in TN they only do a background check when you get it and when you renew.

In theory, if you have done something that would disqualify you from purchasing a firearm, you HCP should be suspended/revoked and you wouldn't have it to show when purchasing one.

[JReedEsq]

In theory, if you have done something that would disqualify you from purchasing a firearm, you HCP should be suspended/revoked and you wouldn't have it to show when purchasing one.

This is correct. I've seen HCPs taken in the Courtroom.

[Oh Shoot]

Hmm. Interesting. Isnt the background check a Federal requirement? (I thought it was...) Has this been done in other states with success?....

Yes and yes.

However, there must be some arrangement with the state and the feds, I'm sure, that background checks are done on permit holders often enough to be kosher for the fed requirement. So this bill might not even be okay with the feds even if passed.

- OS

[Guest HvyMtl]

Hmm. So the cost would be a yearly background check? Would it be $10, as it would be buying, or more$? Would it increase any burden on the permit holder (filling out additional paperwork and sending it in every year, etc.?)

If it is going to cost more than the system we have, then no. If it is going to be less expensive, and not too much of a burden to the permit holder, then yes.

[Oh Shoot]

Hmm. So the cost would be a yearly background check? Would it be $10, as it would be buying, or more$? Would it increase any burden on the permit holder (filling out additional paperwork and sending it in every year, etc.?)

If it is going to cost more than the system we have, then no. If it is going to be less expensive, and not too much of a burden to the permit holder, then yes.

I don't know how it's handled with other states...don't have time to research, but AR,MS,GA,AZ come to mind as states that do this?

NC lets you bypass the "pistol purchase permit" with a carry permit, but of course that's a yankee commie state thing in the first place.

- OS

[MikePapa1]

I hate to rain on the parade here, but I think the chances of this bill passing are nil. Every piece of proposed legislation has a revenue note attached telling how much it will cost. As it removes from the TBI a source of revenue in lean times, it will not get a favorable review, hence has little chance of passage.

[Guest sn8kbit]

I was surprised when I made a trade with a dealer at a local FL gun show, where I showed my permit and ID, and did not have to wait the 3 days. Just the standard ATF phone call and I was on my way. Others were purchasing and it was the same process. Permit = no wait.

It's been so long since I purchased a handgun from a dealer in TN, I didn't know there was a cost involved in the background check. If there is a State revenue issue, I agree, it most likely won't pass, but the bill on it's face makes sense.

[Fallguy]

It has been a while...there hasn't been a waiting period if you pass the background check for several years.

[Guest sn8kbit]

The purchase/trade was recently in FL. I guess they have a 3 day wait here. Last purchase in TN was an ATF call and I was out the door upon approval (05-06 if I remember right).

Is there now a background check fee in TN on every purchase outside the ATF call? The way I understand it, there's always going to be the necessary call to the ATF (the Fed regulated part), but I suppose I'm really not clear on how this differs, or is a change.

I ask because I am back and forth quite a bit, and it's not outside the realm of possibility that I may buy while there.

[Oh Shoot]

The purchase/trade was recently in FL. I guess they have a 3 day wait here. Last purchase in TN was an ATF call and I was out the door upon approval (05-06 if I remember right).

Is there now a background check fee in TN on every purchase outside the ATF call? The way I understand it, there's always going to be the necessary call to the ATF (the Fed regulated part), but I suppose I'm really not clear on how this differs, or is a change.

I ask because I am back and forth quite a bit, and it's not outside the realm of possibility that I may buy while there.

I don't understand any of your questions.

There is no waiting period to buy in TN.

The "ATF call" you refer to is the national NICS database, run by the FBI; however, it is handled through the TBI and is called TICS, which charges $10 to access the free FBI database. It is really a tax imposed by the legislature.

You are a TN resident?

If so, you can't legally buy a handgun in FL from private sell or FFL; you can buy a long gun from FFL in FL if he is willing, but not legally in private transaction.

- OS

[Fallguy]

I don't understand any of your questions.

There is no waiting period to buy in TN.

The "ATF call" you refer to is the national NICS database, run by the FBI; however, it is handled through the TBI and is called TICS, which charges $10 to access the free FBI database. It is really a tax imposed by the legislature.

Well said

You are a TN resident?

If so, you can't legally buy a handgun in FL from private sell or FFL; you can buy a long gun from FFL in FL if he is willing, but not legally in private transaction.

- OS

Unless he is also a FL resident (Dual Resident) as discussed in another thread.

