So I spoke with Applebees about their posting

[Dolomite_supafly]

They have an older sign that states it is illegal to enter an establishment that serves alcohol with a firearm. Basically, the old signage.

I spoke to the district manager, who has a HCP, and she assured me it was perfectly legal to carry in her restaurant even though their is a sign posted. I told her that the sign referred to the old law and that the new law was worded different. She agreed and said that after the new law passed all of the Applebees in her district removed all signs regarding firearm carry. She went on to say that it was the Tennessee Alcohol Beverage Commission that told her that the signs she removed needed to be put back up. She said she tried to explain to them that the signs were old laws and didn't apply and they said they would fine the restaurant if they didn't. They did put the old signs back up to make TABC happy.

After speaking to her she called the regional manager and between them they were going to call the TABC to let them know they needed to update the sign. She said more than a few times that it is idiotic to have a sign quoting the old law. SHe even said she might post the sign in the kitchen.

So hopefully they will be removing the sign altogether. I just don't understand why they have to and I eat at others that aren't posted with the same sigh even though they serve alcohol.

Dolomite

[vontar]

Good for you.

If you do, let that DM know you know someone that lives in Oak Ridge near where they are Rebuilding that Applebees and would be happy to eat at the new rebuilt Applebees when they finish as long as they don't post it. Currently the Oak Ridge Applebees is being rebuilt due to a fire at the old one.

We really need a nice, non posted place to compete with Lincolns. Lincolns is nice and good food, however they posted and kinda tried to Hide their Posted sign as well but it is a legal sign, although nearly hid I stooped going there.

[Fallguy]

It sounds like the TABC is the one that needs to be informed and contacted. Maybe they aren't aware the new law that repleaed 39-17-1305 also repealed the subsections of the law that required those old signs to be posted.

So the signs don't need to be "updated" they need to be removed, they are no longer required by law and falsely state what the current law is.

Wish I knew who they spoke with at the TABC.

Tennessee Alcoholic Beverage Commission

Edited February 10, 2011 by Fallguy

[Dolomite_supafly]

It sounds like the TABC is the one that needs to be informed and contacted. Maybe they aren't aware the new law that repleaed 39-17-1305 also repealed the subsections of the law that required those old signs to be posted.

So the signs don't need to be "updated" they need to be removed, they are no longer required by law and falsely state what the current law is.

That is what the district manager said. That all was needed was the TABC to update their rules ro reflect the new laws. They are being contacted again by the reps from Applebees to hopefully get them up to speed with regards to the law. They contacted them shortly after they had to put the signs back up. The manager also said the TABC made them put up a pregnant and drinking is harmful sign as well even though there isn't a law specifically written to address that.

Dolomite

[Fallguy]

Pitiful..... Yes, I guess technically even though a sign is not required by law, the TABC can require, by rule, that certain signs to be posted, but you wouldn't think it would require those that are blatantly wrong. If this isn't resolved maybe someone from the legislature can contact the TABC

Edited February 10, 2011 by Fallguy

[vontar]

That is what the district manager said. That all was needed was the TABC to update their rules ro reflect the new laws. They are being contacted again by the reps from Applebees to hopefully get them up to speed with regards to the law. They contacted them shortly after they had to put the signs back up. The manager also said the TABC made them put up a pregnant and drinking is harmful sign as well even though there isn't a law specifically written to address that.

Dolomite

I would show the TABC person that is printed on the bottle over every bottle of beer. Besides that is common knowledge I know, I am just asking for someone to say something. I am in an agreement with Dolomite if there is no law for it, why can they be required to do that. Put the sign up backwards. He is it up. If you don't like it show me the law that requires it be up right.

[strickj]

They should make a law requiring a sign to be posted saying it's illegal to post signs that are not legal.

Problem solved!

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Either that or a law requiring state employees to pay attention to laws being passed

and to fix their own problems before trying to interfere with commerce. That pesky

thing that pays them to do their job.

[Guest ARMEDMARINE]

I am still cautious about any signs. New, old or otherwise.

[Guest ARMEDMARINE]

Almost forgot, thanks for speaking up.

