Can't use Bersa for HCP test

[Guest Knightsr25]

Gee all the Kimber/1911 bashing on here is saddening. I have carried a custom Kimber since they came out. Many thousands of rounds with ammo from at least 6 manufacturers and as far back as WWII vintage, even mixed in the same mags. Never a failure of any kind,nada, zip, not one. I cant say that about any other auto handgu I have owned. And the Guns and Ammo bashing is sad too, I bought over three hundred (300) guns there when Burt was running the place, I guess with Richard in charge it took on his attitude. Just sad.

[Punisher84]

Gee all the Kimber/1911 bashing on here is saddening. I have carried a custom Kimber since they came out. Many thousands of rounds with ammo from at least 6 manufacturers and as far back as WWII vintage, even mixed in the same mags. Never a failure of any kind,nada, zip, not one. I cant say that about any other auto handgu I have owned. And the Guns and Ammo bashing is sad too, I bought over three hundred (300) guns there when Burt was running the place, I guess with Richard in charge it took on his attitude. Just sad.

I've had good luck with my Kimber after some tweaks, but I know several who haven't. Guns and Ammo, however, can suck it.

[kieefer]

I took my HCP class at Mt. Juliet PD. Was a great experience!! Tell her to check it out....

$50.00 is a deal for local Wilson Co. residents and $100. for out of county. Thanks for the tip.

HCP in M.T.

[Guest TheMikeLurie]

I have read through this entire thread and the only talking point I would raise that I haven't seen anyone else mention yet, is that experiencing a malfunction on the range while taking your permit class could actually be a good thing and a teaching opportunity. Especially if, and assuming good instructors do, teach the class about malfunctions prior to entering the range area.

It's not difficult, and it doesn't take a lot of time to instruct shooters on what to do when they experience a failure, and in fact it should be mandatory. I understand that these permit classes are not "shooting" classes and are only meant to inform potential permit carriers on the laws, reciprocity and standards of carry. But there is a fine line between learning to carry and learning to shoot. And while they don't have to delve into the world of shooting, they do already discuss sight picture and sight alignment. They already do discuss some elements of shooting, so I wouldn't think it would be difficult or time consuming to touch on malfunctions, especially seeing as you are about to enter the range area and it can happen regardless of what pistol you are using.

As for Bersa, Kimber or any of the other brands that have been mentioned, I really can't comment. I have never owned or shot either Bersa or Kimber. I will say that I have a hard time accepting the fact that ANY brand would be off limits at a permit class. Many people have mentioned that if this is the pistol you are comfortable with and the pistol you will be carrying, you should be allowed to take your exam with it. And if a range is going to blacklist Bersa or Kimber, then they might as well blacklist Taurus, Hi Point, Armalite and even Kel Tec. Just go on record and say Glock, S&W, Beretta, Sig Sauer and H&K is all you will allow. Of course, no intelligent range would do that as they would lose a ton of business and a ton of money.

As for the "friendliness" and demeanor of the shop staff, I will agree with those that have mentioned this needs to improve in many shops and ranges that I have been to. But also agree with the poster that said (paraphrasing) that if he refused to patronize every shop that was "rude" he would have no place to shop or shoot. Sometimes you just have to chalk things up to humans being human and move on.

But I did find one quote fascinating. This came from Steelharp on page 4 of this thread:

You would be inclined to understand... somewhat... if you heard some of these vendors gripe about the guys that just come in to hang out just to get away from the wife, chores, etc., with no intention of buying anything. That takes time away from the potential buying customer that walks in

That's a really good point. And I can understand (somewhat) what some of these guys are going through. We have all been to a shop or range where people are wanting desperately to engage in a deep philosophical conversation about guns with the staff and it does take away from the customer service they might be offering to real paying customers. I understand completely if some of these guys already have a preconceived opinion of some of the "talkers" that come into the shop. That's not a defense of their attitude, because they really need to put a smile on and be a customer service professional regardless of how jaded they might be about gun enthusiasts who just come in to talk... but it does shed some light on what might be going through their head.

with that said, I will add this: When I first started shooting, I purchased a Diamondback .380 and I had some issues with the gun at first, before it was broken in. One of the first places i went for advice was the Outpost Armory in Murfreesboro. The gentleman working there was terrific. Despite the fact that I did not purchase the pistol there, he field stripped it in front of me and spent about 20 minutes talking to me about how to properly break in the pistol and gave me some tips on getting it right. He didn't have to do that. And I left the shop that day without purchasing anything... but because of his willingness to help a new gun owner, i now go there for all of my ammo, holsters, accessories, Maxpedition bags and anything else they sell. I am even willing (usually) to pay a little more if it means giving those guys my business.

