HB0355 (McDonald): Parking lot bill filed 2/7/11

[GKar]

http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/107/Bill/HB0355.pdf

Short, sweet, to the point.

[Guest mosinon]

crap man, that is the kind of legalese I can get behind! I don't know if it will pass but I wish all were this easy to understand.

[Guest gw2and4]

...

Edited February 9, 2011 by gw2and4

[Oh Shoot]

crap man, that is the kind of legalese I can get behind! I don't know if it will pass but I wish all were this easy to understand.

It still ain't simple enough.

It would be much better without the TN HCP proviso and "handgun" should be "firearm" -- should just read "firearm carried in a condition legal under state law" or similar.

That was people who want to hunt or shoot after work, whatever, could have firearm in vehicle without having an HCP.

Also, for the many folks who work in TN but live in bordering states, the wording of the bill would not allow them to have the handgun in car even though they had a permit from their state that TN recognizes.

- OS

[Guest 73challenger]

I wish this would also include university parking lots. This is a great step though. I heard something mentioned about campus carry on the radio earlier but didn't catch much of it.

[RobertNashville]

It still ain't simple enough.

It would be much better without the TN HCP proviso and "handgun" should be "firearm" -- should just read "firearm carried in a condition legal under state law" or similar.

That was people who want to hunt or shoot after work, whatever, could have firearm in vehicle without having an HCP.

Also, for the many folks who work in TN but live in bordering states, the wording of the bill would not allow them to have the handgun in car even though they had a permit from their state that TN recognizes.

- OS

Baby Steps.

I agree, I think that anyone who can legally possess a firearm ought to be able to leave it in their locked vehicle (as described in the bill and of course, so long as they are abiding by all other laws regarding the firearm and not just HCP holders).

I also wish they didn't specifically and only mention handguns...when I shoot skeet (or try to) on summer evenings I need to have my shotgun and gear in my vehicle, not just a handgun.

But...this is a good start and just because we start here this year doesn't mean it has to end with just this bill. Moreover, I think this legislature stands a good chance of passing it and, judging from what (now) Governor Haslam said when he came to our TFA meeting, I suspect he'll sign this if it gets to his desk.

[Links2k]

I hope is passes, but it will do me little good. Uncle Sam will not allow it.

[Guest mosinon]

It still ain't simple enough.

It would be much better without the TN HCP proviso and "handgun" should be "firearm" -- should just read "firearm carried in a condition legal under state law" or similar.

That was people who want to hunt or shoot after work, whatever, could have firearm in vehicle without having an HCP.

Also, for the many folks who work in TN but live in bordering states, the wording of the bill would not allow them to have the handgun in car even though they had a permit from their state that TN recognizes.

- OS

I concur. Heck, when I was a kid you could roll into a school parking lot with the shotguns you went hunting with still in the gun rack!

On the other hand, I still wonder if this will actually work. TN is an at will state and I don't see anything in there that prevents me from making it a condition of employment for you not to bring your gun to work.

Bring a gun to work? Still fired, you broke company rules. "But, but the law...."

"Shut your mouth, you agreed to our rules when you signed on!"

But if you are already an employee, I think you'd have a case.

[Punisher84]

I concur. Heck, when I was a kid you could roll into a school parking lot with the shotguns you went hunting with still in the gun rack!

On the other hand, I still wonder if this will actually work. TN is an at will state and I don't see anything in there that prevents me from making it a condition of employment for you not to bring your gun to work.

Bring a gun to work? Still fired, you broke company rules. "But, but the law...."

"Shut your mouth, you agreed to our rules when you signed on!"

But if you are already an employee, I think you'd have a case.

I don't think that'd fly. I agree though that they could always fire you for something else if they really wanted to. I hope this passes though.

[Fallguy]

It still ain't simple enough.

It would be much better without the TN HCP proviso and "handgun" should be "firearm" -- should just read "firearm carried in a condition legal under state law" or similar.

That was people who want to hunt or shoot after work, whatever, could have firearm in vehicle without having an HCP.

Also, for the many folks who work in TN but live in bordering states, the wording of the bill would not allow them to have the handgun in car even though they had a permit from their state that TN recognizes.

- OS

Bills are often amended along the way, so substituting firearm for handgun very well could happen.

As far as those that don't live in TN but have permits form their states...I think they are still covered. It says "possesses a valid handgun carry permit pursuant to §39-17-1351" Well 39-17-1351®(1) says A facially valid permit/license from another state is valid in TN. So as long as the employee has a facially valid permit, shouldn't be a problem.

[Oh Shoot]

Bills are often amended along the way, so substituting firearm for handgun very well could happen.

As far as those that don't live in TN but have permits form their states...I think they are still covered. It says "possesses a valid handgun carry permit pursuant to §39-17-1351" Well 39-17-1351®(1) says A facially valid permit/license from another state is valid in TN. So as long as the employee has a facially valid permit, shouldn't be a problem.

Guess I didn't read it as carefully as I thought.

Well, if they stick to the permit requirement, at least that seems covered.

Good catch, thanks.

- OS

[Fallguy]

Guess I didn't read it as carefully as I thought.

Well, if they stick to the permit requirement, at least that seems covered.

Good catch, thanks.

- OS

Yep.....if the no permit required bill makes any headway...will be interesting to see how it could affect this bill.

[JC57]

I certainly hope this gets passed. My wife and I are both HCP holders but are essentially disarmed most of the week because our employers prohibit carry (by policy, not by signage) on their premises. This would allow us both greater safety in our travels to and from work, including any errands or other trips we might have to make along the way.