[JayC]

Guys, if you've never had a license from the TABC you can't understand just how bad government can be. Trust me, of the list of stuff they make you do that is no authorized by law, putting up that old sign is the least of a owners worry. The question you need to be asking yourself, is why do we need a TABC at all? What useful purpose do they really serve?

[gnmwilliams]

Good for you.

If you do, let that DM know you know someone that lives in Oak Ridge near where they are Rebuilding that Applebees and would be happy to eat at the new rebuilt Applebees when they finish as long as they don't post it. Currently the Oak Ridge Applebees is being rebuilt due to a fire at the old one.

We really need a nice, non posted place to compete with Lincolns. Lincolns is nice and good food, however they posted and kinda tried to Hide their Posted sign as well but it is a legal sign, although nearly hid I stooped going there.

I second this! Oh and Lincoln's is over-rated in my opinion.

[vontar]

In reply to both

Either that or a law requiring state employees to pay attention to laws being passed

and to fix their own problems before trying to interfere with commerce. That pesky

thing that pays them to do their job.

Guys, if you've never had a license from the TABC you can't understand just how bad government can be. Trust me, of the list of stuff they make you do that is no authorized by law, putting up that old sign is the least of a owners worry. The question you need to be asking yourself, is why do we need a TABC at all? What useful purpose do they really serve?

What I believe this comes down to is some TABC employees, that are against the restaurant carry bill and are trying to force a no guns sign in though the back door via an expired law.

They know that law is expired yet they are trying to strong arm business's into posting. I believe someone posted that they spoke with the owner of Lincolns and I may be wrong on this and it may be on the forum someplace and they where encouraged to post by TABC.

I found it,

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/carry-prohibited-locations/43161-lincolns-sports-bar-grill-oak-ridge.html

The floor is open.

Edited February 10, 2011 by vontar

[Erik88]

I could go on and on about my feelings on TABC. They are a joke!

Thanks for speaking up! Applebees food still sucks but at least we can carry there!

[bigwakes]

I could go on and on about my feelings on TABC. They are a joke!

Thanks for speaking up! Applebees food still sucks but at least we can carry there!

Yep! I may be slightly more inclined to eat crappy food if I can pack some heat.

[vontar]

Yep! I may be slightly more inclined to eat crappy food if I can pack some heat.

Heck, maybe with some suggestions they might be wiling to look into the food. I personally never liked the food I had at Outback and quit going there before I started carrying.

[Erik88]

Heck, maybe with some suggestions they might be wiling to look into the food. I personally never liked the food I had at Outback and quit going there before I started carrying.

highly doubt it. One of my good friends is the manager at the Peter's Rd location. I can assure you, they are not going to change. The are highly "corporate" and the reason they do so well is because they have inexpensive food. In order to improve their quality they would have to raise their prices.

[Glock30]

I wager that the DM being a HCP holder made all the difference in the world.

[Fallguy]

I would suggest using caution on using the word "posting" or at least clarify we are talking about the signs that used to be requred by 57-4-203 and 57-3-204, not 39-17-1359 signs. These signs required by the TABC, never were to prevent carry, even before the law change. They only stated the consequences of illegal carry. But espically now the really mean nothing legally or do anything legally. But many that carry may not know the law exactly and will not carry in a place with any type of "posting" include these signs. So I just want to make sure everyone knows the signs we are talking about never legally prevented carry in the first place (just stated what 39-17-1305 was and the consequences of violation) and now that 39-17-1305 has been replealed really mean nothing know.

This the wording of the "old" 57-4-203 and 57-3-204 signs...

MISDEMEANOR. STATE LAW PRESCRIBES A MAXIMUM PENALTY OF ELEVEN (11) MONTHS TWENTY-NINE (29) DAYS IMPRISONMENT AND A FINE NOT TO EXCEED TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($2,500) FOR CARRYING WEAPONS WHERE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES ARE SOLD OR SERVED.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Fallguy

[Guest BEARMAN]

Signs, signs, everywhere is signs!...Dat gumit!...

[cadillacdude1975]

all though you have good intentions, i would let dead dogs lie. if you run across a place that is improperly posted, calling attention to that may end up backfiring in your direction and every other HCP holder in Tennessee. if they are improperly posted, carry away, concealed of course. dont give the anti's any more leverage no matter what your intentions may be.

