Does she qualify?

[Guest SleeveleSS]

My girlfriend lives in East Nashville and is an avid runner. She's had several scary incidents and she's contemplating concealed carry. The only hiccup I can see is that at 15 she was treated for an eating disorder that put her in a psychiatric ward for 72 hours. It was a state ordered 10-13. Will this disqualify her from a permit? It seems stupid to think she might not be able to protect herself because of an eating disorder in high school. Thanks for any help in advance.

[dralarms]

It would seem that the only correct answer would be the one recevied from the State of TN.

[The Rabbi]

Shall not have been adjudicated as mental defective; has not been committed to or hospitalized in a mental institution; has not had a court appoint a conservator for the applicant by reason of a mental defect; has not been judicially determined to be disabled by reason of a mental illness, development disability or other mental incapacity; and has not, within seven (7) years from the date of application, been found by a court to pose an immediate substantial likelihood of serious harm, as defined in Title 33, Chapter 6, Part 5, because of mental illness;

From the state website.

The answer is I don't know. It is possible/likely that the records were closed due to her being a juvenile. If she is prohibited she can always apply to have her rights restored.

I would either call TBI and ask since they have the ultimate say or consult an attorney.

[Marswolf]

I don't have a definitive answer, but suspect her records, as a juvenile are sealed.

Just have her go down and try to buy the gun she wants to carry. If she gets turned down, it won't cost much and it's a nice surreptitious way to find out. Asking the authorities for an opinion is probably a bad idea.

[Marswolf]

Hey Rabbi, GM sorta TA.

Just wish one of us had a great mind.

[Guest SleeveleSS]

From the state website.

The answer is I don't know. It is possible/likely that the records were closed due to her being a juvenile. If she is prohibited she can always apply to have her rights restored.

I would either call TBI and ask since they have the ultimate say or consult an attorney.

Wow, you guys respond fast. I read the state website and that's why I wasn't sure. If I call the TBI can I just ask the simple question without having to give out information? In other words, is the only way she can find out by applying and if she gets turned down then the answer is no? If that's the case then it is going to cost her 115 bucks to find out, correct? If she does get turned down is there a way to appeal on a case by case basis? Thanks.

[The Rabbi]

Mars, I thought about suggesting she go try to buy one. Then I had second thoughts because the 4473 specifically asks about this and I dont want to recommend to someone to lie on a Federal form. There might be a way to interpret the question so she isn't lying however. It depends on the meaning of "is" perhaps.

[The Rabbi]

Wow, you guys respond fast. I read the state website and that's why I wasn't sure. If I call the TBI can I just ask the simple question without having to give out information? In other words, is the only way she can find out by applying and if she gets turned down then the answer is no? If that's the case then it is going to cost her 115 bucks to find out, correct? If she does get turned down is there a way to appeal on a case by case basis? Thanks.

Hey, we're good on TGO!

I believe you could call and ask without giving identifying information. And if she can qualify to buy one she can most likely qualify for a carry permit. And that would only cost her $10 to find out.

Did anyone mention Eastside Gun Shop, conveniently located in E.Nashville?

[Marswolf]

Mars, I thought about suggesting she go try to buy one. Then I had second thoughts because the 4473 specifically asks about this and I dont want to recommend to someone to lie on a Federal form. There might be a way to interpret the question so she isn't lying however. It depends on the meaning of "is" perhaps.

Yeah, you are right. I just filled out one of those the other day and made sure to read everything as I knew the form had changed.

I doubt she would get in trouble, but it's a possibility.

I had a friend in high school who said his father always told him that if he got into trouble, to act dumb as hell. I have used that technique occasionally in life to my advantage. But to pull it off, you need to be smart as hell.

[towerclimber37]

heh..that's why I'm as honest as the day is long...

[dralarms]

Hey, we're good on TGO!

I believe you could call and ask without giving identifying information. And if she can qualify to buy one she can most likely qualify for a carry permit. And that would only cost her $10 to find out.

