Carry on Private Property & TVA Property

[Guest Bearing]

I promise I used the forum search, but I don't believe this exact question has been asked.

#1. My understanding is that, on my own property, I do not need a HCP to carry a loaded gun on my person. So my question is this: do the same rules apply to another person's property if they give permission to me?

#2. There are a lot of regulations regarding carry on public/semi-public lands, to my understanding, including (I think?) prohibitions on carrying on TVA land. My question here is, what are the rules about the TVA land that spans the distance between lakes and private property? In other words, is carry on the TVA land that divides my relative's property from a TVA-controlled lake also prohibited?

Basically, I'm a fairly new gun owner, and I'm going to be staying at a friend's property in the near future. I do not (yet) hold a HCP. I want to carry for protection (it's pretty remote). There's also a portion of the property that runs down to a TVA lake, and I need to know if I'm allowed to carry down across the TVA property line or if I need to be disarmed if I go down there.

Thanks and sorry if I'm asking stupid questions or if I'm asking something that's been asked before (I promise I looked as best I could before I posted!)

[Erik88]

If you're on private, remote, property and you have permission to be there then I wouldn't worry about it.

[JayC]

As I read the law, you're only allowed to carry at your residence, place of business or premises (read TCA 39-17-1308a).... So your neighbors property is not covered, unless it's also your place of business, unless you have an HCP.

There are a couple of other defenses listed in 39-17-1308, but it's unlikely they'll cover what you're talking about.

[Oh Shoot]

TVA land is gray. Some of their campgrounds used to be/are posted, dunno.

There also seems to be a significant diff between actual TVA "reservation" land, like right at a dam, and TVA "access owned" properties, which are generally administered by TWRA folks, who don't care as long as you're carrying legally otherwise.

There's a famous letter floating around somewhere from TWRA that basically says, "don't worry about public access areas where you put in boats", etc.

Obviously, TVA (or TWRA) doesn't have a history of hassling folks for guns, or it would be well known.

This is my gray answer for a continuing gray question, how'd I do?

- OS

[Guest BEARMAN]

TVA land is gray. Some of their campgrounds used to be/are posted, dunno.

There also seems to be a significant diff between actual TVA "reservation" land, like right at a dam, and TVA "access owned" properties, which are generally administered by TWRA folks, who don't care as long as you're carrying legally otherwise.

There's a famous letter floating around somewhere from TWRA that basically says, "don't worry about public access areas where you put in boats", etc.

Obviously, TVA (or TWRA) doesn't have a history of hassling folks for guns, or it would be well known.

This is my gray answer for a continuing gray question, how'd I do?

- OS

You did good OhShoot. However, I might add that if you have a TVA powerline right-of-way running through a piece of private property; the owner of said property has control over the land rights and civilian access. The TVA just has access rights to service their equipment and right of way on said property, including unlimited access, day or night, 24-7 for this purpose.

[Fallguy]

Sounds like OS and BEARMAN have covered TVA/TWRA land as well as, if not better, than I could. Of course without a HCP carry would be illegal period.

I also have to agree with JayC on private property away from your Residence, place of buisness or premises, in that technically no other private property is mentioned. However firiring ranges are not mentioned either..and I've never heard of anyone being charged for carry at a range. So seems like another grey area. You probably "could" be charged, but I would say it is unlikely.

[Guest clownsdd]

Ain't no stupid questions if you don't know or can't find the answer.

[Guest 270win]

You don't need a handgun carry permit if you are using/carrying a handgun as a hunting device that is legal tackle for whatever you are hunting. You can usually carrying a 4 inch barrel centerfire handgun during modern gun deer season. You can usually carry a rimfire handgun during small game season. Check the TWRA book. You of course need a hunting license. Hunting regs can be confusing.

I, for example, have always carried a minimum 4 inch barrel centerfire handgun while deer hunting so I don't have to carry my rifle with me when looking for a deer that I have shot. I can use the handgun to put the deer down, if necessary, because it is a legal hunting device. It is a lot easier to keep both hands free. I cannot use my snub revolver to put a deer down while hunting because it is not a legal hunting device in TN.