[Dolomite_supafly]

all though you have good intentions, i would let dead dogs lie. if you run across a place that is improperly posted, calling attention to that may end up backfiring in your direction and every other HCP holder in Tennessee. if they are improperly posted, carry away, concealed of course. dont give the anti's any more leverage no matter what your intentions may be.

I would rather a place be properly posted even if it does prevent me from entering.

You are not going to convince an overzealous LE that the improperly posted sign is a reason to let you walk. More than likely you will get a WTF look as they take care of business. Most LE don't take well to being told what the law is or how to do their job.

I would rather pass on a properly psoted place than take a chance on loosing my HCP or possibly worse. At a bare minimum you are going to have to hire a lawyer to defend yourself even if you are in the right and those aren't exactly cheap.

Dolomite

[Fallguy]

all though you have good intentions, i would let dead dogs lie. if you run across a place that is improperly posted, calling attention to that may end up backfiring in your direction and every other HCP holder in Tennessee. if they are improperly posted, carry away, concealed of course. dont give the anti's any more leverage no matter what your intentions may be.

In general I agree....but I don't think of these signs as "posting". They never were and are even less so now. They are very misleading. Also in this case it doesn't seem to be the establishment, but the TABC still requiring them, even after the law change. You know if they are still requiring them for one place, then they probably are for all. Which if true, does need to be addressed...

[Fallguy]

I would rather a place be properly posted even if it does prevent me from entering.

You are not going to convince an overzealous LE that the improperly posted sign is a reason to let you walk. More than likely you will get a WTF look as they take care of business. Most LE don't take well to being told what the law is or how to do their job.

I would rather pass on a properly psoted place than take a chance on loosing my HCP or possibly worse. At a bare minimum you are going to have to hire a lawyer to defend yourself even if you are in the right and those aren't exactly cheap.

Dolomite

Well out of the nearly 10000 members on this board we yet to have anyone report hearing of someone charged with a violation of 39-17-1359.

Aside from those with a HCP simply not walking past a "proper" sign or any sign...I think another reason is most stay concealed and those around are not aware that they are armed.

However if you were somehow "made" I think 99.9% of the time you would simply be asked to leave or take it to the car...this is just my opinion and I have no links or data to back it.

But even if you aren't asked to leave etc..... You would still have to be inside for the LEO to charge you since it is a misdemeanor. Misdemeanor offenses must be committed in the officers presence for him to charge you. So in those cases the owner would have to charge you.....do you really think he is going to take time off from work to go to court for something that really doesn't benefit him in the end?

If you are still inside I feel the LEO is going to ask the owner, "What do you want?" and the owner is more than likely to say "I want him to leave. "and/or the LEO is going to tell you to leave on his own. Especially if there is any question about the legality of the sign. That is the main goal, isn't it? Once that is accomplished, unless you were a "smarta**", I don't think the LEO wants to waste the time for paperwork and court on you.

Again this is all just my opinion, so no facts, links etc... to back it up. But it is the principal I operate under when it comes to signs that IMO are not legal per 39-17-1359.

Also to clarify, I AM NOT advocating carry past a properly posted sign, or one that you feel is properly posted.

[Guest friesepferd]

I went to the Applebees in Johnson City last week and spent quite a bit of time searching the doors for a sign and found none.

I had seen a post on here somewhere that it had a non-legit sign, and I was looking pretty hard for it to see.

After I ate and was walking out of the builing, I saw a tiny little sign on the inside wall of the entryway area. It was on the wall of the door, so it actually is impossible to see as you come in, unless you happen to turn around and look behind you there. I guess it's to tell people they were wrong after they leavel. lol

In any case, it was faaar far from any kind of legal sign. Obviously the location was such that it cannot count as being obviously posted- a tiny metal sign not eye-hight on a wall that you only see on your way out. Also the wordage was nothing legit at all.

Something along the lines of "Weapons, knives, guns, pets, drugs, kitty cats, blue-colored socks, pens, and airplanes are not allowed in this establishment".

I was awefully tempted to go back in and let the cook and all the waiters know that those steak knives were now allowed in Applebees.

Its hard for me to care about a place being 'posted' when it is something that far from legal.