Did anyone mention Eastside Gun Shop, conveniently located in E.Nashville?

Shameless plug.

[Marswolf]

heh..that's why I'm as honest as the day is long...

Well hell, you'd never make it in my world.

[Rightwinger]

Hey, we're good on TGO!

I believe you could call and ask without giving identifying information. And if she can qualify to buy one she can most likely qualify for a carry permit. And that would only cost her $10 to find out.

Did anyone mention Eastside Gun Shop, conveniently located in E.Nashville?

Make sure you use a public phone that is not in view of any of the traffic cameras. Also be sure there are no black helicopters in the area when you call. Immediately wipe the phone down when done with soft cloth:tinfoil:

[Guest Engloid]

There's a link somebody posted the other day that shows the stats of how many permit holders per county. In each county's section, it states reasons that permits were denied. In most I read, it would say something like "failure to disclose previous ....."

That makes it sound like they'd have been given the permit if they had disclosed it.

I'd see if you can get a hold of somebody with the state and ask them. I'm sure they will appreciate your willingness to be honest, rather than try and slide through...which could get you in big trouble if you get caught.

Go review the form and see the specific questions it asks. Maybe it will answer your questions. If worse comes to worse, apply for it, but don't lie...and see what happens.

[Fallguy]

There's a link somebody posted the other day that shows the stats of how many permit holders per county. In each county's section, it states reasons that permits were denied. In most I read, it would say something like "failure to disclose previous ....."

I also noticed on the states TICS site that nearly 50% of gun purchases that were denied were appoved upon appeal. So the first answer isn't always the only answer.

"IMO" it sounds more like a 72 hour evaluation instead of being commited, but I have been known to be wrong.

I would read the question, and see if she "honestly" thinks whether or not she had mental disorder or was commited against her will.

[Guest canynracer]

if she was a minor when it happened, you can request that the court seal the records...I dont think they do it automatically, I know in CA I had to specifically request that the state seal my juvenille record.

Good Luck!

[ZenDog]

Caveat: I am not a lawyer. But I am someone who works in the mental health system.

It doesn't sound like she was treated in the hospital or hospitalized for any treatment- it sounds like she was evaluated and released after the maximum 3 day watching-holding period. But- they can do this sort of thing in any hospital, not just mental ones-- it is not uncommon at all for an ER to hold someone for a day or longer to evaluate their mental status.

So, in my opinion, (again, I am not a lawyer and I could be way off base with this) this does not meet the spirit of the law. She might technically not qualify, but I don't think that what she went through is what the law intends to screen out.

And, if she was a minor, she had no legal ability to consent to (or refuse) treatment at any inpatient mental health facility-- that would have had to come from parents or some other authority (like the state).

So basically minors who are treated in psych facilities are legally incapable of being there voluntarily even if they know they need that kind of help and even if they want that help. So I don't think the "involuntarily committed" question legally can apply to a minor- I think it is a question that applies only to persons with adult status (For example, minors cannot legally voluntarily consent to have sex with adults, even if they want to-- same principle-- it is always legally involuntary with minors.)

Just some thoughts. No answers, but thoughts.

[Fallguy]

I think ZenDog "honestly" answered the question and pretty much hit the nail on the head.

[Marswolf]

Make sure you use a public phone that is not in view of any of the traffic cameras.

Nashville has lots of traffic cameras.

http://www.trafficland.com/city/BNA/index.html

[Guest TNDixieGirl]

Zen's reasoning sounds right to me.

[Guest canynracer]

Go Zen!!! you are my GD hero!! LOL

[Fallguy]

...and just to back up what has been said.

Here is TN AG Opinion 03-118 which says admission for "evaluation" does not a disqualify someone, only admission for treatment.

[Guest TargetShooter84]

I have to agree with Zen on this one....He pretty much summed everything up just about right. I would take Rabbi's advice and go to the gun store and buy a gun, its only 10 bucks for a background check, plus its alot cheaper than shelling out 115 bucks for a denied application.