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

Q: What constitutes residency in a State?

The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,†in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921(

, 922(a) (3), and 922(

(3), 27 CFR 478.11]

[Guest sn8kbit]

Thank You. Dual resident, as FL considers establishing a business as establishing residence (along with requiring DL and vehicle tags). I'm aware of the purchasing issues, what I wasn't aware of is the 10 dollar fee in TN. That's a new one on me from my last TN purchase (that I recall), and answered my question.

There is a wait in FL. I was simply stating that the CCW (FL is concealed) skips the wait, but the call still happens. No check fee.

That said, and now that I understand there is a fee (tax) attached, I doubt this'll fly in TN.

Apologies for muddying the water......

Edited February 11, 2011 by sn8kbit

[TNRobocop]

Thank You. Dual resident, as FL considers establishing a business as establishing residence (along with requiring DL and vehicle tags). I'm aware of the purchasing issues, what I wasn't aware of is the 10 dollar fee in TN. That's a new one on me from my last TN purchase (that I recall), and answered my question.

There is a wait in FL. I was simply stating that the CCW (FL is concealed) skips the wait, but the call still happens. No check fee.

That said, and now that I understand there is a fee (tax) attached, I doubt this'll fly in TN.

Apologies for muddying the water......

I was at a gun shop here in Pensacola today and they said that their background checks go through the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) who charges $5 for the check. They also said that handguns are subject to the wait without a permit, but yes that handguns may be picked up immediately after background check approval with a permit.

[Guest sn8kbit]

Ok. There was no 5 dollar fee on my paperwork on that deal. I have a dealer I've transferred 2 AR lower recievers through, no fee other than the $25 transfer, and one shotgun and 1 AR without fees. Dealer rolling it in on cost maybe? Dunno. I'm only going by what I've experienced. I'm going to look at an Elcan tomorrow, I'll ask the guy about it, and see if they roll it into the cost.

Point was, I didn't recall a fee in TN and it was throwing me off. I'm clear on it now.

[gunbartender]

there are 5 states where their carry permit forgoes the background check.

[DRM]

Were I an FFL holder, I'd probably be against this, from a liability standpoint... i.e. - I visually check to see that their HCP looks valid, however without a check that HCP has been revoked and the buyer actually doesn't have the legal right to purchase. As an FFL, I'd think I would want to "CYA" and run a background anyway...

[Punisher84]

Were I an FFL holder, I'd probably be against this, from a liability standpoint... i.e. - I visually check to see that their HCP looks valid, however without a check that HCP has been revoked and the buyer actually doesn't have the legal right to purchase. As an FFL, I'd think I would want to "CYA" and run a background anyway...

Are you sure you aren't a liberal?

[Fallguy]

Were I an FFL holder, I'd probably be against this, from a liability standpoint... i.e. - I visually check to see that their HCP looks valid, however without a check that HCP has been revoked and the buyer actually doesn't have the legal right to purchase. As an FFL, I'd think I would want to "CYA" and run a background anyway...

If their HCP has been revoked...they have 10 days to turn it in. (Assuming they weren't in court and the judge took already took it). If after 10 days they don't turn it in a trooper will be at their door to get it.

So the odds are low they would have a HCP still in their possession if it has been revoked, but I still don't think the FFL would have any liability as long as he complied with the law.

[DRM]

If their HCP has been revoked...they have 10 days to turn it in. (Assuming they weren't in court and the judge took already took it). If after 10 days they don't turn it in a trooper will be at their door to get it.

Really? That fast? I wasn't aware, thanks.

I was thinking more along the lines of there is a mental condition or incident that taken place which would disqualify them, but has not triggered the HCP revocation process yet (I assume that is possible).

So the odds are low they would have a HCP still in their possession if it has been revoked, but I still don't think the FFL would have any liability as long as he complied with the law.

True, the FFL probably has some protection - but I could still see a civil case popping up from the family of a victim, along the lines of a "bartender should have cut them off" lawsuit. Win, lose, or tossed - the FFL might think it is easier to do the check up front than deal with that kind of mess.

[RobertNashville]

Since this is "all about money"...I wonder how much the State of Tennessee is losing in fees and taxes from people conducting private sales?

While I boufht a couple of guns last year from a dealer, I bought several others (and sold a few) privately...I didn't do so specifically to avoid the taxes and background check fee but it sure didn't bother me any that I DID avoid the taxes and fee.