[Guest 270win]

39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon. —

(a) It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:

(4) Incident to lawful hunting, trapping, fishing, camping, sport shooting or other lawful activity;

I've always looked at #4 as basically the 'outdoor' activity defense for people using firearms in TN. Folks don't need a handgun carry permit to take their rifle to the woods to shoot coke cans, hunt, fish, pistol to have fun out in the field, carry a handgun while hiking, that sort of thing. At least that is my understanding of #4. I would assume that someone would be legal to carry a handgun way out in the woods, because it is in the woods on say paper company land or national forest land while out camping and knocking around and to me #4 confirms that. There may be some GAME regs though to follow if you are on TWRA land though or state parks. But criminally, taking a gun out in the woods for outdoor activity seems legal without a handgun carry permit.

[JayC]

Sounds like OS and BEARMAN have covered TVA/TWRA land as well as, if not better, than I could. Of course without a HCP carry would be illegal period.

I also have to agree with JayC on private property away from your Residence, place of buisness or premises, in that technically no other private property is mentioned. However firiring ranges are not mentioned either..and I've never heard of anyone being charged for carry at a range. So seems like another grey area. You probably "could" be charged, but I would say it is unlikely.

39-17-1308a4 covers "shooting sports" which would cover ranges IMHO.

Incident to lawful hunting, trapping, fishing, camping, sport shooting or other lawful activity

[Fallguy]

You don't need a handgun carry permit if you are using/carrying a handgun as a hunting device that is legal tackle for whatever you are hunting. You can usually carrying a 4 inch barrel centerfire handgun during modern gun deer season. You can usually carry a rimfire handgun during small game season. Check the TWRA book. You of course need a hunting license. Hunting regs can be confusing.

I, for example, have always carried a minimum 4 inch barrel centerfire handgun while deer hunting so I don't have to carry my rifle with me when looking for a deer that I have shot. I can use the handgun to put the deer down, if necessary, because it is a legal hunting device. It is a lot easier to keep both hands free. I cannot use my snub revolver to put a deer down while hunting because it is not a legal hunting device in TN.

You do need a hunting license and whatever game to be in season to be legally hunting though....

[vontar]

TVA at Bullrun has this sign.

take it for what it means to you. We have discussed this before. Sure it may not cover all 3 parts of a legal posting but I know what they mean.

[Guest 270win]

I would think the bottom part of that sign might be the most important part to know in case you hear that warning siren. I've never been on TVA land, but i'm guessing if there is some sort of power plant and that siren goes off, something might be bad wrong and time to leave ASAP!

Yes, a hunting license is very important when you are carrying whatever gun you claim to be using for hunting. You can get just a small game license pretty cheap if you don't deer hunt and carry a 22 pistol. If you go on WMA land you have to add a WMA type permit to your license. The sportsman's license in TN is kind of expensive at 136 bucks. There's some small game that is year round, like coyotes.

I figure you can probably just carry whatever gun you want on private property/leased land out in the woods while out hiking and camping under that #4 because that is an outdoors activity without any sort of handgun carry permit. It doesn't seem the legislature intended folks to be licensed when just carrying a gun in the woods or fishing (you probably again would have to do that on private land to be compliant with state game regs and state park regs). For example, I can take my shotgun over to a buddy's pond while I fish. Seems legal under #4.

Edited February 9, 2011 by 270win

[LagerHead]

As I read the law, you're only allowed to carry at your residence, place of business or premises (read TCA 39-17-1308a).... So your neighbors property is not covered, unless it's also your place of business, unless you have an HCP.

There are a couple of other defenses listed in 39-17-1308, but it's unlikely they'll cover what you're talking about.

He did say he was going to be "staying" there. If it's for an extended period of time I think it would be counted as a residence. Wouldn't hurt to clarify that with local law enforcement though.

[East_TN_Patriot]

These types of discussions always remind me of this quote:

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." - Ayn Rand

[JayC]

These types of discussions always remind me of this quote:

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." - Ayn Rand

Boy Ayn Rand called it pretty clear so many years ago.