So I spoke with Applebees about their posting

[1gewehr]

Applebees is trying to be a fence-sitter. By making the signage inconspicuous and not to legal standards, they think they are appeasing gun owners, but if a gun control freak asks, they can point to the sign and say they DO forbid firearms.

I won't go there. A waffler is worse than an opponent. At least you know where the opponent stands. The waffler will stab you in the back at the worst possible moment.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Hardly fence sitting here in Knoxville, the district manager said without a doubt they allow firearms. She even said that she knows that any posting, even the one that ABC requires is costing them customers. The signs they have posted here in Knoxville are per ABC.

Feel free to call and ask "Do you allow firearms?", giving no hint to what side you are on and see what is said.

I was told it was no Applebee policy to forbid firearms so the other restaurants might be getting posted by the individual managers. There was another restauarant a few months back who had to remove the sign once corporate was informed. Perhaps this is the same with the one above.

Dolomite

Edited February 21, 2011 by Dolomite_supafly

[Fallguy]

-

Applebees is trying to be a fence-sitter. By making the signage inconspicuous and not to legal standards, they think they are appeasing gun owners, but if a gun control freak asks, they can point to the sign and say they DO forbid firearms.

I won't go there. A waffler is worse than an opponent. At least you know where the opponent stands. The waffler will stab you in the back at the worst possible moment.

Did you read the thread? How is it fence sitting?

The manager wanted to remove the sign, which again IS NOT A 39-17-1359 SIGN AND DOES NOT, NOR EVER DID, LEGALLY PREVENT CARRY, but the TABC told him he must leave the signs up

IMO the "bad guys" here are the TABC that despite the law change are trying to make businesses leave up the old 57-4-203 and 57-3-204 signs.

[vontar]

IMO the "bad guys" here are the TABC that despite the law change are trying to make businesses leave up the old 57-4-203 and 57-3-204 signs.

Agree.

That is what I meant by saying they are trying to force places to post an invalid sign to try to sneak in a invalid posting.

Until a business decides to fight the TABC and leave down the signs and make the TABC take them to court we dont' have a court case on it. However the law a posted

Edited February 22, 2011 by vontar

[Dolomite_supafly]

Agree.

That is what I meant by saying they are trying to force places to post an invalid sign to try to sneak in a invalid posting.

Until a business decides to fight the TABC and leave down the signs and make the TABC take them to court we dont' have a court case on it. However the law a posted

In speaking with the district manager she told me that they would be contacting the TABC to try to change their minds about the postings. She implied that they were aware that the law cited in the posting was invalid but tht they still wanted the sign posted.

I may call her again today just to get an update on her efforts.

Dolomite

[Guest friesepferd]

Hold on--- I mean, TABC is a government organisation is it not? How can they even require them to do that?

That answer does actually make sense though- The applebees in JC like I said has the sign, but its actually quite hidden-- as if it is just there to make some inspector happy.

[Guest friesepferd]

And along with that-- I have not see this in any other place that serves alcohol. Is applebees the only one TABC is going after? That makes no sense. Id really like some more info as to who and why TABC is saying this to, and whether or not they are allowed to.

[Fallguy]

And along with that-- I have not see this in any other place that serves alcohol. Is applebees the only one TABC is going after? That makes no sense. Id really like some more info as to who and why TABC is saying this to, and whether or not they are allowed to.

Well even before the law change I only saw those signs a few times.....it seems most places already didn't "prominetly" display them.

Guess a lot of it depends on the inspector and what he considers to be ok.

[Guest friesepferd]

Guess a lot of it depends on the inspector and what he considers to be ok.

Unfortunatly I'm sure thats what it is. I know very well that inspectors interpret this VERY differently in any area.

[Guest HvyMtl]

Honestly, this sounds like an accidental oversight by the legislature. The question is whether or not a legislator will try to clarify the law. I highly doubt it with the present Governor and Speaker of the House...

Again, listen to Fallguy, as I believe, he has it spot on. Though I do understand the concern with several overzealous police officers out there... I hope they get better educated on the facts that HCP holders are on their side, and are highly unlikely to commit crimes of any kind (last stats I saw stated 14 times less likely than the average citizen. Wish I could find those stats again...)

[Fallguy]

Honestly, this sounds like an accidental oversight by the legislature. The question is whether or not a legislator will try to clarify the law. I highly doubt it with the present Governor and Speaker of the House...

