Advice on a Winchester 1893/1897

[SKINDOG]

I'm considering buying either a winchester 1893 or 1897 as my next gun, but I need some personal advice and opinions on them before I make a decision. Has anyone ever shot them before? Do they have smooth actions? Are they only made of steel or is it a mixture of steel and alloy? How does the stock feel? I know the 1897 can be taken apart easily for cleaning, but what are the other differences? Any information or advice would be awesome.

[leroy]

Skindog:_______________

If you are asking about the old Winchester 1897; they are (...in my opinion...) the finest pump shotgun you will ever handle or shoot. The problem is that parts are getting hard to find and the shotguns are becoming antiques instead of working tools. We have a couple of them; one from the 1920's and one from the mid fifties. They are riot guns and they work great. The 97 has no disconnector, so they will slam fire when you pump them while holding the trigger back; so be careful. The guns shoot great. They are all steel and have the usual steel shotgun heft. The stocks are always good; and the action is smooth (...if the gun is clean and it hasn't been mistreated....). The ones that "takedown easy" are the "takedown models". Be aware, there are some solid frame 97's that you cant take down.

As you can see; i'm a near worshiper of the ole 97. All that being said; if you intend to shoot one much, i sugguest that you get one of the chinese copies that the cowboy action guys use. I really like the cimmaron model. Link here: Shotguns - Cimarron Firearms - Old West Guns and Cowboy Action Shooting Firearms,#. You can usually find them on Gunbroker for about 500 bucks.

For more reading check this out: Winchester Model 1897 Riot Gun.

In my opinion, the two greatest firearms that John M Browning invented were the Winchester model 97 and the colt 1911.

Hope this little bit of cheering helps!!

leroy

[SKINDOG]

That was actually very helpful. This might be a stupid question, but do they need the bluing on them or would they be ok without it? Almost every one that I've seen no longer has the bluing on it. I'm not a trap shooter or anything so I don't think I would shoot it too much. I usually use my Browning BPS for hunting. Is there any reason for not using it besides trying to keep the gun in good condition because its an antique or are there other reasons? Two more questions and my curiosity will be satisfied. Is the Cimarron made the exact same way as the Winchester or are there differences? Can you use modern day 2 3/4" shells in the Winchester or do you have to buy or handload special ammunition for it?

[leroy]

Skindog:______________

No such sthing as "stupid questions". These are legitimate questions that need answering.

RE: The bluing question. I wouldn't worry about the bluing being rubbed off. I think that is part of the charm of these old shotguns. I would never re-blue one of them.

It won't hurt anything as long as you keep them wiped down (...i always use a moisture displacing lube like Birchwood Casey Sheath or whatever else is on sale...) and i think they look great that way. Every time you re-blue a gun, the re-bluing guy will try to polish them a bit. It rounds the edges of the weapon and lightens the engraving and stamping. It also lowers the resale value. Remember, these old shotguns are from 60 to 90 years old. That's a long time to be around.

RE: The hunting question. The model 97 and it's later brother, the model 12 has probably killed more sporting game than any other pump shotgun in existence. They were made for hunting. If you like handling and shooting it; by all means hunt with it. You are having the privledge of experiencing what the old timers experienced and seeing for yourself exactly why these old shotguns are so great. The model 97 (...and the model 12...) are the "fathers" of the Browning BPS.

RE: Similarity in manufacture. My guess is that the cimmaron is built exactly like the old guns using CNC tooling and better steel. The chinese guys are bad to "reverse engineer" things by taking them apart and making them exactly like the original; which aint a bad thing in my opinion. That is exactly how the italians did all the cap and ball colt copy black powder revolvers. I don't know that for sure; but i would almost bet a paycheck on it. This question may be answered in a Cowboy Action Shooting Forum or from this guy (...link here: CVV Home Page/ ...). You may need to check out a Cowboy Action Shooting forum for details. Just Google for it.

RE: Any of the old winchesters should be ok shooting modern low brass (...standard velocity...) shells. We've shot the high brass buckshot loads thru our twenties model with no ill effects. All that being said, i would have a good gunsmith look it over if it looks a bit loose.

Hope this helps.

leroy

[SKINDOG]

Thank you for all the information you shared with me. It was extremely helpful and I appreciate you taking the time to answer all of my questions.

[leroy]

Glad to do it!!

leroy