AR, AK?

[molonlabetn]

Oops, I beg pardon... That's what I meant. Thanks for catching that.

[Guest Fastzntn]

Recently I had the opportunity to shoot an AK and an AR back to back. I was really quite surprised with my experience.

AK- this was a surplus gun. When it was actually shooting the barrel got EXTREMELY hot. It was being shot semi-auto, and I was surprised at the heat because I would assume it was meant to be shot auto, or at least reasonably capable of that. Gun was reasonably accurate, but not as accurate as the AR. I was even more surprised that the gun would double feed a lot. It double fed so much that we ended up not shooting it anymore. The reputation of reliability on AK's can't be an urban myth, so I'm not really sure what was going on with this one. However, since there seems to be quite a few configurations/options with the AK, if I were buying one I'd make sure it had the chrome lined barrel.

Next I shot the Bushmaster AR. Not sure of what configuration. The gun arrived in a nice padded case and was so clean you could eat off of it. Less recoil than the AK and a little more accurate. After firing you could hear what I'm told is the recoil spring rattling around inside the gun. They tell me it's normal, but in my opinion it made it sound a bit cheap. After about 100-125 rounds one of the casings got stuck in the chamber. The gun was partially disassembled but we weren't able to get the casing out at the range so that gun was out for the day. The owner thinks the cause of failure was insufficient oil.

At the end of the day the only rifle still firing was my M1 Carbine. Handy little gun, and I can't say enough about them from an accuracy standpoint and reliability. However some people insist on having more power.

If I had to choose between AR and AK, I'd lean towards getting a quality AK and as has been suggested, put the money you save on the gun towards ammo.

[Guest drewi]

After about 100-125 rounds one of the casings got stuck in the chamber. The gun was partially disassembled but we weren't able to get the casing out at the range so that gun was out for the day. The owner thinks the cause of failure was insufficient oil.

That's not insufficient oil. That's something going wrong in the chamber (assuming your extractor didn't break). It could also have something to do with ammo, or the manufacture of the barrel itself. I'm seeing more and more stuck cases in AR's but I can't say with scientific certainty what the problem is.

If you shoot AR15's you need to take a rigid cleaning rod to the range. Oh, and get a good chamber brush.

[molonlabetn]

Were you shooting Wolf ammo?

Steel cases are suceptible to chewing up extractors, and having their rims deformed. Chromed chambers help with extraction, but steel cases do stick more often than brass.

It could also have been a rough chamber... and, the AK feed issue might have been a magazine problem.

Just some possibilities.

[Guest Fastzntn]

Honestly I'm not sure on the ammo. I want to say it was surplus, but I really am not 100% sure. The AK ammo was bought from Academy Sports and Outdoors. It was definitely Russian as it was in light blue boxes with cyrillic letters on it. Inside the small box the rounds were packaged in almost the same manner as the surplus ammo for my Mosin-Nagant. A number of rounds were bundled together inside medium weight brown paper and tied with thread. I was thinking that someone had bought a bunch of surplus in bulk and simply placed 20 rounds each into a small box, but again I'm not 100% sure. I do recall it being brass cased.

[Guest GlocKingTN]

I also agree on the AR!

[Guest Steelharp]

Fastzntn...

At the end of the day the only rifle still firing was my M1 Carbine. Handy little gun, and I can't say enough about them from an accuracy standpoint and reliability.

You know, I hadn't even thought of that option. I just might look for one of those, instead.

[Guest drewi]

Fastzntn...

You know, I hadn't even thought of that option. I just might look for one of those, instead.

That's not a rifle. Not trying to be harsh or anything.

That's a gun more capable (power wise) than a pistol but not as capable as a rifle chambered in an intermediate catridge like 5.56, 5.45x39, or 7.62x39. But don't get me wrong it's a dang nice gun!

Funny thing about the AK. If you look real close you will see an M1 Rifle and an M1 Carbine in that design.

[Guest Steelharp]

I have a Ruger PC9 carbine around here; how would you rate that, on a home defense scale?

[molonlabetn]

I have a Ruger PC9 carbine around here; how would you rate that, on a home defense scale?

Adequete for close-quarters, to be sure. But, in that same-size platform, a rifle caliber is far more befitting, and certainly more effective. If you're not dead-set on a semi-automatic, then a good lever-action .357magnum would be very nice to have... It won't have the same volume/rate of fire as a .30carbine M1, but it will hit just as hard (since hopefully you wouldn't be 'praying and spraying' inside the house!!!).

