Can't use Bersa for HCP test

[Sams Dad]

My daughter just turned 25 and I bought her a new Bersa 9 UC for her birthday. She has taken to the range like a duck in water, shooting grapefruit sized groups at 15 yards. She loves the new gun. I and my wife own three Bersa's and have put thousands of rounds collectively through them without a hitch. So the daughter has been shooting and studying for the HCP test. She lives in Memphis and looking for a range there. Today she and her husband go down to Rangemasters to fire a hundred rounds and talk to them about an HCP class for her. I will quote her, " The guy was an overall arrogant jerk" ( whomever "the guy" was)and "he told me there was no way I could use a Bersa for my range test because some other girl had used one and it failed or malfunctioned during her test". They don't allow Bersa's in their classes. What's up with that??? Bersa's are not Kimber's or Colt's, I understand that, however, I read great reviews on them for going bang for a long time, all over the net and in every gun shop I visit.

[Steelharp]

Tell her to go somewhere else. Come home here and take it.

[East_TN_Patriot]

That's totally stupid for someone to say that. I have owned everything from a Bersa or Kel Tec to high-end guns like Kimber, Sig, and H&K. Virtually every gun I have owned had at least one malfunction at some point either due to a bad round, a broken part, a bad magazine, or something similar. I had a buddy who was all excited to show me his Kimber and it literally jammed every other round. Once he soaked the rails in Break Free, it was a little more reliable. Frankly, I wouldn't want to take an HCP class from someone as ignorant as that.

[Oh Shoot]

Screw that place.

There are beau coup other places to do it.

Be sure to find out who the owner is there and write a note AFTER you've spent the $$ elsewhere.

- OS

[Garufa]

Bersa's are excellent pistols. Advise her to take her business elsewhere and screw rangemaster.

I hear good things about Range USA out off Whitten Rd.

Edited January 30, 2011 by Garufa

[Mike.357]

she should ask to speak to whoever run the show there. The person she was dealing with is obviously an asshat.

Aside from that, how does one study for their HCP class? Freaking Stevie Wonder could pass the shooting part, and a halfwit could pass the classroom part.

[Sams Dad]

Well I don't want to bash the Business as it may have been the rude individual she spoke with and not the establishment, however, I advised her to take her money elsewhere, or as Steelharp also advised, come home on a weekend and take it here.

[Wingshooter]

Yeah, she should go somewhere else. She wants a good experience when she gets her HCP, and it sounds like that place has some misconceptions.

Edited January 30, 2011 by Batman

[I_Like_Pie]

Go somewhere else if that is what they said. You don't want an overly opinionated instructor.

[Parrothead]

i would be afraid to take a class with personnel like that. If they are that "off base" how can you expect them to provide you with carry laws without inserting personal opinions.

[Guest gw2and4]

Go somewhere else if that is what they said. You don't want an overly opinionated instructor.

i would be afraid to take a class with personnel like that. If they are that "off base" how can you expect them to provide you with carry laws without inserting personal opinions.

+1.

[Guest Tom Givens]

It's amazing the reactions some of you guys have when someone says something negative about your chosen handgun. You get way too emotionally invested in what is essentially just a tool. Nobody said your child is ugly or stupid. I taught an advanced class this morning and was gone later in the day, so it wasn't me the complainant spoke with, but I really doubt the staff person she spoke with was rude or an asshat. He probably tried to explain why we don't use Bersa's in class.

Our staff sees about a million rounds go downrange every year, and have for 15 years. That is way more opportunity to see how various brands work/hold up than any individual shooter will ever see. People bring in Bersa pistols to shoot fairly frequently when the range is available to the public. We VERY often have to go out and show them how to clear repeated malfunctions or explain what happened when the gun broke, as in a part breaks. We have a Bersa in the classroom donated by a student because the front of the slide broke off and fell on the bench on the 7th shot out of a new gun.

In class, we have 20 students shooting and a schedule to keep, so when people show up with a Bersa or other gun with a similar track record, we loan them a gun of ours and supply the ammo for it, at no charge. If, after the class, they want to carry the (insert whatever brand here) they are free to do so, but by loaning them a better gun we avoid tying up class time repeatedly fixing guns that don't work. That makes the experience better for all the other students in that class. That's not being an asshat.

Once you get your HCP, carry whatever you like.

[7dogguy]

+1 on the OPs saying have her go elsewhere (or come home). And also to not ever support that place.

[Mike.357]

Tom while I can see you plite, A HCP class involves what? 48 rounds. I do not see how a malfunction or two or none from a specific brand of gun causes problems.

How many hours of the class for a permit are classroom? How many are range? Are you telling me that a Bersa sets your class behind schedule on range time to shoot 48 rounds? Seriously? Does your school follow state guidelines on the mandated range time for a class?

i took a class from the Knox County Sheriffs Dept. They did not care what kind of gun a person chose to take the class with, and there were at least double in my class what you had in yours.

i do not own a Bersa so i have no attachment to the gun. But in all honesty not allowing the use of a Bersa in a class sounds like gun snobbery. Do you allow Hi Points? Maybe you should publish a list of guns that are approved for use in your classes.

Edited January 30, 2011 by Mike.357

[Wingshooter]

It's amazing the reactions some of you guys have when someone says something negative about your chosen handgun. You get way too emotionally invested in what is essentially just a tool. Nobody said your child is ugly or stupid. I taught an advanced class this morning and was gone later in the day, so it wasn't me the complainant spoke with, but I really doubt the staff person she spoke with was rude or an asshat. He probably tried to explain why we don't use Bersa's in class.

