Can't use Bersa for HCP test

[DRM]

Those were exactly my sentiments in an earlier post. One thing you didn't mention was they were willing to provide an alternative gun and ammo at no charge.

The owner stated that *here*, I don't see any mention that the young lady was informed of that at the time of her experience. Good offers aren't good if they were never offered

[jay1313g]

I've never been to RangeMaster but, I called them one time and 6 seconds in to the call, I thought I had Guns and Ammo on the phone. (I will only go to Guns and Ammo if I can't find what I want ANYWHERE else.)

Tom has a great reputation as a trainer but, his marketing strategy to get the mainstream HCP class people does not seem to have the right "icing on the cake". Range USA doesn't have the high end "tactical" reputation that RangeMaster does but, boy do they have the mainstream recipe right! They are necessarily in the "gun" sales business and post their markup right on the wall. (Right across from the restaurant if you've never seen it.) They make their money doing the classes and renting lanes. To do this, you simply have to keep people moving through the system.

Scott Kilby, the owner of Range USA, spent years working for a company that is known for great marketing and customer service. He certainly found a way to transition that experience to his employees at Range USA. I don't know Tom Givens but, I'd venture to say that's not his background and his expectations of employee behavior are quite different.

I'm not saying one is better than the other.... Just different marketing strategies and it sounds like your daughter may be better served by Range USA. If she wants to get to the heavy duty stuff, visit RangeMaster again but, know what to expect.

Just my thoughts and opinion on the matter.

[Guest Tygarys]

I have to say, since moving out here, I am no longer surprised that this happened. It seems to be very common out here, and may be spreading to other areas. I think its just that some don't like that people are opting for some of the high-quality/lower priced stuff over high-quality/high priced stuff. When I took my NM CHL class I was concerned that they were not going to let me do the revolver qualification due to fact that I was using a Taurus for it.

As far as Rangemaster, I took my TN HCP class from them some years ago, and have been there many times. My experience with the staff has varied over those visits. For the most part they have been good, but sometimes it does go the other way. I eventually learned the best times to go to avoid those staff members. It could vary depending on who was working the counter that day. To their credit, RM will give you use of a rental and ammo for free for their class, out here most places will make you pay for that on top of the already high class prices.

[Guest .45packer]

I took my HCP class at Mt. Juliet PD. Was a great experience!! Tell her to check it out....

[Transplanted Hoosier]

I've heard that before about Rangemasters. Tell her to go to Top Brass in Millington. Those guys will take care of her.

[Guest Tygarys]

I've heard that before about Rangemasters. Tell her to go to Top Brass in Millington. Those guys will take care of her.

They probably don't call potential customers "dumbass" in their newsletters either.

[Steelharp]

Mr. Givens; sounds like you may have some staff issues to address... judging from some of the posts here.

[Guest 85rx-7gsl-se]

Those were exactly my sentiments in an earlier post. One thing you didn't mention was they were willing to provide an alternative gun and ammo at no charge.

To me I always thought a big part of firearm ownership and training was using a weapon you were comfortable with? If she is comfortable with shooting the Bersa then why force her to shoot something else she may not be as comfortable shooting? It seems like that could create a greater risk than a possible delay if a Bersa jams...

[tnhawk]

Mr. Givens; sounds like you may have some staff issues to address... judging from some of the posts here.

No problem - I found the exit door quickly. I'd guess on a different day, I might have had a different impression, but I saw no reason to go back again.

Edited February 1, 2011 by tnhawk

[adam42]

Take your business somewhere else, by law you can shoot what you want. Remind him you are the customer paying the bill.

[Guest Guy N. Cognito]

Gosh, if I avoided every range where I encountered someone with a less-than-friendly attitude, well, I wouldn't be shooting too much.

There are three sides to every story. The third side is the truth. I've taken a few classes at RM and can attest that Givens is a first class trainer. That said, it would be quite disingenuous to pretend that RM doesn't have some employees that need remedial customer service training. I took a class in the late 90s I'm which one of RMs instructors went to great lengths to ridicule anyone using a polymer pistol. His comments went well beyond good natured ribbing, and only stopped when his own personal sidearm chucked multiple times on the range, while our "toys" continued to function perfectly. Certain employees there do have a "range commando" attitude, which is certainly off-putting to some newer shooters.

On the other hand, I can understand why RM might ban certain firearms that seem problematic. Novices tend to do stupid thing when a firearm malfunctions. More than once I have looked down the barrel of another shooters firearm as he has tried to clear a malfunction. It not only delays the class, but it causes a risk to fellow shooters. It would be my experience, however, that wholesale banning any firearm that malfunctioned frequently would mean that Mr. Givens should also ban the entire 1911 platform as well. RM seems to be more than fair in providing a replacement gun free of charge, but it sounds like his associate may need to learn how to better convey that info to potential clients. Of course, that may have happened, and just wasn't relayed to us in third- hand story told here.

[Lumber_Jack]

Gosh, if I avoided every range where I encountered someone with a less-than-friendly attitude, well, I wouldn't be shooting too much.

I heard that!!

RM seems to be more than fair in providing a replacement gun free of charge, but it sounds like his associate may need to learn how to better convey that info to potential clients. Of course, that may have happened, and just wasn't relayed to us in third- hand story told here.

We will never know how it went down. I agree tho, this is a reasonable offer, but every other thread about HCP says "qualify with the gun your gonna carry". I like the philosiphy that you should be able to qualify with your carry gun, otherwise practice a little more. In this case, I think both parties would be better off if the OP tested at another location. I'd assume RM wouldnt lose any sleep overthat.