Sometimes being a good customer service agent pays off. If not in the short term, in the long term. And Outpost Armory is proof of that.

[DRM]

I took my test with a Bersa Model 85.... Tell them to pound sand and go elsewhere.

As did my wife... without a single failure - mechanical or otherwise.

[tnhawk]

Gee all the Kimber/1911 bashing on here is saddening. I have carried a custom Kimber since they came out. Many thousands of rounds with ammo from at least 6 manufacturers and as far back as WWII vintage, even mixed in the same mags. Never a failure of any kind,nada, zip, not one. I cant say that about any other auto handgu I have owned. And the Guns and Ammo bashing is sad too, I bought over three hundred (300) guns there when Burt was running the place, I guess with Richard in charge it took on his attitude. Just sad.

My Kimber and other 1911s have been reliable, trouble free pistols. The glock and XDs I own are similar in reliability.

I'm in Guns and Ammo frequently and haven't seen any reason not to continue doing business with them. The employees have always been polite and professional in their attitudes from my viewpoint.

[Guest eshelton]

I live literally about a mile and half from Range Master and will drive 20 minutes to Range USA just because of the attitude of the people at Range Master. I actually used my Bersa Thunder 380 to qualify at Range USA. It shouldn't matter what handgun is used as long as the shooter can handle it properly. I didn't read every post in the thread so not sure if she has completed her test or not but if she hasn't tell her to check out Range USA, their in Bartlett, TN

[East_TN_Patriot]

Gee all the Kimber/1911 bashing on here is saddening. I have carried a custom Kimber since they came out. Many thousands of rounds with ammo from at least 6 manufacturers and as far back as WWII vintage, even mixed in the same mags. Never a failure of any kind,nada, zip, not one. I cant say that about any other auto handgu I have owned. And the Guns and Ammo bashing is sad too, I bought over three hundred (300) guns there when Burt was running the place, I guess with Richard in charge it took on his attitude. Just sad.

Kind of like all the Bersa bashing that goes on. Seems like the pot calling the kettle black. Simple fact is that most firearms in production now are generally of decent quality and will perform as expected when they are properly maintained. All manufacturers have poor designs and/or produce dud guns on occasion. Funny thing is that the 1911 people even do it to 1911s. If you don't have a $1000 specimen, your 1911 is a piece of garbage (as if the classic 1911 mil-spec of the early 20th century had any of the polish and custom work that goes into today's high-end 1911s, but a modern production mil-spec is snubbed while the period mil-spec is revered). I've heard 1911 owners bash Kimber for some of the same reasons that people bash Taurus 1911s because of MIM parts and poor finish.

I personally think that Kimber makes a fine 1911, but I wouldn't trust it as a carry gun because I have personally seen more than one that was so tight that they become jam-o-matics after a handful rounds. Glock owners can be a breed in themselves as well (and I own a Glock). I had a Kahr MK9 that was a piece of junk. I had a NIB Colt revolver that was a piece of junk. When people snub a particular firearm brand, even one that has a good overall reputation, just because of price, it's just ignorant.

[BlackHawk93]

Seems to me that Rangemasters is taking the wrong route on this one. If they have had so many issues with Bersa's in their class or at their range, then why not take that failure and incorporate it into the teaching of the class? Like in how to properly clear a jam or failure? I remember my class discussing how to identify the failures and how to properly handle them, and actually having one happen would be a good learning experience. The other excuses are simply hogwash to me, and if their time is so to the minute then they need to add a buffer, as someone else suggested. Ultimately, the satisfaction of the customer, and not the personnel having to deal with a failure, should be number 1. Also, the law says that an individual with an HCP may carry whatever handgun they own. So if in fact they used this so called POS and a failure happened, then it would be a second good teaching point. Mr. Givens needs to get his house in order sounds like to me. Go somewhere else. Just my 2cents.