Our staff sees about a million rounds go downrange every year, and have for 15 years. That is way more opportunity to see how various brands work/hold up than any individual shooter will ever see. People bring in Bersa pistols to shoot fairly frequently when the range is available to the public. We VERY often have to go out and show them how to clear repeated malfunctions or explain what happened when the gun broke, as in a part breaks. We have a Bersa in the classroom donated by a student because the front of the slide broke off and fell on the bench on the 7th shot out of a new gun.

In class, we have 20 students shooting and a schedule to keep, so when people show up with a Bersa or other gun with a similar track record, we loan them a gun of ours and supply the ammo for it, at no charge. If, after the class, they want to carry the (insert whatever brand here) they are free to do so, but by loaning them a better gun we avoid tying up class time repeatedly fixing guns that don't work. That makes the experience better for all the other students in that class. That's not being an asshat.

Once you get your HCP, carry whatever you like.

Just curious what other guns are on the list.

[Steelharp]

I believe Mr. Givens has explained their side of the story clearly, and has shed a much needed light on the situation. I applaud you for speaking, sir. Hopefully you can get this resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

[Erik88]

but I really doubt the staff person she spoke with was rude or an asshat. He probably tried to explain why we don't use Bersa's in class.

.

There is always 2 sides to every story. That being said, there always seems to be a huge amount of denial when a gun store, or store employee, gets flamed here on TGO. It's as if there is no possible way an employee could ever be rude to a customer. I'm not saying that's the case because I wasn't there. I just think it's odd that when this happens over and over.

[kesava]

There are indeed two sides to every story. So either the clerk didn't mention the loaner program or the complainant took offense early and allowed it to go one ear and out the other. I am sure they see many malfunctions between all kinds of brands. I haven't heard anything (internet, buddies, and my own bersa) that would warrant a ban. At least, not so much than any other gun. I have actually heard more bad things about Taurus (which has run FLAWLESS) than besra (my first handgun, and still have it with zero failures).

People will get offended when you turn away their gun brand. It's something that they trust their life to. Something they have complete and total faith in. Be careful.

[Rightwinger]

Well I'm sure the don't sell them in their showroom either...

Right?

[Loon160T]

Had a Kimber once (definitely not a low-end firearm) that had FTE/FTF about every two or three rounds.

Moral of this thread really should be: Be sure of your equipment before attending any class or trusting any firearm with your life.

[JC57]

I've never had any problems with any of my Bersas so far - two of the 380s and a 45 Ultra Compact Pro.

I have no personal experience with Rangemaster, and they may be a fine facility.

I took my HCP class out at Range USA on Whitten Rd. in Memphis last year and it was a very positive experience. I don't recall them mentioning that they limited the brands of firearms you could use, other than it needed to be able to fire 5 rounds. I used my Glock 22 because at the time I hadnt yet purchased my first Bersa.

They have a good web site if you want to look them up to contact them. Just Google for "Range USA."

[Guest Tnbusarider]

When I took my HCP class there were several Bersa's, one woman used a Bauer .25 acp, and there were a lot of Highpoints!! The person she spoke to was a gun snob! Any gun is better than a knife! Find a new class, and report the instructor!

[Sams Dad]

I have worked in Engineering/Machining/Tooling all my life and believe me I have seen mechanical failure. I do and can, recognize and or test for design and quality issues of all types. I have been over all three of my own Bersas as well as hers with a fine tooth comb. ( yep I broke out the mic's and calipers for starters). The day we bought this we did a thorough cleaning and put 300 rounds down the tube. Why???, To insure my daughter did not leave here with a quality issue to deal with.

Every company has quality issues. That is why they all carry liability insurance and have warranty programs. Heck with that type of narrow minded thought process, we would not have any pharmaceuticals to purchase, no cars to drive, etc. I think based on that mode of thinking we should ban anyone from taking a drivers license test in a Toyota , They have had recalls you know......... With that being said and now my laundry has been aired, We'll put this one to rest with no particular hard feelings. I am sure they have a great business and can do without one more HCP participant. After all, how fair would it be to form an opinion about this range for one malfunction.

[lowery100]

Let me speak-up on behalf of Rangemaster. I am not affiliated with them, however, I took my HCP instructors course with them this past summer. Tom Givens is one of the most knowledgeable instructors I have dealt with. I would put his instructor staff up against any in the country. He and they took my skill as a shooter and instructor to a new level that I did not think possible. Coming in as an infantry Marine(0311) and rifle line coach, I did not expect to learn much and I was sorely mistaken. As part of the instructors course, we were familiarized and shot with a number of "lower" quality firearms. Tom and his staff have a lot of experience with these firearms and I will defer to them when they have seen an inordinate amount of failures in a particular firearm. I will not argue that a particular employee may have come off as unpleasant, some one could have had a bad day, their statement taken wrong or out of context, I don't know. However, I do know you will not receive a better and more informative HCP class. As a matter of fact, even though I can teach and certify my wife, we/she will be going down this spring or summer to have her go through Tom's wife class to get her permit. She and another female instructor will shame most male shooters.

[mav]

I can understand both sides to this issue. But, if the range is willing to supply an alternative gun with ammo at no charge, I don't see what the problem is. Take the free ammo and go pass the test.