[Guest Steelharp]

Not a real fan of the lever action thing... this may really sound stupid, but would an M1 carbine be more effective than the PC9?

[molonlabetn]

Yes!

.30carbine delivers performance comparative to .357magnum (through similar-length barrels).... Or, another way to look at it is comperable to 7.62x39mm with slightly lighter bullets (110gr vs. 123gr), at lower velocities (1900fps vs. 2100fps). But, either way you look at it, it's head and shoulders above 9mm, especially using modern loads.

[Guest Steelharp]

So... maybe I should think about selling the Ruger, and putting those funds toward acquiring an M1 carbine... hmmm...

[Guest drewi]

Correct me if I'm wrong but you'll get higher magazine capacity with the M1 Carbine. Higher than pistol carbines with pistol magazines that is.

Plus you get to own a piece of history.

[Mike]

+1 for the M1 carbine. A very fun rifle to shoot, and you can get 5, 10 and 30 round mags for it!

[SkWaShDeM]

+1 for the M1 Carbine since the CMP is about to get a horde of them for the army to sell to deserving civilians at what we hope will be reasonable price points.

[DaveTN]

+1 for the M1 Carbine since the CMP is about to get a horde of them for the army to sell to deserving civilians at what we hope will be reasonable price points.

I'm picking my M1 Carbine up next week.

But on Steelharp's orginal question....

I would go with the AR platform, but I would go with an AR-10 not an AR-15.

The .308 is far superior to the .223 if you need to stop the threat of an armed opponent. But the .223 is great if you want something that is cheap to shoot and is deadly against paper targets or gelatin blocks.

[Guest mc30707]

I recently traded in an arsenal slr95 (7.62*39) on a RRA entry tactical. I have to say the controls on the AR are far superior to the AK. As yet I've had no issues with the AR, but the AK always functioned flawlessly. I like both, but the AR just feels better to me.

[Rightwinger]

Get a good quality AR in 5.56 then use that lower in conjunction with the other uppers out there now to have a full tool box for each and every need.

Get a .204 upper for long range laser tight varmint hunting.

Get a .458 SOCOM for deer hunting. 300 gr, 405 gr up to 600 gr bullets available and no mods needed to your AR or mags (other than the complete upper, get it from Teppo Jutsu).

Get a 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel for hunting, medium range plinking, etc (needs 6.8 or 6.5 mags to use with your lower)

There are several other uppers and calibers out there and I haven't even looked myself at whats coming for the larger AR10/.308 sized lowers. I ahve heard .243, 30-06, and a whole slew of wildcats.

What can you change an AK over to by pulling two pins and slipping on another upper....?

[molonlabetn]

What can you change an AK over to by pulling two pins and slipping on another upper....?

I can have enough money left over to buy several complete guns for different tasks...

[Rightwinger]

a complete 6.8 SPC upper with no frills is $475.00. Not to much to have another fully functional rifle and less storage space as well.

[Mark@Sea]

I'm wanting an m1 carbine myself.

CMP got more than 13,000 Inlands. They are selling 1 to a customer. The Inlands sold out in 18 days.

September 4th, CMP starts accepting orders for the Underwoods, which was the next largest pile, so to speak. They have 3,200 Underwoods, and expect to sell out in 1 or 2 days.

I may not be able to get my order in on time - I'll be at sea most of the remainder of the month and probably won't be able to get the order notarized and mailed in time.

Dern it.

The carbine is light and handy. While not a 'riflemans' rifle' - 100 yards effective range - inside of 100 yards, and especially at common SHTF range (home defense, for example) 15 rounds of .30 carbine, ballistically similiar to the .357 magnum - especially loaded with soft hollow points, will certainly get the job done in a workmanlike fashion.

The size and weight make it an attractive companion for walking the woods. The light recoil makes it an option for training young, or female shooters. Well, not comprehensive marksmanship training, to be sure, but certainly a fun introduction to centerfire long arm.

I have had AK's. I have had AR's. For home defense / GP fun, I'd recommend the carbine. Heck, get yourself a CMP carbine, and if you don't like it, we can do a swap on an M4(gery).

Hey, I've just offended BOTH sides of the AK/AR argument. How cool is that?