Edited February 14, 2011 by BlackHawk93

[Links2k]

I've heard that before about Rangemasters. Tell her to go to Top Brass in Millington. Those guys will take care of her.

Top Brass is a good place to train when they turn on the exhaust fans on the range. I have been there a couple of times and they did not appear to be on.

Chris is a good guy and very helpful, but there is a young guy there that is very short and rude at times. I figured he was the owners kid or something and ignored him.

[Links2k]

Gee all the Kimber/1911 bashing on here is saddening. I have carried a custom Kimber since they came out. Many thousands of rounds with ammo from at least 6 manufacturers and as far back as WWII vintage, even mixed in the same mags. Never a failure of any kind,nada, zip, not one. I cant say that about any other auto handgu I have owned. And the Guns and Ammo bashing is sad too, I bought over three hundred (300) guns there when Burt was running the place, I guess with Richard in charge it took on his attitude. Just sad.

Worst experience in the world when you want to spend your money on a gun, but unless you don't mind waiting for someone else to order a gun for you G&A is it in and around Memphis. Maybe one of the east Tn vendors will open up a store in Memphis and stock it with what people are looking for and make the customer feel welcome.

[Links2k]

Guns and Ammo, however, can suck it.

I agree, but it was nice being able to walk into that building and see, touch and buy almost any gun you wanted when you wanted it.

[Links2k]

My Kimber and other 1911s have been reliable, trouble free pistols. The glock and XDs I own are similar in reliability.

I'm in Guns and Ammo frequently and haven't seen any reason not to continue doing business with them. The employees have always been polite and professional in their attitudes from my viewpoint.

I have been in there frequently and the only person that is remotely customer friendly is the big young guy (looks to be in 30's or early 40's...Brian maybe?). Hell, even the gunsmith is grouchy.

I don't expect to have my behind kissed, but I would like to feel that you are happy that I choose to spend my hard earned dollars in your place of business.

TGO has been a blessing for buying and selling guns. I get to buy/sell at good prices and meet good people at the same time. And if I am not careful I actually learn a thing or two.

Edited February 14, 2011 by LINKS2K

[Curiousgb]

I have been in there frequently and the only person that is remotely customer friendly is the big young guy (looks to be in 30's or early 40's...Brian maybe?). Hell, even the gunsmith is grouchy.

I don't expect to have my behind kissed, but I would like to feel that you are happy that I choose to spend my hard earned dollars in your place of business.

TGO has been a blessing for buying and selling guns. I get to buy/sell at good prices and meet good people at the same time. And if I am not careful I actually learn a thing or two.

I agree. Brian is friendly and the Smith is a grouch. I was in there once and a call came in one of the guys answered it on a cordless phone. You could tell he didn't want to talk to whoever was on the phone. When he hung up he started ranting about the caller, "What does he thing I am, yada, yada, he should just come down here and look. I don't have time for this (*&." I was stunned.

[Guest Blown4v]

I have been in guns and ammo several times in the last 2 months buying AR stuff and figuring out which pistol I want, and they are always nice to me and i havent seen a bad attitude yet, towards me.

[Links2k]

I don't like them, but they are smart by pricing their weapons low enough to match what you would pay on the internet plus transfer fees. Makes buying most guns online obsolete when you don't have to wait and can actually handle the gun before you buy it.

I revert to my military mindset when I walk in the door. I don't have to like what's happening around me. I just carry on with my mission (buying a new family member).

As for Rangemaster, I had some issues and concerns based upon my two visits there. I have decided that I will deal with whatever I have to deal with when the time comes that I seek training from their cadre. I have recently had some conversations with a friend who teaches Krav Maga and in turn he spoke with some people and the conclusion that we came up with is that Mr. Givens is the real deal and it should be a previledge to learn what he can teach you if you want to be a serious defender. After all that is our goal. We seek to be able to properly defend not only ourselves, but more importantly those that we love. I for one can check my ego and panties at the door in order to do that.