Again, listen to Fallguy, as I believe, he has it spot on. Though I do understand the concern with several overzealous police officers out there... I hope they get better educated on the facts that HCP holders are on their side, and are highly unlikely to commit crimes of any kind (last stats I saw stated 14 times less likely than the average citizen. Wish I could find those stats again...)

Thanks for the vote of confidence...

But not sure how this is the legislatures fault. I think they finally got it right this time. When 39-17-1305 was amended to allow carry in places that sold alcohol for off-site consumption and even the first attempt at restaurant carry...the forgot and/or didn't address the ABC signs...this time they actually did. I really think it is just someone at the TABC trying to "hold on" to the past or something. It may or may not even be the "official" policy...but just the person they got in touch with that time.

[Just2Honor]

Contacted TOOTS Restuarant chain about the same "old" signage last week. Owner emailed me that he had checked with folks in the capital and immediately had his managers remove the old signs in all locations. Evidently the restuarant association never sent out anything about the change or else everybody in his offices missed it. Guy seemed very appreciative that I told him of the change--sent me a gift certificate.

[Fallguy]

Contacted TOOTS Restuarant chain about the same "old" signage last week. Owner emailed me that he had checked with folks in the capital and immediately had his managers remove the old signs in all locations. Evidently the restuarant association never sent out anything about the change or else everybody in his offices missed it. Guy seemed very appreciative that I told him of the change--sent me a gift certificate.

Excellent.....

....as long as the TABC doesn't get their panties in a wad...

[Erik88]

Contacted TOOTS Restuarant chain about the same "old" signage last week. Owner emailed me that he had checked with folks in the capital and immediately had his managers remove the old signs in all locations. Evidently the restuarant association never sent out anything about the change or else everybody in his offices missed it. Guy seemed very appreciative that I told him of the change--sent me a gift certificate.

that's great!

[Dolomite_supafly]

Good stuff guys. This what needs to happen restaurant by restaurant. Most managers that I have spoken to realize the signs are excluding a large part of their business. Some are still idiotic about it but most want to remove the signs.

Dolomite

[Guest ab28]

Yeah, I am still not sure about the carry in bars/restaurants thing. First it was legal, then illegal, now I have no idea.

[Chucktshoes]

Yeah, I am still not sure about the carry in bars/restaurants thing. First it was legal, then illegal, now I have no idea.

If they aren't posting and you aren't drinking, it is legal to carry your firearm where alcohol is served for on site consumption.

[Fallguy]

Yeah, I am still not sure about the carry in bars/restaurants thing. First it was legal, then illegal, now I have no idea.

It is legal unless the place is posted.

There was a law change that made it legal if the place met certain requirements. Then a judge ruled the law void because it was too vague for the average person to know if a place had met those requirements. So the legislature came back and passed a bill that just completely repealed 39-17-1305 (the law that originally prevented/regulated carry) altogether.

So know you can carry in ANY place that serves alcohol as longs as they don't post per 39-17-1359

[Fallguy]

If they aren't posting and you aren't drinking, it is legal to carry your firearm where alcohol is served for on site consumption.

Ah...good catch on pointing out the no drinking....

[aquaman67]

I believe O'Charlie's in Clarksville on Riverside Drive has that same sign. If you stand looking at the bar it's on the left side above the bar.

I mean really above the bar. It's about 12 feet high and you can barely see it. I have the feeling it's for the same reason that Applebee's posted it. Some inspector who makes a living from our taxes has no clue what they're doing...

[Dolomite_supafly]

Hate to revive a daed thread but I figured I would give a little update.

So about a month or two after I initially posted this thread I went back to Applebee's or at least that was the first time I noticed this. The sign that used old verbage and that was posted at the entrance was gone. Not updated or moved, from what I could see, but gone totally. Speaking with the district manager as much as I did in the weeks following see assured me she would try to get it removed and she was successful.

Also, a few weeks ago I ate at the newly opened Applebee's in Oak Ridge. It too has no signs what so ever prohibiting firearms. It is also managed by the same people as those who manage the Knoxville Applebee's. If it does have a sign that crops up then call the district manager and complain because it is not their doing but the restaurant manager that is doing it of his own accord.

They, the district manager as well as the regional manager, made good on their word to try everything in their power to get the signs down and they have succeeded.

Dolomite

[Guest RobThatsMe]

I noticed the same old sign at O'Charlies in Springhill. It is highly visable right behind the bar.

I talked with the manager about it, but so far, the sign has not been removed or changed.