Not to mention being able to arrive home while armed. Last fall my wife came home to find our home broken into, and of course was unarmed when she arrived. She had already entered the house through the side door before she saw the back door had been kicked in. In that case it appears that the burglars had already fled (with my pistol among other stolen goods, which would not have been there if I had been able to carry it with me). Next time she (or I) might not be so lucky.

The passage of this bill would be a great benefit to all of the responsible legal carry permit holders who only want to be able to protect their safety more than just 2 days a week.

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

I'm kinda surprised that any gun legislation is being introduced this year. Especially since the last 2 years had the restaurant bill fiasco.

[Guest PapaB]

I wish they'd lose this wording;

when such vehicle is parked on property set aside for employee vehicle parking

People working retail aren't covered and some employers could claim their parking lot is for anyone, not set aside for employees.

[Fallguy]

I wish they'd lose this wording;

People working retail aren't covered and some employers could claim their parking lot is for anyone, not set aside for employees.

Well I don't think it necessarily means set aside "only" for employee parking. Just that if it is where employees can park their vehicle...even if that may be where patrons park their vehicle as well.

Just my opinion though.

[bigwakes]

I'll take any step in the right direction. I wish it said firearm instead of handgun, but I'll take it.

[Guest GradStudent]

Does "employer" include universities and schools? Even if it did, it wouldn't help me since I am both an employee and a student. :/

[Guest nicemac]

I just hope all these bills proposed this session are not just being done to appease the gun lobby with no intention of them "really" becoming law. They can always just never get around to them…

Tennessee General Assembly Bill Index Page

[RobertNashville]

I would think that an "employer" is an "employer" but it's difficult to say if it really applies to universities/colleges/schools or not...I'm am pretty certain, however, that without legislation to the contrary, a school can still keep "students" from having firearms on their respective campuses as a matter of school policy.

[Fallguy]

Does "employer" include universities and schools? Even if it did, it wouldn't help me since I am both an employee and a student. :/

I would think that an "employer" is an "employer" but it's difficult to say if it really applies to universities/colleges/schools or not...I'm am pretty certain, however, that without legislation to the contrary, a school can still keep "students" from having firearms on their respective campuses as a matter of school policy.

Even if employer meant "any" employer...and it probably does, it doesn't mean that law would supersede 39-17-1309.

The bill only seem to protect employees from 39-17-1359 and company policies....not any other laws.

[DaveTN]

If this doesn’t get a lot of press it might have a chance. If it gets the attention “guns in bars†got; its dead.

[Sky King]

As one who has pushed and supported legislation of this type for years, I can not be anything but happy about this. There is a big "BUT" though. I really don't hold out much hope for this passing. Having been present at more than one committee and sub-committee hearing on this subject, I can tell you from first hand experience just how hard the bussiness lobby will oppose this.

While I will not say it can not pass, I can say it will absolutely take a lot of support from the public. We ALL will have to take a very active part in pressuring our representatives in Nashville in order to get this passed.

There are a couple things I feel are VERY needed that are not included in this bill that I feel if not totally necessary, very important in getting a bill such as this passed. When you consider that a major part of the business opposition centers around liability, there is nothing in this bill to protect them in that area. In most of the other states that have this protection for the employees, there is also protection from liability for the employer.

Also I would like to see the language not be limited to employees on employers lots. I think it should also extend to other lots open to the public such as shopping centers and malls and so on.

Right now I am leaning more towards legislation that would extend the castle doctrine law to provide this protection. A blatant pro-gun bill is certainly to get the attention of the media. The media will have a field day with this because of statements made by the new House Speaker. Also you know, just as they labeled the restaurant bill as "guns in bars" in order to vilify it in the eye of the public, they will label this as "guns at work" and will be sure to do what they can to associate it with work place violence.

All this is NOT to say I will not support this if it ever makes any progress. I think the language needs a little tweeking but it is certainly a start.

[Fallguy]

Thanks for your input Sky King....I tend to agree with everything you said.

[Sky King]

When I stated that it would take a great deal of public support to get this bill through, I was not kidding. If anything, it was an understatement. I know a lot of people do not have a lot of flexability when it comes to time they can take from their personal schedules. The other real problem is that the General Assembly, and particularly the bill sponsors, committees and sub-committees record of last minute changes. I have traveled to Nashville more than once only to find that the bill I went to support was "ROLLED" and not heard. Also it is not unusual for a bill to be put on a calendar at the last minute with little to no advance notice. A lot depends on whether or not the sponsor feels the bill has any chance or support. He or she would rather roll the bill to another date than have it killed in committee.

I do feel privileged in that I often can ask for a day off with as little as a day notice IF the calendar at work is not already full for that day.

With all that said, when I say a lot of support, I also mean that when possible, we would need as many people to go to Nashville to be present in the committee and sub-committee hearings when bills of interest are heard. No, not everybody is going to speak but the presence of many people in a show of support is important.

SO, if this bill is as important as many of here claim, then we all need to monitor the Tennessee General Assembly web site to see when this bill will be heard. You can track a bill by the bill number. It will state what committee it is assigned to and it will also tell you when it has been placed on a calendar to be heard. If you possibly can, you need to be there. Let the sponsor know that you will be there.

I can GUARANTEE the business lobby will have MANY people there to testify against it. The last time I spoke, there were only TWO of us for it and at least 8 to 10 business representatives and lobiests against it. So you know how THAT looked.

I can only sum it up with this, if you want it, actions speak a HELL of a lot louder than emails and phone calls. Sorry for the venacular but that is the way it is. It is time to put up or shut up. Lord willing and the creek don't rise, I will be there.