Edit: I do understand that Helen Keller could pass the HCP test, so the qualifying gun is really a mute point. Although the guy next to me failed, out of 50 rds he prob had 12 holes in the paper.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Lumber_Jack

[Guest HvyMtl]

Our staff sees about a million rounds go downrange every year, and have for 15 years. That is way more opportunity to see how various brands work/hold up than any individual shooter will ever see. People bring in Bersa pistols to shoot fairly frequently when the range is available to the public. We VERY often have to go out and show them how to clear repeated malfunctions or explain what happened when the gun broke, as in a part breaks. We have a Bersa in the classroom donated by a student because the front of the slide broke off and fell on the bench on the 7th shot out of a new gun.

In class, we have 20 students shooting and a schedule to keep, so when people show up with a Bersa or other gun with a similar track record, we loan them a gun of ours and supply the ammo for it, at no charge. If, after the class, they want to carry the (insert whatever brand here) they are free to do so, but by loaning them a better gun we avoid tying up class time repeatedly fixing guns that don't work. That makes the experience better for all the other students in that class. That's not being an asshat.

Once you get your HCP, carry whatever you like.

Really? I call B.S. In the HCP class I had there were 60 people - over 20 had bersa. Most had the 380 caliber. I had the UC45. All scored high enough to pass the gun portion - zero issues. The gunshop attached to the range commented how little they had issues with the Bersa. Less than other "higher end" pistols.

Besides, using some other firearm, instead of what you carry, well... The test is, hopefully, the only time a HCP will be under stress when shooting. What better time to make sure the firearm is best for you in the circumstances?

Basically, I would point to gun snobbery, and would leave. And apparently, the person telling her no, did so in such a negative manner, she is no longer comfortable with the class. Yet another reason to look elsewhere.

It smacks of upselling, trying to get the person to buy a higher cost firearm. Perhaps if you lose enough customers, your opinion will change.

Edited February 1, 2011 by HvyMtl

[TGO David]

I took my HCP class at Mt. Juliet PD. Was a great experience!! Tell her to check it out....

Mt. Juliet is a bit of a drive from Memphis.

[Lumber_Jack]

Mt. Juliet is a bit of a drive from Memphis.

I think he was refereing to the point that, if she came "home" to Gallatin to take the test as some have suggested, she should go there. but im just guessing, otherwise that would be some haul just for and HCP

[Punisher84]

They probably don't call potential customers "dumbass" in their newsletters either.

Yea I thought that was a nice touch. Not all of us roll out of bed up to the RM standard though I guess.

It smacks of upselling, trying to get the person to buy a higher cost firearm. Perhaps if you lose enough customers, your opinion will change.

Oh they've already lost plenty. There are 2 major ranges in Memphis. RangeMaster and Range USA. Drive by both on a Saturday or Sunday. Tell me which one you think has the best customer service and repeat business. Every range has it's counter commandos, but I've shot at RangeMaster 4 times and never had a good experience.

[Guest bluecanary25]

Wow. Still reading.......

[bullrider]

First, I don't care how good the range or the instructor is, there is no need for anyone to have to tolerate that sort of treatment.

Second, I have a Bersa Ultra Compact Thunder 9 and carry it everywhere I go. I hit what I aim it at and it always goes bang.

Last, tell her to come home to Gallatin. You have a great facility right up the road from you in Green Brier, Guns and Leather.

[Guest mikedwood]

I'm just curious now. I'd like to see the list of guns as well and also if there are any other criteria.

There are ways to phrase "Your gun sucks out loud" and have it come across as not so a holish but in the gun world tact is much less important than tactics.

I have taken my HCP as well as helped out with a few.

My concern isn't usually the type of gun but in a few cases the lack of care the firearm has had in the last 5 -30 and in one case maybe a 100 years. Proper oiling of a lot of nice handguns can mean the difference between it working correctly or not.

Or and usually it's older ladies whose husband in the best of faith and greatest of heart has let her use one of his trusty revolvers with 12 or more pounds of trigger pull which can be a problem for some elderly ladies. So it may sound like a great gun to you or me but it's not gonna work for her.

I think it's a very good policy for any HCP class to have a couple of good quality well maintained .22 semis around for such cases and a couple hundred rounds.

As for gun snobbery I know there are certain brands I have learned to stay away from personally but they seem to work for others. and certain brands I love that others hate (yeah I mean Glocks, Sigs and my new found love of Ruger Security Sixes)

Edited February 1, 2011 by mikedwood

[Lumber_Jack]

and certain brands I love that others hate (yeah I mean Glocks, Sigs and my new found love of Ruger Security Sixes)

How could you hate the Security Six???

[Guest Aces&8s]

I find it interesting that a place would have a policy that would prohibit someone from using their Bersa that may have performed flawlessly for a period of years, while allowing someone to use a NIB Kimber that might be lucky to get ten rounds downrange without binding up. As Mikedwood said, it is as much about how the gun has been cared for than what brand it is. This is a handgun carry permit class, not a gun show... if a person's gun jams on the line, they clear it and continue (which in my opinion they should be able to do if they are planning on carrying a gun, anyway); if it cannot be cleared in a reasonable time period, they bow out and come back another day when they are more familiar with their weapon.

I bet if I had a dollar for everyone who successfully completed their TN HCP class with a Bersa (or other "prohibited brand"), I might be able to afford a Kimber

[jaysouth]

Can you provide contact infor for this place?

[lowbud]

I took my test with a Bersa Model 85.... Tell them to pound sand and go elsewhere.

[laktrash]

Took mine with bersa uc 45 Instructor had never seen one but liked it. range manager was familiar with them and said they were good guns.

[Punisher84]

Can you provide contact infor for this place?

www.rangemaster.com